Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[letsbefriends]

The pics of Mig 35 that I posted recently even shows that the Mig 35 seems to be just a landbased version of the Mig 29K and the Russians don't develop a real new airframe for it. Regarding ground attack capabilities, I think that depends on what you see as considerable.
A payload of around 6t on 9 weapon stations only (one will be occupied by the targeting pod), some stand off missiles, but only 500 Kg KAB bombs cleared so far is very limited imo, especially in comparison with the US fighters, their weapon packs as well as the Rafale and its capabilities in this field.
The Mig 29K was a fast, cheap and partly even forced deal, which will serve the need of IN at the moment, but it is not comparable with carrier fighters like F18Sh, or Rafale. IAF has even more options which can outclass the Mig, so the chances are even lower here.



Actually there are only to export orders for the EF (Austria and Saudi Arabia), with a total number of 89 fighters, all other EFs will only be produced for the consortium members and there is a reason why it was out of several competitions very early, because it is behind in development and wasn't comparable in multi role capabilities yet.
No doubt about that, in A2A it is at the moment the best fighter behind the F22, but we are not looking for another air superiority fighter, we need real multi role fighters.


If they can't even start the production by then, how do you expect us to build it under licence? Only if they start the production line, they can show us how to do it in India too and especially the radar will need some more time to be mature and ready for serial production.


As I said, there is no development to join anymore and it's export chances are very low. The time of this Mig is over, that's why not even Russia don't buys them, Russian navy buys less Mig 29K the IN, which says much about it don't you think?

i agree on that though..but again we cannot rule out manuverability and agility coz in case of war PAF jeys can reach india by in 3 to 5 minutes n PLAAF can reach himachal i 4 chd in 6 n delhi in 14 to 16 min approx.so we cannot rule dogfighting out n f 18 is not the best aircraft for dogfightng,gripen has lesser range n payload and rafale hasnt been ordered by any air force so its development is in doubt,may be f 16 is better but again a 30 yr old platform n with SH we will get a 20 yr old platform with no development..jst a thought..again i m no expert and seriously thiere is a lot of dilemma among us..wonder what is goin on among the minds of real decision makers

sorry if i have offended u though..no hard feelings letsbefriends

 

[sancho]

i agree on that though..but again we cannot rule out manuverability and agility coz in case of war PAF jeys can reach india by in 3 to 5 minutes n PLAAF can reach himachal i 4 chd in 6 n delhi in 14 to 16 min approx.so we cannot rule dogfighting out n f 18 is not the best aircraft for dogfightng,gripen has lesser range n payload and rafale hasnt been ordered by any air force so its development is in doubt,may be f 16 is better but again a 30 yr old platform n with SH we will get a 20 yr old platform with no development..jst a thought..again i m no expert and seriously thiere is a lot of dilemma among us..wonder what is goin on among the minds of real decision makers

sorry if i have offended u though..no hard feelings letsbefriends

Of course every fighter has it's disadvantages, that's why IAF will go for the one with the least and that suits the best to the present fleet, but the Mig has clearly more disadvantages.
The problem for us is, that we don't know the actual requirements of IAF/MoD and that we don't have the actual specs of the fighters, so most we can do is make a guess and speculate on it.

You didn't offended me, don't worry about it! We just have different opinions, that's all.

 

[sancho]

This piece of information will set this thread buzzing for sure.

The Gripen Ds did sensationally in their tests when they were in India recently. The D restarted and took off from Leh with a loadout of 2.6 tonnes which included air to air missiles and underwing fuel tanks. The heat test went off very well in Jaisalmer. It meant placing the aircraft in the sun for a designated period of time, firing her up and flying her at maximum speed at low altitude while checking out all the systems. They also dropped a bomb flying out of Jaisalmer. They also did tanking ops.

And ... no need to hold your breath any longer ... the Demo will be here in mid May and will likely do the Leh trip again and anything that the Indian Air Force requests. They were earlier unable to bring in the Demonstrator because of tasking with the Swedish Air Force which happened at exactly the same time that they were supposed to come to India.

Indian Air Force pilots travel to Sweden in the next few days. They are free to fly the Demo there if they want though they will be firing an AMRAAM off a D platform.

That is interesting, so Saab made now mainly the weapon trials and not the real flight trials, but that will delay the whole for another month and I wonder how the other vendors will react about this.

 

[sudhir007]

This piece of information will set this thread buzzing for sure.

The Gripen Ds did sensationally in their tests when they were in India recently. The D restarted and took off from Leh with a loadout of 2.6 tonnes which included air to air missiles and underwing fuel tanks. The heat test went off very well in Jaisalmer. It meant placing the aircraft in the sun for a designated period of time, firing her up and flying her at maximum speed at low altitude while checking out all the systems. They also dropped a bomb flying out of Jaisalmer. They also did tanking ops.

And ... no need to hold your breath any longer ... the Demo will be here in mid May and will likely do the Leh trip again and anything that the Indian Air Force requests. They were earlier unable to bring in the Demonstrator because of tasking with the Swedish Air Force which happened at exactly the same time that they were supposed to come to India.

Indian Air Force pilots travel to Sweden in the next few days. They are free to fly the Demo there if they want though they will be firing an AMRAAM off a D platform.

My sources tell me that Indian Air Force pilots loved the jet while it was here, particularly its man-machine interface and the intuitive nature of the setup ...

Please note the following riders to this post:

1. I do not endorse any of the MMRCA competitors.
2. I sincerely hope the Indian Air Force gets the plane it wants and the decision is NOT a political one.
3. I am not aware of the performances of the other competitors though I have NOTHING to suggest that they have done badly.

Vishnu Som
Associate Editor and Senior News Anchor
NDTV

He is one of the respected Defence reporter
He posted this on BR forum also
He is the one who Posted first pictures of LCH on NDTV website and then others followed
He also did -Jet Set go episode on NDTV flying all MRCA aircrafts
He was the one who went to Red Flag Exercise.

here is his profile - NDTV Social: Vishnu Som

I also back this machine look at previous two pages of this forum i have fully supported Gripen .
I saw it during Aero-india show it was my first Crush, same was case with my batch-mates who are in IAF ( sad i got Army but still proud of my job)

from this point i think F-18 have better chance coze it also use same engine and may be engine deal for lca go for ge414. and also lca use the ge404(which also got successful trail in leh ) which is a earlier model of ge414. GE414 use us marine version of f-18 it mean it will easlly pass salty water test for IN. which i dnt think ej200 have.

 

[Mahakaya]

Gripen NG Demo To Land In Bangalore Mid-May!

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Gripen NG Demo To Land In Bangalore Mid-May!

Damn this baby looks sweeeet!!!

With the IAF waiting for this slick machine, it looks like the Gripen will be in the top 3-4 shortlisted.

Oh Hell - Its so hard to predict whats going to happen! The wait is killing me!

 

[manish123]

Gripen NG Demo To Land In Bangalore Mid-May!

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Gripen NG Demo To Land In Bangalore Mid-May!

Damn this baby looks sweeeet!!!

With the IAF waiting for this slick machine, it looks like the Gripen will be in the top 3-4 shortlisted.

Oh Hell - Its so hard to predict whats going to happen! The wait is killing me!

Correct this nautanki should end now and our LCA is suffering bcause of EJ200 not being ordered.

 

[thebrownguy]

Correct this nautanki should end now and our LCA is suffering bcause of EJ200 not being ordered.

I second that.

 

[Mahakaya]

Correct this nautanki should end now and our LCA is suffering bcause of EJ200 not being ordered.

OHHHH YESSS!!!!

OHHHHHHHH YESSSSS!

Feel the MIGHT BROTHERS! FEEEEEEEEL THE MIGHT!!!

De Shiva var Aiso mohe, subh Karman te Kabhu na Daron, Na daro ar so sab Jaye Lado Nische Kar Apni Jeet Karon


HAR HAR MAHADEV!!!!!!!!!



Oh TERI THAN HOR LA.......



OH WADIYA BEERE - KHUSH KITA YI!

 

[Mahakaya]

CHAL BALIYE CHAL CHALIYE HUN SOYIE - MAFI TO ANYONE WHO FELT BAD FOR THE UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE!

GOOD NIGHT BROTHERS-JUST HAD SOME FOR THE NIGHT AND THE ROAD!

 

[KEETARP]

Air Force gives Gripen fighter a second chance​

Ajai Shukla / New Delhi April 03, 2010, 0:55 IST

Sweden’s futuristic medium fighter, the Gripen NG, has been given a second chance in the $11 billion contest to select a Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF). The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has asked Gripen International, which last month failed to send the Gripen NG fighter for trials in India on the dates allotted by the IAF, to send the fighter for trials in the middle of May.

Business Standard had reported, on March 9, that Gripen International had sent older Gripen-D fighters for trials because the Gripen NG was held back in Sweden for improvements for the Swedish Air Force. Technically, that was a violation of the terms of the competition.

But senior IAF officers have told Business Standard that they would not allow a legalistic interpretation of rules to narrow their options. Explains a senior air marshal who is involved in the decision-making, “We have a time window until the middle of this year, during which each of the six fighters in the tender are undergoing three stages of trials and inspections. As long as the Gripen NG is ready for trials within that period, we will evaluate the aircraft. All six vendors will have a level-playing field”.

Besides the Gripen NG, the other fighters being evaluated by the IAF are — the F/A-18 Super Hornet; the F-16IN Super Viper; the Dassault Rafale; the Eurofighter Typhoon; and the MiG-35. While all but the MiG-35 are already in service, the Gripen NG is still under development. Just a single ‘demonstrator’ aircraft has been built to prove its capabilities. Next year, Gripen will build the first Gripen NG prototype.

Gripen International has welcomed the MoD’s decision. Gripen’s India campaign head, Eddy de la Motte, told Business Standard, “Our plan was always to bring the (Gripen NG) demonstrator to India. The Swedish government’s sudden tasking is being completed right now. We will soon be ready to go to India and we will provide the IAF with maximum opportunity to evaluate the fighter”.

The first of these opportunities will come next week, when an IAF team travels to Sweden to evaluate the Gripen’s firing of a ‘Beyond Visual Range’ air-to-air missile. It is learnt that Gripen International will make the Gripen NG demonstrator available to IAF pilots, if they wish to fly it in Sweden next week. If the IAF accepts the offer, it will be the first time an Indian pilot flies the Gripen NG, albeit with a Swedish ‘safety pilot’ in the rear cockpit.

While Gripen International expresses confidence in their fighter, it now faces trials in conditions hotter (and, therefore, more unfavourable) than all the other contenders. IAF sources reveal that the Gripen-D performed well in last month’s trials; despite that, the Gripen NG will be put through a full battery of tests, including high altitude testing in Ladakh.

The Gripen NG is significantly more capable than the Gripen-D. It has a more powerful GE-414 engine; it carries more fuel and, therefore, has greater range; and, with 10 hard points for weaponry, the Gripen NG has extra teeth. It will also come with a new AESA radar, electronic warfare equipment, and upgraded avionics.

Senior IAF officers, while happy with these features, also highlight the Gripen NG’s downside: A high level of US electronics, weaponry, and the GE-414 engine. And, the F-16IN and the Gripen NG are the only two single-engine aircraft in the contest, which places them at a disadvantage in terms of reliability.

Air Force gives Gripen fighter a second chance

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/04/air-force-gives-gripen-fighter-second.html

Looks like IAF will closely look,scrutinise at all aspects and then decide which is best of them .
True professionalism has been kept in trials which i doubted at start of trial and i thought it will be influenced by politics but hats off to IAF , they certainly did better than Brazil and President .
i am sure aircraft with best equipment will land in hands of IAF if they are ready to sacrifice time and wait one more month for trials to end.
Gripen clearing LEH trials just demonstrate that - A modern and Robust airframe design (Low drag, composites) simply can not be out-gunned by politics/price. Brazil is a ver good example - Even though President went all guns blazing against anti - rafale jets , still in technical evaluation Gripen came on top as first choice of pilots .
IAF loves them- i personally saw its simulator at aero-india and Buzz it created (same was case at defexpo - damn i missed it )
Infact all pilots who have flown them love it- must be something special, no doubt Gripen is a superb machine .

A blog for all Indian Gripen lovers and followers - Enjoy it ( has extensive effort and hard work put in from 2009 for gripen followers).

http://www.gripenindia.com/

 

[ranveer]

OHHHH YESSS!!!!

OHHHHHHHH YESSSSS!

Feel the MIGHT BROTHERS! FEEEEEEEEL THE MIGHT!!!

De Shiva var Aiso mohe, subh Karman te Kabhu na Daron, Na daro ar so sab Jaye Lado Nische Kar Apni Jeet Karon


HAR HAR MAHADEV!!!!!!!!!



Oh TERI THAN HOR LA.......



OH WADIYA BEERE - KHUSH KITA YI!

Dear Mahakaya,,,
Please it is GURBANI,,, utmost respect with full shabad and exact meanings. Shiva is a similie used for god and not exactly Shivji is referred....

Deh Shiva bar mohe ihai Grant me this boon O God
shubh karman the kabhu na taroo May I never refrain from the
righteous acts;
Na daroo ar siyoo jab jah laroon May I fight without fear all foes
in life's battles
Nischai kar apni jeet koroo With confident courage claiming
the victory!
Ar Sikh hao apne hi mum ko May thy glory be grained in my
mind,
Eh lalch hou guna tau uchroo and my highest ambition be
singing thy praises;
Jab aav ki audh nidhann nanay When this mortal life comes to
end,
Aut he rann me tab joojh maroo May I die fighting with limitless
courage

No offence...

 

[Mahakaya]

Dear Mahakaya,,,
Please it is GURBANI,,, utmost respect with full shabad and exact meanings. Shiva is a similie used for god and not exactly Shivji is referred....

Deh Shiva bar mohe ihai Grant me this boon O God
shubh karman the kabhu na taroo May I never refrain from the
righteous acts;
Na daroo ar siyoo jab jah laroon May I fight without fear all foes
in life's battles
Nischai kar apni jeet koroo With confident courage claiming
the victory!
Ar Sikh hao apne hi mum ko May thy glory be grained in my
mind,
Eh lalch hou guna tau uchroo and my highest ambition be
singing thy praises;
Jab aav ki audh nidhann nanay When this mortal life comes to
end,
Aut he rann me tab joojh maroo May I die fighting with limitless
courage

No offence...

Dear Ranveer - I know - I am also Jatt!

As for using it as a similie for God, I doubt that. Further,many Gurbanis feature the name of Ram as well.

 

[ranveer]

Dear Ranveer - I know - I am also Jatt!

As for using it as a similie for God, I doubt that. Further,many Gurbanis feature the name of Ram as well.

I am a Sikh...
Ram, Shiv, Vishnu, Rahim they are all used in context of almighty god...

Just wanted to clarify with regards to your pic-avatar...

Cheers!!!! this is UK slang...

 

[Mahakaya]

I am a Sikh...
Ram, Shiv, Vishnu, Rahim they are all used in context of almighty god...

Just wanted to clarify with regards to your pic-avatar...

Cheers!!!! this is UK slang...

Yes that is what I meant.

 

[bumbgola]

Broadsword: Air Force gives Gripen fighter a second chance

Air Force gives Gripen fighter a second chance


by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard
3rd April 2010

Sweden’s futuristic medium fighter, the Gripen NG, has been given a second chance in the US $11 billion contest to select a Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for the Indian Air Force. The MoD has asked Gripen International, which last month failed to send the Gripen NG fighter for trials in India on the dates allotted by the IAF, to send the fighter for trials in the middle of May.

Business Standard had reported, on 9th March, that Gripen International had sent older Gripen-D fighters for trials because the Gripen NG was held back in Sweden for improvements for the Swedish Air Force. Technically, that was a violation of the terms of the competition.

But senior IAF officers have told Business Standard that they would not allow a legalistic interpretation of rules to narrow their options. Explains a senior air marshal who is involved in the decision-making, “We have a time window until the middle of this year, during which each of the six fighters in the tender are undergoing three stages of trials and inspections. As long as the Gripen NG is ready for trials within that period, we will evaluate the aircraft. All six vendors will have a level-playing field.”

Besides the Gripen NG, the other fighters being evaluated by the IAF are: the F/A-18 Super Hornet; the F-16IN Super Viper; the Dassault Rafale; the Eurofighter Typhoon; and the MiG-35. While all but the MiG-35 are already in service, the Gripen NG is still under development. Just a single “demonstrator” aircraft has been built to prove its capabilities. Next year, Gripen will build the first Gripen NG prototype.

Gripen International has welcomed the MoD’s decision. Gripen’s India campaign head, Eddy de la Motte, told Business Standard, “Our plan was always to bring the (Gripen NG) demonstrator to India. The Swedish government’s sudden tasking is being completed right now. We will soon be ready to go to India and we will provide the IAF with maximum opportunity to evaluate the fighter.”

The first of these opportunities will come next week, when an IAF team travels to Sweden to evaluate the Gripen’s firing of a “Beyond Visual Range” air-to-air missile. It is learned that Gripen International will make the Gripen NG demonstrator available to IAF pilots, should they wish to fly it in Sweden next week. If the IAF accepts the offer, it will be the first time an Indian pilot flies the Gripen NG, albeit with a Swedish “safety pilot” in the rear cockpit.

While Gripen International expresses confidence in their fighter, it now faces trials in conditions hotter (and, therefore, more unfavourable) than all the other contenders. IAF sources reveal that the Gripen-D performed well in last month’s trials; despite that, the Gripen NG will be put through the full battery of tests, including high altitude testing in Ladakh.

The Gripen NG is significantly more capable than the Gripen D. It has a more powerful GE-414 engine; it carries more fuel and, therefore, has greater range; and, with 10 hard points for weaponry, the Gripen NG has extra teeth. It will also come with a new AESA radar, electronic warfare equipment, and upgraded avionics.

Senior IAF officers, while happy with these features, also highlight the Gripen NG’s downside: a high level of US electronics, weaponry, and the GE-414 engine. And the F-16IN and the Gripen NG are the only two single-engine aircraft in the contest, which places them at a disadvantage in terms of reliability.