Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[shrivatsa]

Typhoon is way too expensive for nations like India, See Saudis came with money and got what they wished.

Oh yes too expensive for countries like India phew.

 

[shrivatsa]

Typhoon is way too expensive for nations like India, See Saudis came with money and got what they wished.

Oh yes too expensive for countries like India phew.

 

[nitesh]

Are you saying that they have already paid for the future maintenances?

Yes paid for maintenance and by the way what is "future maintenance" you don't maintain a plane or whatever on the first day itself.

Saudis have the infrastructure or not but first it has to be seen, is it worth having? untill unless it is a matter of national prestige! As I suppose is the case always with indians.

r you trying to say that it is good to have yourself dependent in case of conflict to other country

I don't think so, EADS is least interested, infect the consortium countries are looking at each other that who will take the lead and eventually bear the cost of bidding.

end of the day they have quoted for it and please check previous posts that they are trying there level best to win the deal. Check this link, and stop talking in air
The Hindu : International / India & World : EADS invites India to join Eurofighter upgrade

I think more important is indian attitude, demands and interests.
What is clear is that india need an ally who can go hand in hand with india in war senario with Pakistan and compliment indian military all round within this 10billion. The only natural ally pop up is US.

Well agree here that this deal will also reflect indian mentality towards future alliances.

LCA has delta wings does not means that they have correct design. Infect aerodynamics of LCA has been a big area of concern for its developers. Recently they have worked out a lot on the frame to reduce drag and add maneuverability to mig21 level but failed miserably.
This is one of the biggest reasons of dely, 'the national prestige' other wise principally its US, in bold.
india need some one who can help them in LCA at the same time sell them top of the line fighters with t.o.t and a partnership for new fighter programme.

LCA need help in kaveri engine and it is accepted that some foreign vendor will be invited to sort out the problem and regarding LCA first read this
The Hindu News Update Service
again please stop talking in air.

Even if indians decided to work free of cost they cannot bring the price so down that they are able to fly away with 126 typhoon with 10billion.
Typhoon is way too expensive for nations like india, See Saudis came with money and got what they wished.

well prove that it is impossible to come down to 10 billion dollars with some sort of logic behind it just dont talk in air. yes saudis got they wished for and hope India will get what it is wishing for

 

[JEFF]

Saudis have the infrastructure or not but first it has to be seen, is it worth having? untill unless it is a matter of national prestige! As I suppose is the case always with indians.

I don't understand how did you manage to interlinked national prestige with liceance production because India has been licance producing the aircrafts since decades and this is not the first time. I think you should be much more conservative in interlinking.

I don't think so, EADS is least interested, infect the consortium countries are looking at each other that who will take the lead and eventually bear the cost of bidding.

Pls tell me how does EADS is least interested?, infact MRCA bidding is considered as a major event to earn reputation in future fighter jet market. Jet that will win this bid would eventually considered as a potential product for the future sale to all other countries. And hence your verdict of EADS is least interested is outrightly invalid.

I think more important is indian attitude, demands and interests.

Offcourse, this what MRCA bid is all about. You should first secure all this elements before going for purchases of something from aborad. Just because delays are being caused and bidders are getting excessively uneasy with tedious procedure of MRCA, then I am sorry it is not our problem.

What is clear is that india need an ally who can go hand in hand with india in war senario with Pakistan and compliment indian military all round within this 10billion. The only natural ally pop up is US.

I don't think apart from Russia, anybody would subscribed to your thoughts.

LCA has delta wings does not means that they have correct design.

Delta wing is one among the successful designs been adopted in number of fighter jet by every other western, european countries. I don't understand what did you seen so much incorrect in delta wings.

Infect aerodynamics of LCA has been a big area of concern for its developers. Recently they have worked out a lot on the frame to reduce drag and add maneuverability to mig21 level but failed miserably.

Kindly provide the link where your eyes has seen failure of LCA's designers to bring its performance in accordance with Mig-21 maneurverablity? I think this is nothing but your any other bluff.

This is one of the biggest reasons of dely, 'the national prestige' other wise principally its US, in bold.
india need some one who can help them in LCA at the same time sell them top of the line fighters with t.o.t and a partnership for new fighter programme.

India never comes and admitted that it need both purchase and help in domestic version of fighter jet from MRCA's bidders. Rather it was the bidders themselves who invited HAL to have some consultation in fast track development of LCA and not design.

Even if indians decided to work free of cost they cannot bring the price so down that they are able to fly away with 126 typhoon with 10billion.

Pls do bring the premise upon which you have concluded this platitude.

Typhoon is way too expensive for nations like india, See Saudis came with money and got what they wished.

Oh how did you manage to conclude pricing pattern for India upon Saudis deal? especially when India has followed its 50% of offset clause if ever you heard about it.

 

[JEFF]

I dont know why india is spending too much on MRCA for a new aircraft.
India should go for F-35.

F-35 is not an aircraft US would like to sell to India, even if it willing then only it would come out with lots of strings attached.

They have already a good track record in flying SU-30MKI.
They should simply upgrade to EWs, AESA rador and avionics and AAMs from US. This will be first aircraft of Russian, French , Israel and American JVs used by IAF.

Concept of the MRCA is all about Medium weight aircraft whereas MKI is of heavyweight catagory aircraft and hence we can't do the above because of expensive maintance of MKI.

Nothing can beat this except F-22.

This is nothing but your dillution.

For future order some F-35. simply dont waste time in evaluating for 3 yrs and induction at 2014. by that time F-35 will be ready.
US will happy to provide F-35 to Inida.

Answer as above.

Estimation at 2015.

PAK-FA - 30
F-35 - 30
SU-30MKI with AESA - 250

INDIA will be only country operating both PAK-FA and F-35.

Good ambition but whereas your 126 MRCA Su-30MKI goes because we have already order 240 MKI?

 

[nitesh]

I dont know why india is spending too much on MRCA for a new aircraft.
India should go for F-35.

US is the country having highest stake in that project has they offered it to India? Or you are thinking that india is going to snatch it from them.

They have already a good track record in flying SU-30MKI.
They should simply upgrade to EWs, AESA rador and avionics and AAMs from US. This will be first aircraft of Russian, French , Israel and American JVs used by IAF.

Is upgrades are so simpler to do? Please put a little bit of thought berfore writing anything.

Nothing can beat this except F-22.

Can you please tell the logic behind this conclusion.

For future order some F-35. simply dont waste time in evaluating for 3 yrs and induction at 2014. by that time F-35 will be ready.
US will happy to provide F-35 to Inida.

Can you please provide a link that US has offered f35 to India, or atleast with an indication that they are happy to provide F35 to india

Estimation at 2015.

PAK-FA - 30
F-35 - 30
SU-30MKI with AESA - 250

INDIA will be only country operating both PAK-FA and F-35.

PAK-FA has to enter service by 2015 to be very optimistic, how you had reach the magical figure of 30.

And can you please also give a magical figure of how many f35 india should buy to enlighten us.

 

[Imran Khan]

I dont know why india is spending too much on MRCA for a new aircraft.
India should go for F-35.

They have already a good track record in flying SU-30MKI.
They should simply upgrade to EWs, AESA rador and avionics and AAMs from US. This will be first aircraft of Russian, French , Israel and American JVs used by IAF.
Nothing can beat this except F-22.

For future order some F-35. simply dont waste time in evaluating for 3 yrs and induction at 2014. by that time F-35 will be ready.
US will happy to provide F-35 to Inida.

Estimation at 2015.

PAK-FA - 30
F-35 - 30
SU-30MKI with AESA - 250

INDIA will be only country operating both PAK-FA and F-35.

mr.come out of dream you think imposible if india today order f-35 will come in india 2017 or more late

 

[nitesh]

US offers high tech F-35 fighters to India

Hey good link, but this is quite old news. There is no significant talks about it after this. Do you have any info that Lockheed Martin's bid in response to RFP includes this offer?

 

[Imran Khan]

but first they will finish old orders of f-35

USA navy-480 USAF-1763 US MARINE CROPS 480

UK 138 UK NAVY 60

Italy 109

Turkey 100

Australia 100

ISRAIL 100

Norway [more then] 60

Denmark 48

then if some one order they will get f-35 after all this .also 3100 units they produce for alleys nations.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Threads merged.

All MRCA News and discussion in this thread please.

 

[TALWAR]

but first they will finish old orders of f-35

USA navy-480 USAF-1763 US MARINE CROPS 480

UK 138 UK NAVY 60

Italy 109

Turkey 100

Australia 100

ISRAIL 100

Norway [more then] 60

Denmark 48

then if some one order they will get f-35 after all this .also 3100 units they produce for alleys nations.

Procurements are not first in first out, like distributing rations!
The delivery dates are signed in the contract.

 

[Imran Khan]

Procurements are not first in first out, like distributing rations!
The delivery dates are signed in the contract.

who india get before they pay alot of $ before 10 years not for late there orders.

 

[p2prada]

The Americans plan on manufacturing atleast 200 F-35s a year by 2015(3 years after the first F-35 is out). They plan on inducting 3000 F-35s for themselves and help construct 1000-1500 more for their NATO allies and other potential clients.

In case India opts for the F-35 (fat chance), we will only ask for delivery of a squadron sized package(13-18 aircrafts) and manufacture the rest in India. This will obviously come with an offset clause.

 

[nitesh]

The Americans plan on manufacturing atleast 200 F-35s a year by 2015(3 years after the first F-35 is out). They plan on inducting 3000 F-35s for themselves and help construct 1000-1500 more for their NATO allies and other potential clients.

In case India opts for the F-35 (fat chance), we will only ask for delivery of a squadron sized package(13-18 aircrafts) and manufacture the rest in India. This will obviously come with an offset clause.

But isn't Lockheed Martin is pitching for F16I. There is no official confirmation that F35 has been offered to India (Read as given in response to RFP).
And will USA give the ToT for its latest tech as ToT. Very very low chance.
Its mere speculation for India the 5th generation planes will be PAK-FA and later on MCA will join.

 

[nitesh]

news about red flag. seems like a good time for IAF to evaluate rafale in live.

IndianExpress.com :: IAF Su-30s to fly in US skies with Korean, French warjets

IAF Su-30s to fly in US skies with Korean, French warjets
Manu Pubby
Posted online: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 at 0057 hrs

New Delhi, June 30: India’s participation at the Red Flag exercise at Nellis airbase of the US Air Force - seen as a milestone in its military engagement with the US — will be a multi-nation event with elite air units from France and South Korea scheduled to participate in what is often termed as one of the world’s toughest aerial combat training exercise.

While IAF will be fielding its frontline Su 30 MKI fighters for the 11-day event — the first appearance of the Russian-origin fighter in North America - France will pose a lofty challenge to them with its latest Rafale multi-role fighters for the exercise.

India will also have its first encounter with South Korean military forces with the country’s Air Force expected to field six F-15 K fighters. This would also mark South Korea’s first presence at the exercise.
Besides a fleet of six Su 30 MKI aircraft, IAF is expected to send an IL 76 transport aircraft and an IL 78 mid-air refuler to the exercise to be held from August 11-22.

However, enthusiasts, who were looking forward to a contest between the Su 30 MKI and the F 22, may be disappointed, as the USAF has not yet planned to send in its fifth generation fighter for the exercise.

The American force is expected to comprise F-16 and F-15 fighters, electronic warfare aircraft, refulers and C 130 and C 17 transport aircraft.
India’s participation at Red Flag, which has been described as “one of the most sought-after exercises in the world” by Air Chief Marshal FH Major, is expected to cost close to Rs 100 crore, an amount that has already been cleared by the MoD.
“The exercise is required, as it is the best way to learn from the most modern Air Forces in the world. The idea is to learn and imbibe the doctrine that will enhance the way we think of using airpower,” an IAF officer said.
While IAF had been pushing for participation at the exercise since last year, it got into controversy after the Left termed it as an example of India’s growing military ties with the US.
IAF, meanwhile, considers its participation as a great learning opportunity, as the exercise is at present open to only NATO countries or very close US allies.