Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

So it wasn't any air exercise ,but the trials we are looking at.

Don't think that this was a part of the trials, but some flights around the time, yes.

 

[GareebNawaz]

I think India will choose F-18, because MMS wants to go with USA. The delay is because some group of IAF officers want to go Russian or European. Now the delay is ending, it means MMS is pushing for quick acceptance of US offer.

F-18 will also give India access to F-35. India's strategic thinking should be that it wants to balance between Russia and USA. So it wants participation in T-50 related Russian programs and it wants to participate in F-35. The IN will also want F-35.

The least likely is Rafale or Eurofighter because they are too expensive. The cost of ownership over lifetime, not just the upfront costs, would be tremendous too.

F-16 will automatically mean access to F-35 remember Lockheed Martin makes F-35s not Boeing. We might have a possiblity for F-35 if we opt for F/A-18 but not as great.

 

[GORKHALI]

MILITARY AVIATION AND SPACE TECHNOLOGY NEWS: France orders Meteor missiles for Rafales


France orders Meteor
missiles for Rafales BY FLIGHT GLOBAL-France has ordered 200 Meteor beyond
visual-range air-to-air
missiles, making it the third
nation to commit to the
production phase of the
MBDA programme. The ramjet-engined Meteor
will arm Dassault Rafale
fighters in French air force
and navy service, with
deliveries to commence in
2018, the nation's DGA procurement agency says.
MBDA UK was notified of the
contract award on 22
December 2010, it adds.
The UK is the lead buyer for
the Meteor, having signed a development and production
contract in 2002. Its
acquisition is projected as
valuing around £1.3 billion
($2.0 billon), according to
data included in the UK National Audit Office's Major
Projects Report 2010
publication. The type should
enter operational use around
2015, although MBDA expects
to complete certification activities by next year.
Sweden also in September
2010 signed a production
order for the Meteor, which
will arm its air force's Saab
Gripens. Sweden's Defence Materiel Administration (FMV)
expects the type to become
operational in 2015.
Other partners to the Meteor
programme who have yet to
sign production orders for the BVRAAM design are
Eurofighter operators
Germany, Italy and Spain. The
type is also being offered to
potential export operators of
the Typhoon, Gripen and Rafale, and touted by MBDA
as a candidate weapon
system for the Lockheed
Martin F-35 Joint Strike
Fighter.


Great news indeed for rafale lovers lol:

 

[luckyyy]

The ramjet-engined Meteor will arm Dassault Rafale fighters in French air force and navy service, with deliveries to commence in 2018,
Great news indeed for rafale lovers lol:

indeed rafale lovers can dance , only after 2018..............

 

[luckyyy]

Also when gripen NG is fielded and tested then what is the problem, this means atleast we have seen what we are getting but in other cases we have not even seen what actually we are getting. Rafale and typhoon tested by IAF never even had aesa or thrust vectoring as claimed by typhoon.


AESA in Rafale is already tested but they have not yet started upgrading their fighter.


According to IAF's requirement none of the fighter are suitable. Every fighter had to include some new technology to meet the requirement. Like Rafale, they didn't had AESA they now developed it. Eurofighter didn't have AESA and thrust vectoring tech, but they are developing.


Sorry i didn't get your point. Gripen had a fully developed aesa long before Rafale, eurofighter and MIG35 and it is tested on the fighter. Mig35 and Rafale has also developed their aesa and typhoon will also develop in future but the point is these things have to tested.
Look buddy if it is upto me i would select typhoon, but its the most expensive in the competition.

I can't find enough but i think you are mistaken, Gripen NG will be fielded with GE414. Right now it works on Volvo Aero Corporation RM12 which is jointly developed by Volvo-GE for Gripen and is completely based on General Electric F-404-400 (80 KN (18,000lb) thrust class).
Look man, they are just going of thrust increase. As per gripen website its just is simple upgrade and according to my opinion if the facts written are true then its something we should not be worried.

Wow man....really i salute you....plz share the intel with us, after all this is why we are here....
Bye the way, i don't see IRST as a feature that would effect too much as it is available in many flying machines and i think Sweden must have tested it on any of them.
Also gripen has the best data link which is important for the mission completion.
Just tell me one thing....recently rafale started falling down, if tomorrow France start to field down their Rafale then what we will do. Look it might not appear as a big problem to you but this is one of the problem which is drawing rafale back. On the other hand gripen is already 270 on order, same with eurofighter.
Although the thing which is against gripen is their borrowed parts from all over the world.
I think that 3 supplier agreement was meant only for this.

the best part of Gripen be that IAF can put the systems of their choice on it , but that could also be it's worst part to in term of technology gains...
http://www.stratpost.com/gripen-hardsells-new-aesa-radar-low-cost-for-mmrca
but i maintain that Gripen and MIG-35 would be the last two on negotiating table..

 

[RajeHind]

I think India will choose F-18, because MMS wants to go with USA. The delay is because some group of IAF officers want to go Russian or European. Now the delay is ending, it means MMS is pushing for quick acceptance of US offer.

F-18 will also give India access to F-35. India's strategic thinking should be that it wants to balance between Russia and USA. So it wants participation in T-50 related Russian programs and it wants to participate in F-35. The IN will also want F-35.

The least likely is Rafale or Eurofighter because they are too expensive. The cost of ownership over lifetime, not just the upfront costs, would be tremendous too.

Mig-35 is unlikely because that would be interpreted as a snub to USA. MMS's nose is firmly behind USA.

Gripen is a possibility though. It suits India's needs (just like LCA is supposed to suit India's needs). But I still think the F-35 offer and USA alliance is too sweet for MMS to pass up.

Apart from MMS bashing, ur post is reasonable one.

 

[luckyyy]

extimated cost of fighter aircraft (year 2006)

Rafale = USD135ml (114ml euro)
Gripen =USD76ml
F-18 =USD95ml
Eurofighter=USD140ml (118ml euro)

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/articles/communiques/FighterCostFinalJuly06.pdf

 

[syntax_error]

$10 billion mistake? IAS officers under lens

NEW DELHI: Even as the race for the "mother of all defence deals" enters the last lap, two IAS officers of the defence ministry are now under the scanner for the mysterious way in which a "secret" file connected to the $10.4 billion project to acquire 126 new fighters went missing and was then found by a roadside.

Ordering an inquiry into the episode, defence minister A K Antony on Monday said he was "very clear that every officer has to be very careful at every stage" while dealing with the huge MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project. "We have viewed the incident seriously...the inquiry is in progress," he said. It was last week that the "secret" file, which was earlier submitted to the MoD by IAF, went missing and was then found later in the day near Khelgaon Marg in South Delhi.

The file dealt with the technical offsets evaluation of the bids submitted by the six global aviation majors, whose fighters have already been extensively trial evaluated by IAF pilots over the last couple of years.

The MMRCA contract specifies an obligation of 50% offsets, under which the foreign aviation major who is finally selected will be required to plough half of the contract forex value back into India.

MoD was tight-lipped about the incident but sources said the file was apparently lost by the bureaucrats, one an additional secretary-rank officer and the other a director, while being taken to the Bharat Electronics Limited guest-house on Khelgaon Marg. The file was found by a security guard who then got in touch with the authorities concerned.

The episode has evoked widespread concern since the gigantic MMRCA project is being bitterly contested by the six vendors. The fighters in the race are the American F/A-18 'Super Hornet' ( Boeing) and F-16 'Falcon' ( Lockheed Martin) Russian MiG-35 (RAC MiG), Swedish Gripen (Saab), French Rafale (Dassault) and Eurofighter Typhoon (consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies). "A single file or document cannot, of course, influence the process of selection. But the offsets file is definitely commercially sensitive for the vendors in terms of who they are tying up with in India, among other things," said a senior official.

Links:$10 billion mistake? IAS officers under lens - The Times of India


Really Sad .. when will we learn to be proactive rather than reactive ...

 

[sancho]

Great news indeed for rafale lovers lol:

That contract for French forces was planed for the end of 2010 anyway, also that they will buy them later only to replace MICA EM from service. The missile for Rafale itself should be available ealier and a final date for the integration would be more interesting. Like the blog also says, Sweden plans to have the missile operational in their older Gripens by 2015.

extimated cost of fighter aircraft (year 2006)

Rafale = USD135ml (114ml euro)
Gripen =USD76ml
F-18 =USD95ml
Eurofighter=USD140ml (118ml euro)


http://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/articles/communiques/FighterCostFinalJuly06.pdf

Not sure how reliable this calculation is, because it actually says the Rafale flyaway export cost is lower than of the Gripen C/D.

TAXES: VAT rates and export prices
Prices used in this study are inclusive of value-added tax (VAT), where applicable, as the basis we
used is the cost billed to national customers.
Consequently, the export prices of European aircraft should be reduced by the amount of national
VAT, which is not applicable on export contracts. Thus, the basic export price of a single-seat
Rafale C drops to 41.5 million euros ($ 49.8 million) after deduction of France’s VAT of 19.6%...

...Saab-BAE Systems JAS-39 GRIPEN
Program Unit Cost : $ 76.07 million
Unit Procurement Cost: $ 68.90 million ($55.1 million excluding VAT)

 

[Hulk]

I feel best deal is F-18, but scared of US sanctions. The other good deal is ET because we will get lot of TOT.

 

[GareebNawaz]

My vote for F/a-18 SH ( yes i am aware of not full ToT). Runner up EADS Eurofighter

---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

Apart from MMS bashing, ur post is reasonable one.

MMS is what and stands for what

 

[luckyyy]

Not sure how reliable this calculation is, because it actually says the Rafale flyaway cost is lower than of the Gripen C/D.

confused ?,(as always)
Program Unit Cost : it includes the cost of R&D and support systems and actually the cost the customer pays..

Unit Procurement Cost: it the cost of constructing the aircraft at the fectory..


it is the program unit cost that's matters...
Rafale = USD135ml (114ml euro)
Gripen =USD76ml

 

[doctor_who]

Raytheon will equip the fighters with new Super Hornet radar

Aviation Systems Command U.S. Air Force concluded an agreement with U.S. company Raytheon a contract to manufacture and supply of radars APG-79 active phased array (AFAR3), said Defense Aerospace . The deal amounted to 52 million dollars. Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. The new radars will be installed on fighter planes Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

According to Raytheon, it is the third order for the supply of radars to AFAR. Given the recent contract the company must pass the U.S. Navy 57 radars for fighter aircraft. It is expected that delivery of the first APG-79 will begin in October 2012. Work on the production of radar will be done at Raytheon in Mississippi, Massachusetts and Texas.

 

[sancho]

confused ?,(as always)
Program Unit Cost : it includes the cost of R&D and support systems and actually the cost the customer pays..

Unit Procurement Cost: it the cost of constructing the aircraft at the fectory..


it is the program unit cost that's matters...
Rafale = USD135ml (114ml euro)
Gripen =USD76ml

Yes I am confused to take a source that is comparing the price of fighters with Burgers as a reliable one!
Also you are mistaken again, the most reliable price to compare fighters with each other is the flyaway cost, because it is the basic cost of the fighter and the engines only and although I prefer the Rafale for India, I doubt that it is cheaper than the Gripen and that's what I said.

 

[sancho]

Agapanthe 2010 : mission accomplished

Last December, 25th, the CdG and her airgroup have leaved the Pakistani cost after 31 days of non stop mission above Afghanistan.
180 missons were flew among which...

...After a brief Stop at the UAE, the CdG is sailing to India where it will participate in joint exercices with the India Navy

Rafale News: Agapanthe 2010 : mission accomplished


The Greece airforce often train against the French navy Rafales in exercises and some missions was aimed on attacking the carrier from shore bases with their F16 and Mirage 2000s.
It would be interesting if IAF and IN would try something similar with MKI and Mig 29K + Phalcon AWACS. Not to mention that this is a great opportunity for IN to directly field their Mig 29Ks against Rafale Ms, that are participating in the competition for carrier fighters as well.