Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[halloweene]

Dunno, was on holiday sailing, away from internet!

 

[sancho]

Dunno, was on holiday sailing, away from internet!

Hehe, same here! I was hiking in Switzerland to get some days off of the net, but doesn't seem to have missed too much.

 

[sancho]

First fitting of SPEAR 3 prototypes to the EF:

 

[C130]

First fitting of SPEAR 3 prototypes to the EF:

what's the info on that weapon?
so it takes up one hard point per missile?
you could have a rack of 4 SDB instead

 

[sancho]

what's the info on that weapon?
so it takes up one hard point per missile?
you could have a rack of 4 SDB instead

It's an evolution of the Brimstone missile, with bigger warhead, retractable wings and will end up at quadpacks too:

In fact it's even likely that they will modify Brimstone 2 to be used as quadpacks with ejectors as well.

 

[C130]

nice...I like the Brimstone missile
pack 16 of those on a Rafale and you got some major firepower.

 

[sancho]

nice...I like the Brimstone missile
pack 16 of those on a Rafale and you got some major firepower.

That's not the Rafale, but the Eurofighter. Rafale won't get Brimstone because the Brits asked for too high integration costs and that might not be different with SPEAR 3 and that will be a mojor hit on Rafales future strike capability.

 

[C130]

I see.
maybe India might want to go for SDBI/II for it's Rafale's or go for SPEAR.

 

[kaykay]

That's not the Rafale, but the Eurofighter. Rafale won't get Brimstone because the Brits asked for too high integration costs and that might not be different with SPEAR 3 and that will be a mojor hit on Rafales future strike capability.

Will IAF still need this once Brahmos-M is ready?

 

[halloweene]

That's not the Rafale, but the Eurofighter. Rafale won't get Brimstone because the Brits asked for too high integration costs and that might not be different with SPEAR 3 and that will be a mojor hit on Rafales future strike capability.

Well i asked directly to Denis Mercier recelntly in Cazaux. lighter weapon than AASM 250 need is identified, technical specs are being written. Brimstone family is not excluded.

And no it would not be a back hand towards Rafale A2G capabilities. Spear should be cheaper (well Brimstone dual seeker isnt that cheaper to AASM btw), but less versatile than Hammer.

 

[NairLand]

Will IAF still need this once Brahmos-M is ready?

Its 1/15 the weight of Brahmos-M, covers 1/3 the distance with 1/3 the speed.

But an A/C can carry 16 of these and can strike a moving target 100 km away at mach 1. Not bad at all.

 

[sancho]

I see.
maybe India might want to go for SDBI/II for it's Rafale's or go for SPEAR.

SPEAR 3 outperforms SDB because of the propulsion kit, which should increase range from high and low altitude launches. But the Israeli SPICE 250 should be the most likely choice if IAF wants other PGMs than the French once.

Will IAF still need this once Brahmos-M is ready?

SPEAR 3, SDB, or SPICE 250s are PGMs with extended range, not cruise missiles like Brahmos. They will be used in CAS or SEAD and with quadpacks on a single hardpoint, a fighter will be able to carry out multiple strikes in a single attack.

Well i asked directly to Denis Mercier recelntly in Cazaux. lighter weapon than AASM 250 need is identified, technical specs are being written. Brimstone family is not excluded.

Too little too late, they completelly failed with the development of AASM 125, by modifying just the warhead, instead of modifying the weapon kit itself. That's what SPEAR 3 is about and why it will give much more benefits than a simple upgrade of the Brimstone missile.

And no it would not be a back hand towards Rafale A2G capabilities. Spear should be cheaper (well Brimstone dual seeker isnt that cheaper to AASM btw), but less versatile than Hammer.

SPEAR 3 is far more versatile than AASM, since it offers more range than AASM 125 from high altitude and even more from low altitude launches. It can be carried in greater loadouts and even more aerodynamically at the centerline. With the multi mode seeker, it will be able to attack targets with different guidance possibilities, while AASM offer different seekers so far only in different nose kits, which means you can only have one or the other (Laser or IR).
As I said before, SPEAR 3 and CFTs are game changers for EF in terms of capabilities! An EF even with external fuel tanks and a centerline LDP, will be able to carry more 8 to 16 x SPEAR 3s compared to 6 to 8 x AASM 125 with Rafale (twin launcher at the centerline maybe), from even longer distance and the same single pass attack capability. So all the benefits Rafale/AASM has today over the EF, but in a more capable way! In CAS and SEAD, the EF will surpass Rafale with this weapon, but I don't expect SPEAR 3 to be very cheap, since it remains to be a missile mainly. The should have developed it with an optional propulsion kit, since the wingkit alone will give it a reasonable range extention.

 

[NairLand]

SPEAR 3, SDB, or SPICE 250s are PGMs with extended range, not cruise missiles like Brahmos. They will be used in CAS or SEAD and with quadpacks on a single hardpoint, a fighter will be able to carry out multiple strikes in a single attack.

You are mistaken, Spear 3 is a cruise missile.

 

[sancho]

You are mistaken, Spear 3 is a cruise missile.

Not really, don't get into conclusions based on pics:

Missile systems, defence systems - MBDA missiles

It's a PGM with stand off capabilitilies, but far away from a cruise missile.

 

[NairLand]

Not really, don't get into conclusions based on pics:


It's a PGM with stand off capabilitilies, but far away from a cruise missile.

You mean the wings are just for show and not for gliding ?

Where does it say PGM can't glide or cruise ? ....its large range and low weight is a clear indicator of its ability to cruise.