Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Contrarian]

Lol, it seems i am alone

'I will go it alone' then.

I already TOLD you adux, that MiG 35 in its production form is inferior to teh Typhhon, however i challenge that after it has been modified.

JAPAN HAS NOT BOUGHT THE TYPHOON, get that first.
Then, Typhoon has PATHETIC ground attack, somethign MiG 35 is FAR FAR better in. Next Typhoon has been made with a CLEAR a2a bias in mind, however MiG 35 is able to challenge that because of its TVC.

I repeat dont continue on RCS. The Russians have reduced its RCS by quite a lot, its in teh same league as the Typhoon.

What a2a package are u talking about, new Russian a2a packages are comming. It seems you just like western stuff. All MiG 35 needs is a bit of TIME to make it better. With the new russian missiles comming, the a2a package is better than the one Typhoon has.

Supercruise is under development in Typhoon. If you take that as well along with composites, these are the only two things i cannot argue against. But are these two things the determining factor. I dont think so. Supercruise and composites alone dont make a winner.

If you wanna compare the two properly, im all for it. I say MiG 35 when modded, will be BETTER than Typhoon. You have to first understand the MiG 35 before commenting that it is inferior. Its not the same 80's design. Its been redesigned extensively using three basic models before the designation MiG 35.

So please, im not being jingoistic, cuz we dont have the plane yet. But i think its a great plane, and far better than Shornet. And i am willing to challenge every one here for it.

Incidentally, what is the percentage of composites used in Typhoon, adux?

 

[Adux]

Self Deleted

 

[Contrarian]

You dont know, probably i am getting some commision from the RAC MiG corp

I dont care whether i get shot down. What i do know is that you are following Typhoon blindly without knowing the MiG 35. saying stuff like aam package etc is better. Thats talking plain wrong!

 

[Adux]

Seriously Malay, Tell me what is that you know about the typhoon aka Eurofighter.
I am sure you know that i am aware quite a bit about the MIG-35.
RCS of a MiG reduced by 7 times, to that of a plane built on composites and made for RCS reduction. There is no equivalent for Meteor, and latest amram series. Super Cruise. If Russia is developing , so are other nations. Air-Ground mode has not been installed in the Typhoon yet, cuz it is on development. Tranche 4 will be equipped. Typhoon AESA is supposed to be the best in the World, Electronics wise, Just like the IAF I prefer Western. You dont anything about it dude, sorry. MIG-35 isnt even as good as Shornet, Only in WVR dog fight, Rest even with all the MKIzed stuff. You cant compare it to a Typhoon and Rafale, and SuperHornet Necks it out. Super Cruise and RCS reduction to near stealth, makes so much of a difference
I will not post any more on this.

 

[Contrarian]

Dont take the high road on me!! lol

Well, cool if you dont wanna discuss it, though i am willing to swear MiG 35 is head and shoulders above the Shornet ATLEAST.

 

[Adux]

Dont take the high road on me!! lol

Well, cool if you dont wanna discuss it, though i am willing to swear MiG 35 is head and shoulders above the Shornet ATLEAST.

So now you make it just the Shornet,
In what ways other than Manoverbility is it better than the Shornet.
AESA, Armamemts, Range, Payload, Avionics, Combat Record. etc etc etc. Stop making judgements on unproven sales broucher talk.

 

[melb4aust]

Well, cool if you dont wanna discuss it, though i am willing to swear MiG 35 is head and shoulders above the Shornet ATLEAST.

hmnnnn...ur getting there..gradually ......

 

[Contrarian]

No, i said "ATLEAST" for Shornet.

AESA i said can be fitted from Israel. Shornet's AESA is facing a LOT of problems and it will take time to rectify them. Armaments, i cannot say for that, the a2g complements of US are the best, though we are procuring some from Israel including Delilah. Avionics, i really dont think you should comment on that. Russian a2a munitions are more than sufficient, the new ones that is. Those that are being made for T-50.

This is hog wash saying blindly that Shornet has better avionics. MiG 35 ALSO has excellent avionics, i have posted the articles in MiG 35 thread.

Combat record, that does not mean anything nowadays.

 

[Adux]

Shornets are Avionics are out in the open, While MIG-35 most dont even know what they are, SO you assume that they are good. AESA which is operational has problems, granted .,....funny you take it over a non-operational AESA from a country which doesnt have the computer-building capacity as the USA. Those articles you posted are ejculating on Data Provided by the Manufactures; I wont take that sorry. Why is the Russian Government not interested in this machine, while ordering more Su-30. MIG-35 is the last ditch effort to save a sinking company, Its a good aircraft, I agree but to compare it to Rafale and Typhoon is ludicrous. Shornet is a better aircarft other than on manoverbility, period.

 

[Contrarian]

This is not the US, the 'period' wont do. In any case, it is not necessary for the RuAF to buy every a/c that the country produces. They might not need the aircraft, it might not fit their requirements, etc, etc. Countries dont buy aircrafts and fit their operational needs according to it. Countries buy aircrafts that fit in their operational needs. This is a baseless argument.

Well you have your opinion adux, i have mine. Lets leave it like that. I feel that MiG 35 would be the best buy for India, however all the aircraft in contention are top of the line, any a/c bought will not make me sorry, well apart from Gripen that is.lol.

 

[Adux]

MIG 35 being the BEst BUY for India, is different from being the second best aircarft in the world after the F-22.
Specs-wise Typhoon , Rafale, Shornet are far better
Of this 3, the Typhoon is the better one

 

[Contrarian]

I still keep my reservations about it being inferior to the other platforms.

 

[BATMAN]

VERY WELL, like i said, your comments dont stand on any ground, allow me to prove them.

Says WHO that its failed in aeronautics. India has developed its own plane, which Pakistan still has not done.

Who are you? .. LCA is Indian dream and JF-17 is Pak reality.

Now for the main point, this does not RELATE to aeronatutics, but space capabilities. It means that the ARMED FORCES WILL USE SPACE ASSETS IN THEIR OPERATIONS.

Dream on... No one out side India believe in your fantasies.

Do you KNOW how sucessfull India is in its space endevour? If you dont, then google and you will find out, India is VERY VERY advanced in its space capabilities.

Kindly, refer a link which certify your VERY VERY advance space capabilities.

We already have our own dedicated spy sat, and its the onlone known, who knows how many else are there. Ask learned members of this forum.

What do you mean by ''our own''. You have nothing of your own. Even your basic industries are left over from ''east India compay''.

No chalked out a plan so as how to make the AF global in its reach. How hard is this for you to understand? It means that they intend to induct new planes to increase size.

I meant to say that all your plans from past have failed miserably.
In 1984 you planned to build LCA suppose to be the leading jet in IAF by 1993 and yet today 2007 you have different plans, now come back in 2010.
Now you know why it is hard to understand your marvelous claims.

LOL, you are CLUELESS, you have no idea about anythhing dude. Seriously, read up, do you not wonder why any other senior member posted stuff like you have? Read more, post less.

The planes listed are indeed TOP OF TE LINE. India operates Mirage 2000 and is now being converted to Mirage 2005, so puh-lease, get more information. These are planes that PAF does not even PLAN to acquire. Their induction plans are limited to J-10's lol. World wide reach means able to ecercise the military power to get diplomatic gains.

I mean to say that this is the list IAF is showing the whole world from long time and even a child can prepare such a list with the help of wikipedia and IAF know nothing beyond this.
Don't lol for JF-17 because you will be crying after clicking the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JF-17#Related_content
No body really knows the true specifications of J-10 so don't draw conclusions without inputs.

I dont suppose you would comprehend what it means. We have no idea what IAF will chose, however we deem MiG 35 and Shornet as the top contendors for various reasons not "IAF experience with Migs can not be inclined in favour of more Migs!"....pathetic arguments.

LOL, i never thought youd say this....BY ALL MEANS COMPARE.
India has more tanks, more advanced planes, more in number, more guns, more cuise missiles, more number of nucllear bombs, more everything. If you wanna compare please start a new thread, and i am SURE you will get enlightened about the full size of India's military machine.

What the HELL are you talking about?? tech transfer of F-18 might work?? What man? Post properly.

I can bet IAF will not buy Mig and demanding from USA to transfer the technology of shornet becomes too big together with uranium enriching technology and can only succed if all americans may go crazy.
I meant to compare technical specs and you are comparing numbers...you are a cheif dude.

Can you NOT EVEN READ. Your quoted portion clearly says that IAF is for the first time using concepts such as 'life cycle costs', etc, etc which till now was non-existant in IAF's dictionary. How the hell is your answer even related??

Bulshit, In such scenario mig is the obvious choice, which will not be the case.
I still insist this delay is just negotiating technique to get more.

Yeah right...surely JF-17 will blast MiG 35s/ F/A-18E/F's or Rafale's out of the sky!! My god, do you know what actually IS JF-17? A MEDIUM tech fighter. A $15 mill plane.

Always a winner? In what? Not knowing anything? When has Pakistan won ANY War? When has it achieved ANY victory over India (on or off the field)!

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:
Projected unit cost of LCA is 35million USD do you think this put it in the same class as rafale.

3 contendors main-MiG 35, Shornet, Rafale.

Keep your bullshit to your self and don't mislead us all here.
I tell you following are out of race mig, mirrage, gripen, any US so what is left is Typhoon.

 

[Contrarian]

Batman, your posts have no technical standing, i cease.
I would waste my time explaining everything to you when you are clearly here not to learn something more but just to make a mockery of discussion.

 

[joey]

Whoever says Mig 35 is anything less than F18 is making a grave mistake.

Let me sum up somethings,

Issues with mig 35,

Shorter life than F18 but do we intend to keep a fighter for 50 years? 6000 hours for first engine overhaul is algith!
Still not fully developed.
etc etc.

Problems with F18,

Firstly What is on offer is the F18 Block 1 and not Block 2 and if anyone here is aware of what F18 will be for USN wont be for India, like say US has seperate night vision instruments for them and for export, with albeit less lumix power.

The F18 block 1 issues,

No IRST

Radar has teething problems revealed in flightglobal as it is made by westinghouse aka Northrop grumman who are not so much matured in maknig AESA, it has software glitches,.

Costs HUGE, The aussie deal with having experience training to operate american weapons costed 145mn$ each, India is just developing state without putting so much money on it it will be better to buy Mig 35 and invest 2bn$ for MCA which ADA has asked for.

Apart from this, The block 2 is a kickass fighter but is not on offer and neither Boeing has done with developements, expect 145mn$ per piece plus whatever required to upgrade to block 2 standards.


What mig 35 lacks?

Good AESA : ELM 2052 is there which is even better than APG 81 of JSF.
True Solid state SPJ jammer : Mig has signed deal with fincinnametti of Italy for their latest true solid state jammer.
It has latest Targetting pod.
It doesnt lacks any "munitions"

What India gains though mig 35, it already is going to manufacture mig33MK engines.
It can use its own computers, IRST and weapons.

Considering these factors mig 35 is no less than Eurofighter/Rafale/F18 block 1.

Rafale is a overhyped white elephant, upgrade mirage 2005 and you can have 80% of what Rafale has.

My choice would be Rafale and Mig 35, Rafale in 2 squadron number for dedicated strile role and specially for hacing access to the Meteor BVRAAM.