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Super cruise or AB is not a factor in A2A engagement dear it is the weapon.. what remains is in how much distance MKI or EF detect eacho other and doest it have a weapon to lock at that distance.. and for WVR i guess EFT will be never a match with MKI

Read the notes I geve on SC and EF has better weapons, the radar will of course be very close to MKI, just like the Captor M is now, but EF has a way lower RCS, which means it detects MKI earlier and will shoot the better weapon first!
On what basis are you arguing that MKI is better in WVR? Canards, high TWR, speed, HMS + WVR missile? EF has it all too, but is way lighter as well. If you assuming this only because of TVC, I think you are a bit overestimating it, Su 35BM should be a better match to EF in this regard.

Coming to Rafale ... MKI can carry brahmos and decent payload along with.. it has a payload of atleast 14 tonnes which Rafale can never match.. and it will be programmed to carry Nirbhay...

Where did you get that from? Flankers have an external payload of 8t!
 
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American F-15, F-16 are no match to Su-30. Forget it.

Also its doubtable how stealthy F-22 is, other than marketing propaganda. American stealth effort was based on few copied concepts from Russian journals.
...Can you even Explain how a yestertech Mki can be compared to an F-22 in a sentence let alone in a real vis a vis comparison?...:coffee:
 
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American F-15, F-16 are no match to Su-30. Forget it.

Also its doubtable how stealthy F-22 is, other than marketing propaganda. American stealth effort was based on few copied concepts from Russian journals.
Forget about their new F15 its way too good....you their latest f16s made fun of our MKIs in the last couple of exercises. MKIs were no match to their new f16s.
 
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What to enlighten ??/ Su30 is agile and maneuverable in its category. Its an air superiority fighter and not meant for dogfight. You guys should check out that thread of Aero India, in that a Rafale fighter said that Su30 is a fascinating machine but its too bulky and not good for dogfight. Our Rafale has very easily beaten them. The same result came in Indo-UK practice.

Read this...
Air superiority fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


One more thing about Air superiority fighters is that they are purchased in small numbers but we have placed orders upto 270 and HAL expects 40-42 more.

Have mki ever worked next to next with F15 during any exercise ??? I would love to see how does it perform as compared to US counterpart.



I would really recommend you to maybe read the entire page of that wikepedia link that you provided... just pasting a sentence out of context doesn't make your argument valid...

your " sacrifice high maneuverability, and instead focus on remaining performance stuff " was US doctrine for F104's and F100 which got hammered by the migs in vietnam... hence topgun was concieved and then devloped highly agile . F15 as air supremacy and f16 lightweight day fighter. Primary role of F15 Eagle was to be an air supremacy fighter. SU 27 and Mig 29 were designed to outperform specifically F15 and f16 resp.

Have a rational thought about your EFT/rafale's size advantage on MKI
Smaller aircraft is not the only criterion to better Dogfighting performance. There are parameters like Airframe structure.. Max design load...Wing Loading... Afterburner thrust... Lowspeed manuevering... Thrust vectoring...Fuel capacity..Range... Low altitude performance..etc

As far as your joint exercises goes... in gwalior.. bisons scored kills on f15's .. so should we believe f15 is inferior in dogfighting to Bison....

Exercise results depend on the scenario being simulated .. its never one on one dogfight...


One more thing about Air superiority fighters is that they are purchased in small numbers but we have placed orders upto 270 and HAL expects 40-42 more.

Do you know how many f15's US has or how many SU27's Russia uses??:hitwall: Let me tell one thing very clearly ... I have worked on Su30MKI's forsignificant yearsto inform you that, You have no clue how proud the IAF is of this aircraft.... And trust me if it was commercially feasable they would like to have 400 of these...

Sukhoi 30MKI will remain the backbone on indian Airforce... It has one of the most effective TVC systems...massive thrust engines... superb weapons loadout... Its airframe is superior to both EFT/Rafale ... In dogfights it is unmatched....


About your RCS Dillema .... Neither Euroradar captor nor RBE22AA have been deployed on your EFT/rafale...So my dear friend BARS N011M still otranges both of your champions... Even though eft/rafale will have small rcs..MKI will see first and shoot firt from a larger distance "With a better BVR MISSLE"

When EFT tranche 3 and rafale get there AESA radars... by that time i guess MKI will have Phazatron AESA upgrade.. so i dont see this advantage being tilted....


In short...MKI outmanuevers... outranges...outguns... your outstanding multirole aircrafts...

-VM
 
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Where did you get that from? Flankers have an external payload of 8t!

the total weapon payload is 14t , out of which this 8t can be carried on wings the rest 6t will be carried within as dumb bombs ..
 
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Even though eft/rafale will have small rcs..MKI will see first and shoot firt from a larger distance "With a better BVR MISSLE"

When EFT tranche 3 and rafale get there AESA radars... by that time i guess MKI will have Phazatron AESA upgrade.. so i dont see this advantage being tilted....
The current Typhoon radar, Captor-M is comparable to the Bars in terms of radar range, even though its a mech radar its still pretty impressive. Also the MKI doesn't have a better BVR missile. Yes the R-77 has greater range than the AIM- 120C which the typhoon carries but it doesn't make it better.
When the EFT does get its AESA it will also have the METEOR which will give it an advantage over the Su-30MKI, unless it gets new missiles as well .
 
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Forget about their new F15 its way too good....you their latest f16s made fun of our MKIs in the last couple of exercises. MKIs were no match to their new f16s.

You need a lot of reading...
 
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The current Typhoon radar, Captor-M is comparable to the Bars in terms of radar range, even though its a mech radar its still pretty impressive. Also the MKI doesn't have a better BVR missile. Yes the R-77 has greater range than the AIM- 120C which the typhoon carries but it doesn't make it better.
When the EFT does get its AESA it will also have the METEOR which will give it an advantage over the Su-30MKI, unless it gets new missiles as well .

MKI will get an AESA upgrade... even without it, N011 BARS is unmatched in its performance and IMO i think the western world still has no clue about the range of its performance.

ramjet R77 RVV-MD(R77M1) it still out ranges the EADS Meteor/AIM 120C and also maneuvers better than Aim 120C in tail chase. The jamming probability of R77M1 will also be very low... and yes Sukhoi will get the new Missile too with the Phazatron upgrade
 
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Forget about their new F15 its way too good....you their latest f16s made fun of our MKIs in the last couple of exercises. MKIs were no match to their new f16s.

"MKIs were no match to their new f16s" I appreciate your sense of humor:rofl:
 
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Vendors have to provide aircrafts as per contract: IAF official

Senior IAF official who did not wanted to be named has told idrw.org that, any Vendor who will win the multi-billion dollar MMRCA deal will have to provide aircrafts as per the contract and IAF and HAL cannot be held responsible if the vendor is not able to clear any restriction from their respective governments on any of the technology that they have agreed for in the aircraft.

Official responded when he was asked if India will sign Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) with United States, if an American fighter is selected in the multi-billion dollar MMRCA deal, he also added that “MOD had asked and had taken advice from Indian air force on CISMOA and we have provided our suggestion on that”.

When asked if IAF will induct aircrafts if there are missing certain critical technologies like it happened with recently inducted C-130J, he responded “We all already looking out for using European and Indian devices which are missing in the aircraft (C-130J) and will source it soon but in terms of such a large number of aircrafts which will be purchased in MMRCA deal, we could ask original vendor to either provide the technology or source, test and certify it and only then deliver the aircrafts”

It seems that Indian air force have worked out a arrangement or a strategy if American fighters are selected by MOD, and have already provided their feedback on this matter, such agreement has been asked only by American government, this has put American fighters in a disadvantage position in the competition, since Indian government is not much serious in entering into such agreement with united states, which has the backing of its senior air force official .

Experts term it “classic case of who will blink first”, and India has the upper hand since it is the purchaser and with multiple vendor in the race from different countries ready to provide key Transfer of Technology, Americans either have to provide India with the technology without entering into such agreement or allow their fighter aircrafts to be fiddled with some other device manufactures, which Americans have not allowed to do to even their closest allies.

Boeing had failed to had clearance from us government and pentagon on providing consultancy service for India’s Tejas Program, this might have started alarm bells in Indian air force, officials from the air force when questioned on this matter in recently held Aero India, did agree that Americans will give them hard time in releasing TOT of key technologies like the radar which American vendors are tightlipped about.

One official also pointed out that it will be very difficult to base Russian (referring to FGFA and MKI) and American aircrafts in the same base if American crew comes to service radar and other components every now and then which will be not liked by Russia.

Vendors have to provide aircrafts as per contract: IAF official
 
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Trolling is not encouraged in certain value added threads,

We are okay if an infant piss on the roadside, but not an elder one..

Good for u man... i was just telling the truth... look at the previous page... why the hypocrisy.
 
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taking a weapon load of 5000kg and internal fuel of 2500kg for single engine and 5000kg for twin engine, Thrust-to-Weight-ratio comparision of the six mmrca contenders..


Rafale :
9500(empty weight)+5000(weaponload)+5000(internal fuel)=19500kg=42900 lb
22500 lbf(dry thrust)/42900=0.524
34000(aferburner thrust)/42900=0.793

Eurofighter :
11000+5000+5000=21000kg=46191 lb
27000/46191=0.585
40500/46191=0.877

F-16IN :
9979+5000+2500=18244kg=38450 lb
19000/38450=0.494
32500/38450=0.845

F-18 :
14552+5000+5000=24552kg=54000 lb
28000/54000=.0518
44000/54000=0.814

Gripen NG :
7100+5000+2500=15460kg=31600 lb
14000/31600=0.443
22000/31600=0.700

MIG-35 :
11000+5000+5000=21000kg=46200 lb
23800/46200=0.515
39680/46200=0.858

compare it to SU-30MKI on same perimeter :

18400(empty weight)+5000(internal fuel)+5000(weapon load) = 28400kg = 62480 lb
33400 lbf(total dry thrust)/62480 = 0.535
55720 lbf(total after burner thrust)/62480 = 0.891
 
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