Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[GORKHALI]

 

[jha]

It seems RAFALE is not a favorite among BABUs in MoD if the conspiracy is true..

 

[bhagat]

Britain in Eurofighter Talks with Indonesia: Report


LONDON - Britain is in talks with Indonesia on the possible sale of Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft despite concerns over Jakarta's human rights record, The Times newspaper reported March 10


Indonesia informally approached Britain over the potential acquisition of up to 24 jets. The previous Labour government banned defense exports to the country in 1999 amid claims it had used British-made planes to bomb civilians.


The sale would be worth around 5 billion pounds ($8.1 billion dollars, 5.8 billion euros) in total, the paper said, but would be hugely controversial in light of current concern over the source of weapons being used against Arab rebels.

British military company BAE Systems has separately offered to upgrade Indonesia's fleet of Hawk jets, it said.

Gerald Howarth, a British defense minister, will discuss the potential sale when he attends a defense summit in Jakarta later this month, the Times said.

"I fully expect that to be the case," Howarth told the paper. "Typhoon is on their agenda. Their interest shows the extent of interest by countries around the world in what is one of the most sophisticated aircraft anywhere."

Human rights group Amnesty International accuses Indonesia of rights violations including police torture and a restricted media.

Former Prime Minister Tony Blair's Labour government blocked the sale of jets after it was claimed that Indonesia's Hawk fleet had bombed East Timor rebels.

Kaye Stearman, a spokeswoman for Campaign Against Arms Trade, told the Times: "From 1994 to 1999 Indonesia bought half of its military equipment from the U.K., backed by U.K. export credits.

"The people of Indonesia have accumulated huge debts which they are still paying off. The Hawk jets and other British-made weaponry were used by Indonesia in East Timor, West Papua and Aceh.

"With such a dreadful record, BAE and the British government should not be trying to sell more weapons to Indonesia," she added.

Eurofighters were grounded last year in several countries due to the problematic ejectors after a crash killed a Saudi pilot.

Britain in Eurofighter Talks with Indonesia: Report - Defense News

 

[angeldemon_007]

$10 bn fighter aircraft deal may be signed before July: Air Force Chief

Indicating that the $10 billion multi-role combat aircraft deal is close to getting inked, Air Chief Marshal P V Naik said today that the finalists for the contest to supply 126 new fighters to the Indian Air Force would be announced by the end of this month. He said he was “extremely hopeful” that the contract would be signed before his retirement in July.

The IAF faces a serious shortage of fighter aircraft — a bulk of the MiG series of fighters which form its backbone are set to be phased out by 2014.

“(Am) extremely hopeful it will be signed before I retire. The decks are cleared for the deal. The only question now is of signing,” he said at a function organised by the Indian Women’s Press Corps. He said the only delay now could be a bureaucratic hurdle if one of the losing contenders cries foul.

Naik confirmed that the final contenders would be short-listed by the end of this month and would be called for commercial negotiations.

All six contenders for the deal — American F16 and F/A18, French Rafale, Swedish Gripen, Russian MiG 35 and the Eurofighter — are waiting for word from the Ministry of Defence (MoD) which has almost completed the procedure of going through the flight evaluation reports.

It is learnt that the top two contenders in terms of performance are the French Rafale and the EADS Eurofighter, both of which are recently-developed twin-engined fighters. However, the MoD may choose to invite more than two fighters for the next round of commercial negotiations in which the lowest bidder would be chosen.

As per the norms, the winning candidate will be the lowest priced fighter that gets short-listed after technical evaluation. However, the final choice will be made by the Cabinet Committee on Security, which will have the discretion of taking political considerations into account before selecting a fighter.

With the $10 billion deal expected to grow to almost double the figure as the IAF will in all possibility order more than the 126 aircraft specified in the contract, participating nations have been applying diplomatic pressure on India with most visiting heads of state raising the issue at bilateral talks.

$10 bn fighter aircraft deal may be signed before July: Air Force Chief

 

[kingdurgaking]

Don't underestimate the potentials of MMRCAs, an EF with AESA imo is better than the MKI in A2A and Rafale can hold pretty well against MKI in A2G. And as we know, there is a possibility that the number of MMRCAs will rise to at least 200. If that is enough to call it backbone or not, is not the important point imo, but some of them has the capability for it.

Are u sure MKI will be beaten by EFT and Rafale.. i doubt it?.... BVR or WVR MKI can any day survive and w.r.t Rafale in A2g are you kidding? Rafale cant carry Brahmos along with usefult payload.. while MKI can surely do.. and post super upgrade i dont know what will be its performance... it will be surely unmatched..

 

[MilSpec]

[Self Delete

 

[Archie]

Are u sure MKI will be beaten by EFT and Rafale.. i doubt it?.... BVR or WVR MKI can any day survive and w.r.t Rafale in A2g are you kidding? Rafale cant carry Brahmos along with usefult payload.. while MKI can surely do.. and post super upgrade i dont know what will be its performance... it will be surely unmatched..

Dude , get ur facts right
EFT is by far the best air superiority fighter available in the world apart from F22 Raptor ,it also has an RCS of under 1 compared to MKI which has about 10 sqm
While u are correct that Rafale cant carry Brahmos , but there is a cruise missile which it can carry and that is SCALP/Storm Shadow , which has a range of 250 Km and payload of 400 Kg , and unlike the Brahmos it can also carry nuclear warheads

French have even offered 120 SCALP cruise missiles as part of weapon's package


Apart from all this Rafale is an advancement over the Mirage 2000v5 WHICH WE want our mirages to become
as u know mirage 2000 are the best ground attack platform which we currently have

Rafale also can carry a 9500 Kg payload and has a range of 3700 Km , so it is best aircraft in mmrca , capable of deep strike mission , and compared to F/A18 Superhornet , it comes without any strings attached

 

[MilSpec]

Dude , get ur facts right
EFT is by far the best air superiority fighter available in the world apart from F22 Raptor ,it also has an RCS of under 1 compared to MKI which has about 10 sqm
While u are correct that Rafale cant carry Brahmos , but there is a cruise missile which it can carry and that is SCALP/Storm Shadow , which has a range of 250 Km and payload of 400 Kg , and unlike the Brahmos it can also carry nuclear warheads
Apart from all this Rafale is an advancement over the Mirage 2000v5 WHICH WE want our mirages to become
as u know mirage 2000 are the best ground attack platform which we currently have

Rafale also can carry a 9500 Kg payload and has a range of 3700 Km , so it is best aircraft in mmrca , capable of deep strike mission , and compared to F/A18 Superhornet , it comes without any strings attached

MKI will get an AESA upgrade... even without it, N011 BARS is unmatched in its performance and IMO i think the western world still has no clue about the range of its performance.
WVR dogfight EFT is toast
BVR depends on the Radar, countermeasure.. BVR missile.. etc and ramjet R77 RVV-MD(R77M1) it still out ranges the EADS Meteor/AIM 120D.

SU30MKI can outmaneuver EFT in WVR... also SU30 is faster than EFT...

I dont think there is anything out there other than may be mig 35 OVT that can out maneuver SU30MKI in a dogfight...

 

[kingdurgaking]

Dude , get ur facts right
EFT is by far the best air superiority fighter available in the world apart from F22 Raptor ,it also has an RCS of under 1 compared to MKI which has about 10 sqm
While u are correct that Rafale cant carry Brahmos , but there is a cruise missile which it can carry and that is SCALP/Storm Shadow , which has a range of 250 Km and payload of 400 Kg , and unlike the Brahmos it can also carry nuclear warheads

French have even offered 120 SCALP cruise missiles as part of weapon's package


Apart from all this Rafale is an advancement over the Mirage 2000v5 WHICH WE want our mirages to become
as u know mirage 2000 are the best ground attack platform which we currently have

Rafale also can carry a 9500 Kg payload and has a range of 3700 Km , so it is best aircraft in mmrca , capable of deep strike mission , and compared to F/A18 Superhornet , it comes without any strings attached

what do you mean by Air superiority?? It has to fire missile any way right?? What superior missile it has got compared to Archer?? MKI has several technologies like EFT to ourmanouveour missiles and ofcourse it can engage more EFT's at the same time compare to EFT engaging MKI... secondly it is a deep strike fighter.. which means it is prepared for engaging in a highly hostile situation... while cruise missile cannot be more that 300KM because of MRT that is why we are integerating Nirbhay and u know the payload of MKI?

 

[angeldemon_007]

Su30 is not good in dog fight??? Please Enlighten

Are you sure..?? Su-30 MKI is the most agile and maneuverable Plane ever flown..

What to enlighten ??/ Su30 is agile and maneuverable in its category. Its an air superiority fighter and not meant for dogfight. You guys should check out that thread of Aero India, in that a Rafale fighter said that Su30 is a fascinating machine but its too bulky and not good for dogfight. Our Rafale has very easily beaten them. The same result came in Indo-UK practice.

Read this...
Air superiority fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These aircraft could sacrifice high maneuverability, and instead focus on remaining performance characteristics, as they presumably would never engage into dogfight with enemy fighters.

One more thing about Air superiority fighters is that they are purchased in small numbers but we have placed orders upto 270 and HAL expects 40-42 more.

Have mki ever worked next to next with F15 during any exercise ??? I would love to see how does it perform as compared to US counterpart.

 

[luckyyy]

Have mki ever worked next to next with F15 during any exercise ??? I would love to see how does it perform as compared to US counterpart.

cope india 2004 , 2005 , 2006.........

Cope India 2004 caused uproar inside DoD and in Washington. The IAF did not fly its top-end Su-30MKI aircrafts, instead the older un-upgraded Su-30MKs and Su-30Ks. The Cope India exercises seemed to reflect badly on the US F-15 and F-16 fighters when facing the Su-30. Rep. Duke Cunningham (R-CA) said in a Feb. 26 House Appropriations defense subcommittee hearing that U.S. F-15Cs were defeated more than 90 percent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF.

 

[sancho]

Are u sure MKI will be beaten by EFT and Rafale.. i doubt it?.... BVR or WVR MKI can any day survive and w.r.t Rafale in A2g are you kidding? Rafale cant carry Brahmos along with usefult payload.. while MKI can surely do.. and post super upgrade i dont know what will be its performance... it will be surely unmatched..

EF in A2A is for sure more than a match for the MKI, it is lighter, offers SC with A2A loads (higher speed, better fuel consumption, lower IR signature, because of less use of the AB) has a very low RCS even with A2A weaponary (4 BVR missiles at "semi stealth" fuselage stations), the AESA will be highly capable in terms of range and area it covers, TVC is on offer as well, IRIS-T / METEOR missile combo.

So far MKI is about to carry 1 Brahmos to the same ranges that a Rafale carries 2 Scalp and for the future it is planed that MKI should carry 3 smaller Brahmos, while Rafale should carry 3 Scalp with CFTs as well. The difference comes in the way they fulfill this role!
MKI will try to use Brahmos from distance and at high altitude, to be in a safe distance even it will be detected (RCS) and to give Brahmos more range (recent reports said, that used from high altitudes, Brahmos range could be extended to over 400Km). The missile might be detected early, but the speed will remain it's main advantage to be not countered.
Rafale and Scalp instead have a different approch on this role, because they will use their low RCS and low level, terrain following capabilities to avoid detection and get closer to the target. One more reason why Rafale would complement MKI and why Scalp would be a cost-effective alternative to Brahmos.

French have even offered 120 SCALP cruise missiles as part of weapon's package

Source?

 

[shaktiman2010]

American F-15, F-16 are no match to Su-30. Forget it.

Also its doubtable how stealthy F-22 is, other than marketing propaganda. American stealth effort was based on few copied concepts from Russian journals.

 

[luckyyy]

EF in A2A is for sure more than a match for the MKI, it is lighter, offers SC with A2A loads (higher speed, better fuel consumption, lower IR signature, because of less use of the AB) has a very low RCS even with A2A weaponary (4 BVR missiles at "semi stealth" fuselage stations), the AESA will be highly capable in terms of range and area it covers, TVC is on offer as well, IRIS-T / METEOR missile combo.

So far MKI is about to carry 1 Brahmos to the same ranges that a Rafale carries 2 Scalp and for the future it is planed that MKI should carry 3 smaller Brahmos, while Rafale should carry 3 Scalp with CFTs as well. The difference comes in the way they fulfill this role!
MKI will try to use Brahmos from distance and at high altitude, to be in a safe distance even it will be detected (RCS) and to give Brahmos more range (recent reports said, that used from high altitudes, Brahmos range could be extended to over 400Km). The missile might be detected early, but the speed will remain it's main advantage to be not countered.
Rafale and Scalp instead have a different approch on this role, because they will use their low RCS and low level, terrain following capabilities to avoid detection and get closer to the target. One more reason why Rafale would complement MKI and why Scalp would be a cost-effective alternative to Brahmos.

Scalp been origanally 1000km but under international convention only a <300km range missiles can be exported...then what's the advantage of buying 300km Scalp when india developing it's own 1000km nirbhay..

 

[kingdurgaking]

EF in A2A is for sure more than a match for the MKI, it is lighter, offers SC with A2A loads (higher speed, better fuel consumption, lower IR signature, because of less use of the AB) has a very low RCS even with A2A weaponary (4 BVR missiles at "semi stealth" fuselage stations), the AESA will be highly capable in terms of range and area it covers, TVC is on offer as well, IRIS-T / METEOR missile combo.

So far MKI is about to carry 1 Brahmos to the same ranges that a Rafale carries 2 Scalp and for the future it is planed that MKI should carry 3 smaller Brahmos, while Rafale should carry 3 Scalp with CFTs as well. The difference comes in the way they fulfill this role!
MKI will try to use Brahmos from distance and at high altitude, to be in a safe distance even it will be detected (RCS) and to give Brahmos more range (recent reports said, that used from high altitudes, Brahmos range could be extended to over 400Km). The missile might be detected early, but the speed will remain it's main advantage to be not countered.
Rafale and Scalp instead have a different approch on this role, because they will use their low RCS and low level, terrain following capabilities to avoid detection and get closer to the target. One more reason why Rafale would complement MKI and why Scalp would be a cost-effective alternative to Brahmos.

Super cruise or AB is not a factor in A2A engagement dear it is the weapon.. what remains is in how much distance MKI or EF detect eacho other and doest it have a weapon to lock at that distance.. and for WVR i guess EFT will be never a match with MKI .. it is a piece of cake.... even with BVR ranges MKI and EFT can surely outsmart each others missile.. MKI PESA radar has sure added much of detection range and tracking ranges owing to his size and power.. i am sure EFT radar never comes into this hemisphere.. MKI radar has been called mini Awacs...

Coming to Rafale ... MKI can carry brahmos and decent payload along with.. it has a payload of atleast 14 tonnes which Rafale can never match.. and it will be programmed to carry Nirbhay...