Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[kingdurgaking]

Carrying much load is one thing, but it doesn't mean it is good for any type of strikes. Preemptive strikes, or deep penetration strikes in enemy territory, will be very difficult for the MKI with its big RCS. Especially because we have very capable opponents with AWACS support, here exactly the MMRCAs should offer different atvantages for IAF, to be able to do any role that is needed. Not to forget that we will get an A2A fighter fighter before the next deacade, that will be way more capable than any MMRCA anyway.
F16IN would have been a good choice if PAF wouldn't use it for years and wouldn't have all the US restrictions, just like the SH will have. Which leaves us with the Rafale which is the closest in A2G to the SH and in some regards even superior.

But sirjeee with such enemy capability we will need only 5th gen fighters because any 4th gen fighters will appear in AWACS coverage very easily... RCS will be a pure BS w.r.t to AWACS... so Tactics and and fighter capability is the only option.. and MKI with Novotar should do some tricks ... so MKI is the only capable aircraft for deep strike mission..

 

[playtimeover]

Hi Pyongyang. Yeah you are right.

 

[MAFIAN GOD]

Carrying much load is one thing, but it doesn't mean it is good for any type of strikes. Preemptive strikes, or deep penetration strikes in enemy territory, will be very difficult for the MKI with its big RCS. Especially because we have very capable opponents with AWACS support, here exactly the MMRCAs should offer different atvantages for IAF, to be able to do any role that is needed. Not to forget that we will get an A2A fighter fighter before the next deacade, that will be way more capable than any MMRCA anyway.
F16IN would have been a good choice if PAF wouldn't use it for years and wouldn't have all the US restrictions, just like the SH will have. Which leaves us with the Rafale which is the closest in A2G to the SH and in some regards even superior.

MY MISTAKE
I FORGOT TO CONSIDER THE RCS FACTOR

 

[MAFIAN GOD]

so you want to leave the A2G duties to your precious MKi? and just buy a A2A bird like Typhoon..?

Nothing beats the SuperHornet in A2G, nothing but heavy fighters like MKis or Strike Eagles..

SIR I DIDN'T MEAN TO LEAVE ALL A2G DUTIES ON MKI BUT I WAS SAYING THAT WE CAN RELY ON AN AIRCRAFT WHICH IS BETTER IN A2A ROLE RATHER THAN A2G ROLE.

 

[sancho]

^^ EFT does have a deficit of 1100kg fuel while carrying the litening 3 pod for A2G missions.

Tranche 3A was supposed to incorporate conformal fuel tanks to tackle this problem. Don't know their current status, though.

Actually only UK is interested in CFTs so far and they started some studies, as well as windtunnel models and mock ups, but nothing is really in development AFAIK and far away from beeing developed:

Once again it shows the potential of the EF, if it would be developed and funded properly and why I always say, a fully developed and capable EF would be a hell of a fighter. However, I don't have much hope for it anymore.

 

[sancho]

But sirjee if we need external tanks the purpose of mid air refuelling is defeated because behind enemy lines i dont think any fighter will carry external fuel tanks but will depend on internal fuel for mission because those tank will impact the fighter's performance...

That's why the fighters eject the drop tanks before getting into air combats, but till then they of course use the drop tanks.

But sirjee based on image we cant assume EFT can carry only 500 kg LGB right?.. It has higher thrust and it can for sure carry 1000kg LGB also what say??

The one has nothing to do with the other, the EF carries only 500Kg PGMs in the pic, because it has only 3 heavy weapon stations for heavy weapons, or fuel tanks. So if it carries 2 fuel tanks, only the centerline station is left for a 1000Kg bomb, but that is occupied with the TP so far. As I said, even the Gripen NG, or E/F can carry more in A2G (but of course with less flight performance), which gives you an idea of the EF A2G capabilities that are possible at the moment, or in near future. Only with CFTs it will be able to improve that, but check my reply to ganimi kawa.

Sirjee every fighter in IAF has ground striking capability ... especially MKI which is being optimized now to carry Brahmos... I have Pics and config where MKI carries heavy Bombs and its a true swing role fighter... Come to Mirage it has proved its capability to strike Grounds.. LCA is tested to drop Precision bombs so far and it is now converted to a pure Multi role...

Multi role doesn't mean equally good in A2A and A2G (at least for most of the fighters), they are always aimed on one role and gets additional capabilities in the other too. MKIs ain advantage in strike role are attacks from distances, with A2G missiles, or heavy strikes. But it still remainy mainly an air superiority fighter. That's why the Russians for example build a dedicated strike version of the Flanker, for low level strike attacks, although it has the same payload, weapons, number of pylons like the Su 35, or the Su 30s. So adding some capabilities doesn't make MKI equal to Su 34, or F18SH, which is the best strike fighter in MMRCA.
LCA is even less a strike fighter, its main aim is interception and in addition to that CAS mainly. As I told you, with 2 + 2 A2A missiles and 2 fuel tanks, only a single weapon station will be left for A2G weapons. That means it can carry 1 1000Kg PGM, 1 anti ship, or 1 heavier stand off missile to longer distances, which is not comparable to MMRCA capabilities. That is also the main reason why I say it is way too limited to be a good carrier fighter!
Btw, as far as I know LCA only dropped dumb bombs so far, although the litening pod was integrated. I never saw it dropping any KAB bombs and I guess it will get the new Indian LGB, but both have to be ready first, the fighter and the weapon.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Multi role doesn't mean equally good in A2A and A2G (at least for most of the fighters), they are always aimed on one role and gets additional capabilities in the other too. MKIs ain advantage in strike role are attacks from distances, with A2G missiles, or heavy strikes. But it still remainy mainly an air superiority fighter. That's why the Russians for example build a dedicated strike version of the Flanker, for low level strike attacks, although it has the same payload, weapons, number of pylons like the Su 35, or the Su 30s. So adding some capabilities doesn't make MKI equal to Su 34, or F18SH, which is the best strike fighter in MMRCA.
LCA is even less a strike fighter, its main aim is interception and in addition to that CAS mainly. As I told you, with 2 + 2 A2A missiles and 2 fuel tanks, only a single weapon station will be left for A2G weapons. That means it can carry 1 1000Kg PGM, 1 anti ship, or 1 heavier stand off missile to longer distances, which is not comparable to MMRCA capabilities. That is also the main reason why I say it is way too limited to be a good carrier fighter!
Btw, as far as I know LCA only dropped dumb bombs so far, although the litening pod was integrated. I never saw it dropping any KAB bombs and I guess it will get the new Indian LGB, but both have to be ready first, the fighter and the weapon.

Everything is fine sirjee.... but i dont think Ground attacks are that seriously tough than A2A combat for an fighter.. Ground attacks will have to face the ground force as well as Air Force.. Further a litening Pod is not needed to be carried by the same fighter but a different fighter will also do the task just as we did in Kargil... Secondly For ground or Air attack apart from fighter capabilities it is the bombs that will do the job... but for Air you need a radar which is more complex than a A2g bomb what is your opinion on this?.. But for a ground we dont need that .. even a TV guided missile/bomb is enough unless the bomb has the capability to hit with precision because i believe Bomb size matters for bombing in a mission (what is your take on this).. For Missile like Brahmos it is almost Fire and Forget... As per the current IAF inventory every Fighter has got this capability ... for PAF we dont need to worry much because existing fighters deployed are more than enough to defend them.. for PLAAF we need more capable Air superiority fighter because MKI are kept for bombing the ground assets there and we have lot of news stating the same about the role of MKI deployed there..

That is why i always say we need more Air superiority as compared to A2G

 

[sancho]

Secondly For ground or Air attack apart from fighter capabilities it is the bombs that will do the job... but for Air you need a radar which is more complex than a A2g bomb what is your opinion on this?.. But for a ground we dont need that .. even a TV guided missile/bomb is enough unless the bomb has the capability to hit with precision because i believe Bomb size matters for bombing in a mission (what is your take on this)..

I'm a bit confused about which fighter you are talking now, if it's still about EF then it has only LGB that needs guidance, unlike Rafale, or F18SH that has GPS guided bombs as well as A2G missiles.
I also think that radar is not the deciding requirement in MMRCA, IAF wants an AESA but it don't have to be the one with the highest range, because upgrade MKI, Pak Fa / FGFA will most likely have better radars and we have AWACSs support. So I think the advantage of conecting the MMRCA passivelly with those would be a bigger advantage, than having another long range radar.

for PAF we dont need to worry much because existing fighters deployed are more than enough to defend them.. for PLAAF we need more capable Air superiority fighter because MKI are kept for bombing the ground assets there and we have lot of news stating the same about the role of MKI deployed there..

I see it exatly the other way around, IAF sees the MKI as their main air superiority fighter even above MMRCAs and that's why they don't need similar capabilities again. They need something that will add new capabilities and weapons to the fleet and alongside MKI and in future Pak Fa/ FGFA. That's why I'm pretty sure fighters like the Mig, Gripen and EF, that are mainly aimed on A2A, can't win this competition.
And as I already explained before, MKI will do strikes mainly from distance (Kh 59 250+ Km, Brahmos up to 300Km), but to cross border and remain undetected as long as possible, we need fighters with lower RCSs and good low level attack capabilities. That is what Rafale and F18SH could offer.

 

[SpArK]

WTF is going on...

Typhoon deal boost BAE jobs​

Tuesday 9th November 2010


AN EAST Lancashire-made fighter jet is set to clinch a bumper £3billion deal with the Indian military, providing a major jobs boost.

Air force chiefs in the Asian country are believed to be on the verge of buying 126 Eurofighter Typhoons, the aircraft built by engineers at BAE Systems’ plants in Samlesbury and Warton.

Although any deal would lead to a Typhoon base being built in India, it would also lead to an increase in workload in Lancashire.

Hundreds of Samlesbury engineers work on the Typhoon fuselage. Final assembly work on the aircraft takes place at BAE’s Warton plant.

Plumbing firm wins homes refurbishment contract BURNLEY-based plumbing merchant James Hargreaves is flushed with success after winning a home refurbishment contract in Hyndburn.

The firm, based in Parliament Street, Burnley, has teamed up with another company to supply heating and bathroom kits for all properties run by the housing association, Hyndburn Homes, for the next three months.

Manager Dave Blackburn said: “It is certainly keeping us busy.”


Typhoon deal boost BAE jobs (From Lancashire Telegraph)

 

[SpArK]

Air Forces Fly with Carl Zeiss Helmet Tracking System ​

November 8, 2010

Deliveries of the new Helmet Mounted Systems for the Eurofighter tactical aircraft have now begun. Carl Zeiss Optronics supplies the helmet tracking system for these planes. Two cameras behind the pilot are aimed at the infrared diodes in the helmet. The system recognizes the pilot’s line of sight through the movement of his head.

A key feature is the promptness of the tracking function that continuously locks onto targets. It helps the pilot track, aim and fire external weapons systems. The modern quick release mechanism separates the cables from the helmet at lightning speed, ensuring that functions such as the ejector seat remain unimpaired in the event of an emergency. The helmet tracking system offers the excellent flexibility and adaptability associated with the long-established German company: Carl Zeiss Optronics has developed a helmet attachment for other aircraft types, allowing extensive installation of the tracking capabilities.


The tracking system is part of the new Helmet Mounted Systems for air forces in the UK, Spain, Italy and Germany. As a visor in the helmet, it shows the pilot important flight and weapon target data, regardless of his line of sight. This manmachine interaction makes the system truly unique.

defpro.

 

[syntax_error]

WTF is going on...

Typhoon deal boost BAE jobs​

Tuesday 9th November 2010


AN EAST Lancashire-made fighter jet is set to clinch a bumper £3billion deal with the Indian military, providing a major jobs boost.


Air force chiefs in the Asian country are believed to be on the verge of buying 126 Eurofighter Typhoons, the aircraft built by engineers at BAE Systems’ plants in Samlesbury and Warton.

Although any deal would lead to a Typhoon base being built in India, it would also lead to an increase in workload in Lancashire.

Hundreds of Samlesbury engineers work on the Typhoon fuselage. Final assembly work on the aircraft takes place at BAE’s Warton plant.

Plumbing firm wins homes refurbishment contract BURNLEY-based plumbing merchant James Hargreaves is flushed with success after winning a home refurbishment contract in Hyndburn.

The firm, based in Parliament Street, Burnley, has teamed up with another company to supply heating and bathroom kits for all properties run by the housing association, Hyndburn Homes, for the next three months.

Manager Dave Blackburn said: “It is certainly keeping us busy.”


Typhoon deal boost BAE jobs (From Lancashire Telegraph)

3 billion pound deal for 126 aircraft .....?????

 

[SpArK]

 

[SpArK]

The Eurofighter Typhoon military aircraft performs during the opening of the 46th Paris Air Show at Le Bourget near Paris.

 

[SpArK]

Brazil likely to chose Dassault's Rafale over Saab's Gripen, media says​

Posted on: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 11:12:02 EST


8 November 2010 - Brazil's president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, will probably not award a deal for 36 fighter jets to Swedish group Saab AB , but will prefer French Dassault Aviation , Brazilian newspaper Valor Economico reported without naming any sources.

Dassault's Rafale will reportedly be the president's first choice in the tender, beating Saab's Jas 39 Gripen, according to Valor Economico. US player Boeing Co (NYSE: BA | PowerRating), with its F/A-18 Super Hornet, is also competing for the deal, which has been valued at USD1.8bn.

Last week, Lula da Silva said he would talk with the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, regarding the tender and that the decision will be made together with Brazil's president-elect Dilma Rousseff, who will take office on 1 January 2011.

According to reports in Brazilian media, a decision or an announcement on the tender could come in connection with the closing of Cruzex, a South American aerial combat training event hosted by Brazil, on 19 November 2010. Rafale will participate in the event for the first time.

Brazil likely to chose Dassault's Rafale over Saab's Gripen, media says | TradingMarkets.com

 

[CONNAN]

UK to push India on Typhoon - Defence Management