Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[BON PLAN]

No true stealth plane is round shaped.

round? except the nose..... no curve !

Super cruise with 50KN dry engine? No way. Please provide some credible source for your claim.

2 x 50Kn !
Dassault is a master in aerodynamic... it's well known, even in business jet.

A credible source? official documentation on Dassault stand in 2015 Le Bourget air show.

F-35 helmet is computer in pilot's face. It provides complete HUD and motion controls inside pilot's helmet. A ground breaking feature of its kind. No other plane has this feature. not even Rafale.

The F35 helmet main quality is that it can break the pilot's neck. Maybe it's why they have limlited the plane to 7G !!!

Design choices. They had to choose between maneuverability and stealth.

Strange. The same company was able to have stealth and agility with older F22 ....

Thruth is that they want the plane to be agile, but it fails because of too much compromises. F35 will be good nowhere and average everywhere.

You are including early development costs. F35's flyaway cost is $90 million and soon will fall down to $70 million.

Still even if we count it is a $100+ mill plane it still is cheaper then Rafale which was sold to Indian Air Force at a ripoff price of $220 million a piece for 36 planes.

More and more funny !
Now it's not "less than 100$million" ? you have received this night a LM news that the plane will fall to 70 $ million ?

YOU ARE AN IDIOT BRO. sorry for you.

See the real price structure of Indian Rafale deal : do you math if it's not too hard for you.

 

[Taygibay]

Super cruise with 50KN dry engine? No way. Please provide some credible source for your claim.

I'm not going to address all your errors in the last 3 pages, mate,
because ... well there are too many of them and too little of my time
but on the above for example, you seem to ignore that engine power
is not the sole factor in establishing maximum speed for an aircraft.

Marcel Dassault said "a beautifull plane is a plane that fly well".

For example, a smoother airflow will incur less drag and thus
clear the power to speed equation of some negative values.
That is what Dassault meant and he was entirely right.

Maybe he was a genius but that statement was dumb as a rock.

Actually, the statement is bright but Marcel missed using
his immense wits to explain down to the level of a rock.

​

Those were plays on the mistakes that the idiot made. Read his post, then read mine.

I got that, old mate, and yet understand why one would not get it too
so let me offer an artistic variant to your humour :

Pathetic. Criticising a poor guy just because he likes colour in his flags. Read his posts, read the content (not this one, but one that has content). And look at his brilliant, autistic use of emoticons.

As one can see, Joe actually showed restraint!
It could have gone much worse; it often does!*

Good day to those who want it, Tay.

* Overall, it discourages real information exchange,
even for serious posters I may add.



P.S. About :

Weren't you the tiger-heart screaming for the moderators to step in? LOL.
Hilarious.
When it's you, everythings all right, you are carrying forward the total ambience of the group.
When it's someone else, then you scream for the moderators.

In his defense, he's used to a different kind of moderation.
Let's give the chap time to adjust?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'm not going to address all your errors in the last 3 pages, mate,
because ... well there are too many of them and too little of my time
but on the above for example, you seem to ignore that engine power
is not the sole factor in establishing maximum speed for an aircraft.



For example, a smoother airflow will incur less drag and thus
clear the power to speed equation of some negative values.
That is what Dassault meant and he was entirely right.



Actually, the statement is bright but Marcel missed using
his immense wits to explain down to the level of a rock.

​

I got that, old mate, and yet understand why one would not get it too
so let me offer an artistic variant to your humour :



As one can see, Joe actually showed restraint!
It could have gone much worse; it often does!*

Good day to those who want it, Tay.

* Overall, it discourages real information exchange,
even for serious posters I may add.



P.S. About :


In his defense, he's used to a different kind of moderation.
Let's give the chap time to adjust?

Aah, how I miss your dry wit. Thanks, Tay.

 

[Taygibay]

YVW!​

 

[Taygibay]

https://www.reuters.com/article/das...th-india-about-more-rafale-jets-idUSP6N1JB02C

Excerpt :

The chief executive of Dassault Aviation on Tuesday said the company was still in discussions
with India over the possible purchase of additional twin-engine Rafale fighter jets,
on top of the 36 ones India ordered in 2016.
. . .
“We’re talking about additional jets.
Nothing is decided, but we’re not going to stop at 36.”​

Great day all, Tay.

 

[X_Killer]

https://www.reuters.com/article/das...th-india-about-more-rafale-jets-idUSP6N1JB02C

Excerpt :

The chief executive of Dassault Aviation on Tuesday said the company was still in discussions
with India over the possible purchase of additional twin-engine Rafale fighter jets,
on top of the 36 ones India ordered in 2016.
. . .
“We’re talking about additional jets.
Nothing is decided, but we’re not going to stop at 36.”​

Great day all, Tay.

18 units are more likely as urgent order because there is already an option for additional 18 units which is mentioned in Rafale G2G contract.This makes Dassualt to engage in deliveries of Rafales to India by 2023. Apart from this Dassault already said that DRAL will be able to produce MII Rafales from 2023 onwards (If they got considerable orders).

 

[Taygibay]

^^^​

Trappier dixit : ... on top of the 36 ones India ordered in 2016.

So beyond the 18 options.

Good day to you, Tay.

 

[Taygibay]

So many options from gripen ,16,18,mig,su30mki,su35& Rafale,. But no purchases so far. Pathetic....

In fact, we have no options. We have enormous targets to meet, in the basic needs of our citizens, and in improving the conditions in which we live. Our defence expenditure is forced on us by a hostile neighbourhood, and by the need to preserve our democratic way of life against the hostility and ill-will of these neighbours. This is a forced expense, and every naya paisa saved is useful. Let us not be cavalier about expenditure, other than essential expenditure on food, clothing and housing, on health care and education, on building facilities and infrastructure needed for creation of 13 million jobs a year.

Well, then! Let's be rational.

In order to fit the above paradigm, the zoo has to close!

MKI is a mainstay.
LCA should be too, shoulda been, etc but is it? IF the LCA
CAN do the job after some tweaking, buy as many as you
NEED considering its abilities. If it really can't, just make it a QF.

Then pick one bird only to do the rest and adjust its numbers
according to MEANS.

That will leave the IAF with a much smaller zoo, a petting zoo.
But that menagerie (recent Migs, Jags, M2K, Rafales ) will go
away eventually with time. When it does, India will need AMCA.

By adhering to such a plan, India saves enough on commonality
with only two main types at the forefront of daily use to clear
the path from Tejas to the real jewel ( AMCA or derivative ).

Pick that one plane carefully and for a change, do that quickly!!!
If it's the Rafale as the IAF would prefer, go to MII A.F.S.A.P.!!
If it's a single engine, stay at 36 Rafales, not one more incl. IN,
bite the financial pill that this deal alone would be and go to work
on churning out the required number of the single engine picked!

MKI-one yet undefined workhorse-LCA variable ... and menagerie
turns into MKI/successor_AMCA project result_undef. workhorse.

In such conditions, all the research money can go to AMCA effort.

I read Hydra : India has all the options which may be too much?

For Pete's sake, just buy decisions if you can't make them locally!

Fingers crossed on that ( so hard they're turning blue ), Tay.

 

[leapx]

I dont think it is that hard to believe Rafale/Typhoon can Super cruise without after-burning.

I even read report that Gripen can Super cruise. I checked it. It was reported that Gripen E did that during a test.

But if super cruise is not take into consideration during design of engine/aircraft, Specific fuel consumption may go too high. It can but it is pointless to do.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Well, then! Let's be rational.

In order to fit the above paradigm, the zoo has to close!

MKI is a mainstay.
LCA should be too, shoulda been, etc but is it? IF the LCA
CAN do the job after some tweaking, buy as many as you
NEED considering its abilities. If it really can't, just make it a QF.

Then pick one bird only to do the rest and adjust its numbers
according to MEANS.

That will leave the IAF with a much smaller zoo, a petting zoo.
But that menagerie (recent Migs, Jags, M2K, Rafales ) will go
away eventually with time. When it does, India will need AMCA.

By adhering to such a plan, India saves enough on commonality
with only two main types at the forefront of daily use to clear
the path from Tejas to the real jewel ( AMCA or derivative ).

Pick that one plane carefully and for a change, do that quickly!!!
If it's the Rafale as the IAF would prefer, go to MII A.F.S.A.P.!!
If it's a single engine, stay at 36 Rafales, not one more incl. IN,
bite the financial pill that this deal alone would be and go to work
on churning out the required number of the single engine picked!

MKI-one yet undefined workhorse-LCA variable ... and menagerie
turns into MKI/successor_AMCA project result_undef. workhorse.

In such conditions, all the research money can go to AMCA effort.

I read Hydra : India has all the options which may be too much?

For Pete's sake, just buy decisions if you can't make them locally!

Fingers crossed on that ( so hard they're turning blue ), Tay.

Damn' good note, Taygibay. Really lays out the options in crystal clear terms. I'm going back to re-read it and absorb it.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Well, then! Let's be rational.

In order to fit the above paradigm, the zoo has to close!

MKI is a mainstay.
LCA should be too, shoulda been, etc but is it? IF the LCA
CAN do the job after some tweaking, buy as many as you
NEED considering its abilities. If it really can't, just make it a QF.

Then pick one bird only to do the rest and adjust its numbers
according to MEANS.

That will leave the IAF with a much smaller zoo, a petting zoo.
But that menagerie (recent Migs, Jags, M2K, Rafales ) will go
away eventually with time. When it does, India will need AMCA.

By adhering to such a plan, India saves enough on commonality
with only two main types at the forefront of daily use to clear
the path from Tejas to the real jewel ( AMCA or derivative ).

Pick that one plane carefully and for a change, do that quickly!!!
If it's the Rafale as the IAF would prefer, go to MII A.F.S.A.P.!!
If it's a single engine, stay at 36 Rafales, not one more incl. IN,
bite the financial pill that this deal alone would be and go to work
on churning out the required number of the single engine picked!

MKI-one yet undefined workhorse-LCA variable ... and menagerie
turns into MKI/successor_AMCA project result_undef. workhorse.

In such conditions, all the research money can go to AMCA effort.

I read Hydra : India has all the options which may be too much?

For Pete's sake, just buy decisions if you can't make them locally!

Fingers crossed on that ( so hard they're turning blue ), Tay.

We have to replace Five planes
That is Mig 21 ; Mig 27 ; Mirage 2000 ; Jaguar and Mig 29

They will be replaced by Rafales ; F 16 ; LCA

 

[X_Killer]

I dont think it is that hard to believe Rafale/Typhoon can Super cruise without after-burning.

You are contradicting yourself.
You must go through the definition
Supercruise: supersonic without afterburner.

Typhoon can go Mach 1.5 supercruise where Rafale can reach up to Mach 1.4

Also, supercruise is economic , effective as well as efficient.

Good Day

We have to replace Five planes
That is Mig 21 ; Mig 27 ; Mirage 2000 ; Jaguar and Mig 29

They will be replaced by Rafales ; F 16 ; LCA

You missed AMCA ...

 

[Taygibay]

They will be replaced by Rafales ; F 16 ; LCA

You missed AMCA ...

That's the whole thing, the present and next local product!
You must clear a path for them. The 21s and 27s & 29s are goners.
Right now, India is upgrading both the Jags and Mirages which
isn't free and at the same time inducting, fixing and upgrading
the Tejas ( to Mk1-A ) and then there might be a Mark 2, right?
That's a lot of work without even the prospective AMCA.

Reducing the Rafale/F16/Gripen to one pick backed 100% is
the best way to go money wise.

Damn' good note, Taygibay. Really lays out the options in crystal clear terms.

Thank you, my good mate! I'm really tired of the daydreamers.

Heck, according to some, we forgot F-35, MiG-35, FGFA, etc.
If the one billion PMs of India had their way, the IAF would buy
a dozen of each fighter made or soon to come.

The farce has to stop.

Great day all, Tay.

 

[BON PLAN]

I dont think it is that hard to believe Rafale/Typhoon can Super cruise without after-burning.

I even read report that Gripen can Super cruise. I checked it. It was reported that Gripen E did that during a test.

But if super cruise is not take into consideration during design of engine/aircraft, Specific fuel consumption may go too high. It can but it is pointless to do.

All depend of what means "supercruise".
mach 1,01 without PC ?
mach 1.1?
mach 1.2?
mach 1.5 ?
...

 

[leapx]

All depend of what means "supercruise".
mach 1,01 without PC ?
mach 1.1?
mach 1.2?
mach 1.5 ?
...

I dont know.
But I think first the Mach must be high enough to give weapon considerable advantage on speed/range against your subsonic opponents to call it "super".
Second You get to keep that Mach for considerable time to call it "cruise".
What is the number of F-22?