Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[mirage]

Congrat India for closing the deal and not insisting made in India. Rafale is too complicated to be made in India. Just buy off shelf and quickly get the plane.

What is the made in India component?

sir , speculate only in stock markets is my passion but on a defence forum like PDF where professional's gather and debate ,SO to know what will be make in India component viz-a-viz complicated rafale , we need to wait for few days more . atleast i am sure, make in india wont be beg borrow or steal or for that matter copy and paste in a sweatshop labor camp . and sir do you know , when the big balls of hernia get bigger or for that matter try to increase their size , they are very near to painful explosion , that state is called scrotal hernia , i hope you understand what i mean to say but remember that type of hernia , it will be useful in description during treatment which is eminent . bye for now .
( apologies for an off topic reply if it is one which i thought was needful )

 

[Pandemonium]

thats why i said part finance bcz surely other stake holders would be involved..

Good finally its done.. so pic sir, any chance you coming in as consultant in the Indian venture.. you can try surely.. a man of your caliber can change our Aerospace segment,,

do u work in the ministry of defence ? just curious

 

[Bad Guy]

http://m.rediff.com/news/report/def...ences-rafale-deal-in-final-stage/20160415.htm

 

[sathya]

CONGRATULATIONS..

i said what i could after getting to know when i posted in the sticky..

i gave the hint on tuesday

View attachment 300548
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-192#post-8237913

it was good nobody picked it up too much then


and then
View attachment 300547

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-193#post-8242769

its in line with what i earlier said about less than Euro 8bn or less than Rs 60000 crs.. i was hoping for 56000 crs but i am still fine with 59000 crs..

potential for jets in merignac line is more like 100 and indian line is 300.. unless something changes drastically IAF+IN together will operate 400 rafales mostly the Rafale of F3R2 and NG designations..

Its gonna be a quasi 5th Gen and will provide us with a unmatched capability...

so its time for

ps: time for multiple green ticks and positive ratings for me!!!

How can we pick such hints! When we had seen such hints for N number of times.
I will keep in mind for the next time, though..

do u work in the ministry of defence ? just curious

Some one asked if he is DM Parikkar

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Irfan Baloch @waz

Can you show some love here?
Few people are jumping too high on distracted and fabricated news of confirmation of Rafale induction.
But in reality its India Media playing cheap again. Rafale deal is in final phase and YET TO FINALIZE

here is link related to it.............plz correct the misleading Title and edit the posts spreading rumors based upon assumptions............

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...afale-fighter-jets-enter-final-stage-2755390/

i cant care less to be honest with you
by the way .. that Bilawal guy in FB really lacks basic social skills..

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I would say All support packages - Euro 2.1 Bn is too high and Customization - Euro 0.8 Bn is too low.

One flying hour all inclusive for Rafale is 10000 $

So 1 year support is 250 hours so 2500000 $ for 10 years it's 25 millions and for 36 planes it's 0.9 Billions.

I think that it was one way to reduce the price to limit support to 10 years.

I think also that upgrading the bases will cost a little bit more.

base price was initially Euro 1.4 Bn but after much haggling it has been reduced to Euro 1.1 Bn..

Support package basically contains everything.. what could be further broken down in direct and indirect costs and technology cost...

modifications have come down a bit.. primarily the NG version of missiles are not ready... of course a part of support package cost built in has 2 active component costs
1. RBE 2 AESA partial codes
2. Spectra + upgrade partial codes.
3. Few other items codes

all are partial codes implying India can add and customize but i dont think we can transfer and copy to other jets except one specific program AMCA where cooperation officially will be declared for specific technology help.

This actually allows us to integrate the indian weapon systems and later test+certify it...

Even though we like MICA+meteor combo we may end up with MICA+Astra and even a possibility of Derby+Derby ER+ AstraMk2 is there..

India is negotiating with rafael industries to locally make Derby owing to the fact that Derby,python and Derby ER will become mainstay of LCA fleet which is bound to reach 300 jets.. so wont be surprised if they like to use the same in Rafales as well over time..

The brahmos original plan of mounting is now taken over by 42 dedicated Su30 MkI.. the NG Brahmos is 5-7 years away.. so when it comes it will be integrated..

Thus the customization part cost came down partially with technology codes payment and doing certain customization later when available

the price of jets+weapons is more or less fixed and is a marked improvement from earlier $93 mn to now $85 Mn or Euro 70-75 Mn

 

[Taygibay]

The lift comes from delta wings. Canrads are for better maneuverability..

Top back Pic, it is precisely because of the canards that low speeds for carrier landing were achieved.
There are countless documents, written and video, with Dassault people stating the fact.

Good day all, Tay.

 

[Abingdonboy]

CISMOA would have been mandatory if we would have gone for F 18

Now there is NO NEED for it because Rafale is done

Yup. Exactly. Something those mindless F-18 promoters couldn't seem to fathom, the American deal contained oh so much more that India didn't want so no matter what price it was sold to India if would be a terrible deal.

price break up approx

2 bases - Euro 1.1 Bn x 2 = 2.2 Bn
Flyaway + weapons - Euro 2.7 Bn
All support packages - Euro 2.1 Bn
Customization - Euro 0.8 Bn

The flyaway + weapons - Euro 75 Mn or USD 84.75 Mn - the same as MMRCA $85 Mn

Removing weapons cost of USD 10-15 mn implies flyaway at USD 70-75 mn range or Euro 62-66 Mn.

after removing the VAT and adding marginal corporate profit, DA has given a solid deal to India where its going to use VOLUMES as a key to make humongous profit over next 20 years of production till 2035 and almost 5-6 decades of presence in Indian defense arena

@Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @Vauban @Taygibay

Bro post this in the ongoing live thread, some members asked for this and won't visit here so it would be a good for them to get a rough idea.

 

[Su-11]

Lol, they have reported in Euros so that the figure will seem less.
It's 8.8 billion dollars or 245 million dollars per fuckin plane!!

Since we are a rich country with zero poverty and starvation, we can afford this? Who on earth buys just 36 planes, that too for 8.8 billion dollars!! The logistics for this just 2 squadrons of 36 planes, the spares, the maintanance, the training, the specialized hangars.... OMG my head is spinning!

This is like the story of golden gates to protect the mud hut inside.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Yup. Exactly. Something those mindless F-18 promoters couldn't seem to fathom, the American deal contained oh so much more that India didn't want so no matter what price it was sold to India if would be a terrible deal.

read these ss my good friend..

and the icing in the cake

notice the word "operational" benefits to USAF AND USN

all this from here

http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR1000/RR1021/RAND_RR1021.pdf

enjoy the truth of what USA really wants and think tanks says..

++
ps you remember i said about A&N base thing...

 

[Sankpal]

is there any news about mig 29 and mirage 2000 fighter plane modernization status?

how many fighters upgraded?

 

[Srinivas]

India is also planning to manufacture American jets either F16's or F18's or both of them. The production lines in USA are/will be closed but they will be running in India.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

the deal price break up

price break up approx

2 bases - Euro 1.1 Bn x 2 = 2.2 Bn
Flyaway + weapons - Euro 2.7 Bn
All support packages - Euro 2.1 Bn
Customization - Euro 0.8 Bn

The flyaway + weapons - Euro 75 Mn or USD 84.75 Mn - the same as MMRCA $85 Mn

Removing weapons cost of USD 10-15 mn implies flyaway at USD 70-75 mn range or Euro 62-66 Mn.

after removing the VAT and adding marginal corporate profit, DA has given a solid deal to India where its going to use VOLUMES as a key to make humongous profit over next 20 years of production till 2035 and almost 5-6 decades of presence in Indian defense arena

++
some more comments

base price was initially Euro 1.4 Bn but after much haggling it has been reduced to Euro 1.1 Bn..

Support package basically contains everything.. what could be further broken down in direct and indirect costs and technology cost...

modifications have come down a bit.. primarily the NG version of missiles are not ready... of course a part of support package cost built in has 2 active component costs
1. RBE 2 AESA partial codes
2. Spectra + upgrade partial codes.


posted in the sticky..

 

[#hydra#]

CONGRATULATIONS..

i said what i could after getting to know when i posted in the sticky..

i gave the hint on tuesday

View attachment 300545
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-192#post-8237913

it was good nobody picked it up too much then


and then
View attachment 300546

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-193#post-8242769

its in line with what i earlier said about less than Euro 8bn or less than Rs 60000 crs.. i was hoping for 56000 crs but i am still fine with 59000 crs..

potential for jets in merignac line is more like 100 and indian line is 300.. unless something changes drastically IAF+IN together will operate 400 rafales mostly the Rafale of F3R2 and NG designations..

Its gonna be a quasi 5th Gen and will provide us with a unmatched capability...

so its time for

ps: time for multiple green ticks and positive ratings for me!!!

Boss it may sound as offtopic,but pls tell me about pakfa/fgfa.
Will it be materialised?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

is there any news about mig 29 and mirage 2000 fighter plane modernization status?

how many fighters upgraded?

‘Mirage 2000 upgrade for Air Force on track’
NAYANIMA BASU

Upgraded models to sport longer range radars; have improved tactical awareness

Antoine Caput, Vice-President and Country Director (India) of Thales, has said the $2.5 billion-project to upgrade 51 Mirage 2000 fighter jets for the Indian Air Force is going as per schedule and four upgraded jets have been already delivered.

In an interview with BusinessLine, he said the firm is keen to make India its global manufacturing hub and the joint venture with Bharat Electronics (BEL) is progressing well. Excerpts:


How has the progress of upgradation of the ageing Mirage 2000 aircraft been so far? Is it on track?

The project began in July 2011 and since then, Thales and Dassault Aviation have both been working on the upgradation of IAF’s Mirage 2000 fleet.

Four upgraded Mirage 2000 have been delivered to the IAF and the rest of the fleet is being upgraded by HAL with the support of Dassault Aviation and Thales teams as per the contract.

Will this upgrade enhance Air Force’s combat capabilities?

The Mirage 2000’s capabilities will be significantly enhanced and the IAF will have a capable and potent platform for the next 20 years. The upgraded Mirage 2000s will sport longer range radars and improved tactical situation awareness.

They will also have longer-range weapons to engage simultaneous targets with greater stealth. The improved fighters will have an extended operating envelope, with the capability to engage ground targets whilst countering airborne threats.

Recently, the top brass of the IAF expressed concerns over delay in the project. What was the issue?

It is on track, as per schedule. We are working with all partners and in case of any challenge, we will address them as per the contract.

(This article was published on April 14, 2016)

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...ade-for-air-force-on-track/article8476332.ece