Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Hellfire]

If not 50, then 40 ? Still a very very big figure to invest importing a foreign plane.

Lets not buy it .. now what are the options?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Interesting news in vernacular medium
चीन के पास भी नहीं है जो मिसाइल, उससे लैस होंगे भारतीय फाइटर प्लेन
By: नीरज राजपूत, एबीपी न्यूज | Last Updated: Friday, 16 September 2016 9:09 AM

नई दिल्ली : फ्रांस के साथ हुए सौदे में जो 36 राफेल फाइटर प्लेन भारत को मिलने वाले हैं. वे अत्याधुनिक हथियारों और मिसाइलों से लैस हैं. सबसे खास है दुनिया की सबसे घातक समझे जाने वाली हवा से हवा में मार करन वाली मेटेओर (METEOR) मिसाइल. ये मिसाइल चीन तो क्या किसी भी एशियाई देश के पास नहीं है. यानि राफेल प्लेन वाकई दक्षिण-एशिया में गेम-चेंजर साबित हो सकता है.

सूत्रों से मिली जानकारी के मुताबिक, भारत ने राफेल सौदे में करीब 710 मिलियन यूरो (यानि करीब 5341 करोड़ रुपये) लड़ाकू विमानों के हथियारों पर खर्च किए हैं. गौरतलब है कि पूरे सौदे की कीमत करीब 7.9 बिलियन यूरो है यानि करीब 59 हजार करोड़ रुपये. रक्षा मंत्री मनोहर पर्रीकर के मुताबिक, राफेल सौदा आखिरी चरण में है और आखिरी मुहर लगनी बाकी है.

सौदे से जुड़े अधिकारियों के मुताबिक, सौदे का प्रारुप तैयार किया जा रहा है और अगले कुछ दिनों में सौदे की घोषणा कर दी जायेगी. अभी ये सौदा इंटर गर्वमेंटल कमेटी के पास फाइनल होने के लिए भेजा गया है. जानकारी के मुताबिक, वियोंड विज्युल रेंज ‘मेटेओर’ मिसाइल की रेंज करीब 150 किलोमीटर है.

हवा से हवा में मार करने वाली ये मिसाइल दुनिया की सबसे घातक हथियारों में गिनी जाती है. इसके अलावा राफेल फाइटर जेट लंबी दूरी की हवा से सतह में मार करने वाली स्कैल्प (SCALP) क्रूज मिसाइल और हवा से हवा में मार करने वाली माइका (MICA) मिसाइल से भी लैस है. सूत्रों के मुताबिक, राफेल प्लेन में एक और खासयित है.

वो ये कि इसके पायलट के हेलमेट में ही फाइटर प्लेन का पूरा डिस्पले सिस्टम होगा. यानि उसे प्लेन के कॉकपिट में लगे सिस्टम को देखने की जरुरत भी नहीं पड़ेगी. उसका पूरा कॉकपिट का डिस्पले हेलमेट में होगा. माना जा रहा है कि सौदे पर स्टैंप लगने के बाद पहला प्लेन अगले 36 महीने में भारत पहुंच जायेगा.

सभी 36 प्लेन अगले 66 महीने में भारतीय वायुसेना में शामिल होने के लिए तैयार हो जायेंगे. जानकारी के मुताबिक, राफेल बनाने वाली कंपनी से भारत ने ये भी सुनिश्चित कराया है कि एक समय में 75 प्रतिशत प्लेन हमेशा ऑपरेशनली-रेडी रहने चाहिए. इसके अलावा भारतीय जलवायु और लेह-लद्दाख जैसे इलाकों के लिए खास तरह के उपकरण लगाए गए हैं.

राफेल का फुल पैकेज कुछ इस तरह है. 36 विमानों की कीमत 3402 मिलियन यूरो, विमानों के स्पेयर पार्टस 1800 मिलियन यूरो के हैं, जबकि भारत के जलवायु के अनुरुप बनाने में खर्चा हुआ है 1700 मिलियन यूरो का. इसके अलवा पर्फोमेंस बेस्ड लॉजिस्टिक का खर्चा है करीब 353 मिलियन यूरो का.

Google translated


New Delhi: French Rafale fighter planes in a deal with India is going to meet the 36. They are equipped with sophisticated weapons and missiles. Considered the world's deadliest, most notably the Meteor air-to-air missile with Karan (METEOR) missile.The missile then China does not have any Asian country. Rafael ie plane you can be game-changer in South Asia.

According to sources, India had nearly 710 million euros in the deal Rafael (ie Rs 5341 crore) spent on weapons fighters. The whole deal is worth nearly 7.9 billion euros, ie 59 thousand crore. According to Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, Rafael is in the final stage and final sealing the deal is yet to be utilized.

According to officials involved in the transaction, and the transaction is being prepared draft deal in the next few days will be declared. The final deal yet to be sent to the Committee on Inter's Grwmentl. According to information, Beyond Visual range "Meteor" missile has a range of about 150 km.

Air-to-air missile missile is counted in the world's deadliest weapons. Also Rafael fighter jet to shoot long-range air-to-surface Scalp (SCALP) cruise missiles and air-to-air missile Mica (MICA) is also equipped with missiles. According to sources, the Rafale plane Khasyit another.

She only fighter planes in the whole of its pilot's helmet display system. That was in the cockpit of the plane will not even need to look at the system. The display will be in the cockpit of his or her helmet. It is believed that after the first plane hit the stamp on the deal in the next 36 months will reach India.

All 36 planes in the next 66 months will be ready to join the Indian Air Force. According to information, maker Rafale, India has also made sure that 75 percent of the time the plane should always be Operationai-ready. Leh-Ladakh region of the Indian climate and the kind of equipment have been installed.

Rafale is the full package. 3402 Million cost of 36 aircrafts, aircraft spare parts 1800 million euros, while enabling climate in India has cost 1700 million euros. Besides the cost of logistics is based Performance nearly 353 million euros.

http://abpnews.abplive.in/india-news/full-update-of-rafale-fighter-jet-456642/

Kindly excuse the poor translation of google translate

So as per news ABPlive its

• Euro 3.4Bn aircraft
• Spares -Euro 1.8 Bn
• Climatic customizations Euro 1.7 Bn
• Weapons 0.710Bn comprising of Meteor, Scalp, Mica
• Logistics based performance 0.353 Bn

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-327#post-8688450

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[kaykay]

^^ So actual cost of 36 Rafales are 3.42 Billion Euros. Just aircrafts!!!

 

[Aero]

2 Million/missile , Hope it performs as it is priced

Interesting news

• Euro 3.4Bn aircraft
• Spares -Euro 1.8 Bn
• Climatic customizations Euro 1.7 Bn
• Weapons 0.710Bn comprising of Meteor, Scalp, Mica
• Logistics based performance 0.353 Bn

Rafale Deal will Probably be Signed on 23 September

India is close to finalising a long-delayed deal to buy 36 fighter jets from France's Dassault Aviation, a defence ministry official said on Thursday, with the cabinet set to meet next week to agree a price.

According to a media report, India had agreed to pay 7.87 billion euros ($8.84 billion) for the jets and would sign the deal on September 23.

There have been several leaks to the press this year that a deal had been reached that proved to be premature, as the two sides haggled over price and other terms of the deal.

A senior defence ministry official, who asked not to be named because he is not authorised to speak with the media, said cabinet committee on security would meet on Wednesday to discuss the deal.

"We expect to sign the deal once the cabinet approves," the official said.

A defence ministry spokesman said he was not aware of any specific date for signing but admitted that a cabinet meeting was scheduled for next Wednesday. Dassault's spokesman declined to comment.

President Francois Hollande and Prime Minister Narendra Modi intervened in the procurement for the Rafale jets in 2015, ordering government-to-government talks after several years of commercial negotiations with Dassault had collapsed.

The leaders agreed to scale back an original plan to buy 126 Rafale planes to just 36 in flyaway condition to meet the Indian Air Force's urgent needs as it tries to modernise and face an assertive China and long-time foe Pakistan.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...gned-on-september-23/articleshow/54350674.cms

(Yesterday's Article/If i am reposting please tell me)

 

[Agent_47]

The whole ideal of 36 off the shelf purchase was rapid induction. And now they are saying first plane will only arrive in 2019?!

$ 1.7 Billion for integration and customizations ? Why does it cost this much ? Do we have to pay for every modifications like this for further orders ? Do we get the capability to do customizations in house ?

Is the engine upgrade confirmed ?

@PARIKRAMA @Picdelamirand-oil @Taygibay

 

[BON PLAN]

Bro, you keep going to data from 2013. This is no more relevant. I once again urge you to go through Dassault data published from mid of this year.

2015-December

2016-July

The current French backlog is for 34 jets. 2 more units will join the fleet this year and a further 1 unit in 2017. Year 2018, French confirmed backlog will be 31 units. Now when and where these will be delivered, we don't know. But this 31 units for France is confirmed and not cut back.

P.S: The Fanboy in me wants you to be right but the professional in me puts a big question mark on your statements. No offence.



Qatar original requirement was for 72 F-15s which is awaiting Pentagon approval for ages. Very similar to Kuwait awaiting F/A 18 - SH approval from pentagon.

Running out of patience, Qatar ordered 24 Rafales with an option clause for further 12 for a possible future fleet of 36 rafales. The number was limited to 24/36 only because Qatar still prefers the F-15s over rafale. A future fleet of Qatar may comprise, 36 Rafales & 36 F-15s. Unless, Boeing deal goes downhill and the F-15s get denied to Qatar (close to impossible), then Qatar may open a new order for similar number of 24 + 12 units options if not more.

"The Pentagon and the State Department have been considering the sale of 36 Boeing F-15 fighter jets to Qatar valued at around $4 billion. They are also considering the sale of 28 F/A- 18E/F Super Hornets, plus options for 12 more, to Kuwait in a deal valued at around $3 billion."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-qatar-usa-jets-idUSKCN1175GQ

Good Day!

I'm very surprised about the famous 72 fighters for Qatar....
From the 12 fighters today to 72...... It's strange. For me the final number will be 48. And where to find pilots?

 

[cerberus]

2 Million/missile , Hope it performs as it is priced

 

[Aero]

Where to focus my comment , F-35 or Meteor ?
I never said it is bad missile as it is not even properly used/tested but still it is costly.
Hope it perform very well against newer enemy aircraft .

 

[BON PLAN]

What about Brimstone missile? Iaf will get it or not? If not which air to ground missile india will buy? Maverick??

Brimstone is a direct derivativ of Maverick. In better.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

The whole ideal of 36 off the shelf purchase was rapid induction. And now they are saying first plane will only arrive in 2019?!

$ 1.7 Billion for integration and customizations ? Why does it cost this much ? Do we have to pay for every modifications like this for further orders ? Do we get the capability to do customizations in house ?

Is the engine upgrade confirmed ?

@PARIKRAMA @Picdelamirand-oil @Taygibay

The main heading under Customization has details regarding

• Indian Weapons
• Requisite Thrust (an indication to the engine uprating)
• Indian Specific Training and Simulators
• High Altitude Customizations
• Hot Desert weather customizations
• Anti Corrosion /harsh weather customizations
• Others which are not told to me surely

The news report mentioned only one thing and in all probability rest pointers were not leaked.

Its a similar case for Spares for Euro 1.8 Bn which is impractical. rather it was Engg Support package + basic infra for base creation.

 

[BON PLAN]

@randomradio @PARIKRAMA

India would not get SCALP (storm shadow) unless its a signatory for MTCR. this would mean:
1) the negotiations for SCALP were on going while India was working on MTCR (most likely)
or
2) India started negotiation on SCALP after MTCR (high unlikely given the pace of Indian decision making on weapons procurement)
or
3) there is no SCALP involved in the deal

SCALP range > 300 km (limit for MTCR non signatories)

You forget the possible integration of a smaller Brahmos. In this case do India need SCALP? not sure.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

^^ So actual cost of 36 Rafales are 3.42 Billion Euros. Just aircrafts!!!

No not aircraft.
Its aircraft+cost escalation+deferred payment cost+ other financial package costs all clubbed together.
I earlier said its Euro 2.7 Bn + financial package cost Euro 0.5Bn. They must have added some more sub headings to round it upto Euro 3.4 Bn. At this price flyaway is Euro 94 Mn or $103 Mn and i gave this yesterday only

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-335#post-8689700

Now present price is superior to MMRCA price of $85 Mn so its clear other figures are clubbed onto this

 

[cerberus]

Where to focus my comment , F-35 or Meteor ?
I never said it is bad missile as it is not even properly used/tested but still it is costly.
Hope it perform very well against newer enemy aircraft .

Only posted this image that its Next gen missile compatible to 5th gen .

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

 

[Aero]

Only posted this image that its Next gen missile compatible to 5th gen .

We will only be able to use one side datalink with Rafale not as with F-35's Two way.

PS:I am hoping for best, it is indeed good as for Specs go,rest after combat usage, I like the 60 Km+ No escape zone of meteor.