Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Ankit Kumar 002]

SAAB has the experience and the experts currently available ;
of the Single engine Gripen which is very similar to LCA

This is Domain expertise at work

The Dassault experts who worked on Mirage 2000 --A single engine plane
must have retired

Dassault helped us in the early nineties when Mirage 2000 was still in production

The people who have worked on Rafale can only help in AMCA
that too in future

I would like to know 2 areas where we need help from SAAB?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

I would like to know 2 areas where we need help from SAAB?

Undercarriage is heavier than required and the LRU rearrangement for easier maintenance

Also some ballast has to be removed when AESA is added

So the balance will have to be adjusted

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Undercarriage is heavier than required and the LRU rearrangement for easier maintenance

Also some ballast has to be removed when AESA is added

So the balance will have to be adjusted

Aren't they themselves struggling with E/F to reduce its weight and give it the promised performance parameters ?

BAE is a better choice.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

BAE is a better choice

BAE makes Typhoon ( Twin engined ) and Hawks ( Trainer )

Nothing in between ; LCA is another category

LCA has the same engine as Gripen --GE 404

Yet the Gripen is a wonderful aircraft

Otherwise if SAAB does not work out
Let us see whether Lockheed martin helps us on this

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

BAE makes Typhoon ( Twin engined ) and Hawks ( Trainer )

Nothing in between ; LCA is another category

LCA has the same engine as Gripen --GE 404

Yet the Gripen is a wonderful aircraft

Otherwise if SAAB does not work out
Let us see whether Lockheed martin helps us on this

If , something happens to mk1a project, who will benefit the most ?

That's why , we need to keep LCA and SAAB away.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Aren't they themselves struggling with E/F to reduce its weight and give it the promised performance parameters ?

BAE is a better choice.

BAE makes Typhoon ( Twin engined ) and Hawks ( Trainer )

Nothing in between ; LCA is another category

LCA has the same engine as Gripen --GE 404

Yet the Gripen is a wonderful aircraft

Otherwise if SAAB does not work out
Let us see whether Lockheed martin helps us on this

The obvious choice is Dassualt.

1) SAAB have little incentive to develop the LCA as it is a rival to the Gripen
2) BAE have very little industrial ties with India (other than Hawk) and aren't really that invested in aerospace (relatively) these days.
3) Dassualt has extensive expereince in this domain, has a naval variant (SAAB and BAE don't) and, oh look, are coming to the Indian market in a big way.

It would be absolutely criminal to not take advantadge of the Rafale buy for other projects, one of the selling points of the MMRCA was industrial benefits was it not?

 

[knight11]

Undercarriage is heavier than required and the LRU rearrangement for easier maintenance

Undercarriage/landing gear was not designed by SAAB, but by UK.

 

[knight11]

DASSAULT AVIATION CHIEF ERIC TRAPPIER HOPES TO SEAL ONE OR TWO RAFALE DEALS IN 2016: REPORT
MONDAY, APRIL 25, 2016 BY INDIANDEFENSE NEWS

PARIS: Dassault Aviation hopes to seal "one or two" contracts to sell its Rafale planes this year and this would include a much-heralded deal to sell 36 Rafale fighter jets to India, its chief executive said an interview.
"One can hope for on one or two contracts this year, including India," Eric Trappier was reported as saying by magazine Challenges on its Challenges.fr web site.
Negotiations for India to buy 36 French Rafale fighter jets are nearing the finish line, the Indian defence ministry said last week, with sources saying the price will be set at around $9 billion.
"Significantly progress has been made and I sense a true will to reach an agreement, possibly in the coming weeks," Trappier said of the India talks.
Both sides had hoped to wrap up the strategic order during President Francois Hollande's visit for Republic Day celebration in January, but hard bargaining on price stalled a final result.
Dassault Aviation said in March it was working on deals to also sell Rafale jets to Malaysia and the United Arab Emirates.
Source>>

 

[PARIKRAMA]

[QUOTE"]Rafale update :
Rafale deal finally coming to a close and its much bigger than what is revealed !
.
Dassault CEO Eric Trappier in an interview recently revealed many points.
- Most of the differences have been resolved and they look forward to sign the deal for initial 36 in coming weeks.
-The initial deal will be about 36+18= 54 Rafales
-Further Rafales will be built in India under Make in India.
- First tranche of Rafales to be built in India will compose of 90 aircrafts.
- Further Indian Navy is very serious about getting Naval Rafale
- India will get substantial TOT.
- French companies will collaborate with Indian Companies on a number of defence projects.
.
He further stated that Americans and Swedes are also lobbying hard but they (referring to Rafale ) have proved themselves to IAF and so are confident.[/QUOTE]

Thats the source

https://www.facebook.com/IADnews/posts/1090064614404926:0

The 54 figure includes the follow on added part

and about IN part

All in facebook page ,,,


++
Seems they follow Rafale thread a lot in different forums!!!

 

[WhyCry]

The MKI is still (by some margin) the most capable fighter in that part of the world but the Rafale will displace it from that spot when it enters service.

I do not agree with this statement as this is the dilemma to US and other top 10 defense budget countries. Its not that who is better than the other than which roles are performed by which.

Su-30 MKI are agile and proficient in air superiority. This is their main role.

Dassualt Rafale is basically a multi-role fighter (jack of traits and master of none). Its mainly known for its air to ground role.

So even in war or any skirmish, the first step is denial of air space which will be handled by Su 30's and then followed by targeted ground attacks including destroying airstrip and arms cash followed by next objectives. They complement each other and are not meant to replace each other.

Currently for the air superiority role (commonly refereed to as dog-fighters), there are only F-14(retired), F-15, F-22, Su-27, Su-30, Su 35 are the most famous platforms.

France had never had a air superiority fighter and have always relied on other sources to projects its power including submersible, floating, UK, EU and NATO (last 3 are political).

Now lets jump to the first line of my conversation about dilemma. The issue is that US had exported F15's (ASR) and F16(MR)'s to its allies previously. Now with F22 (ASR) they has put a ban on the export of arms and technology and are only offering F35's which are for air to ground, interceptor and bombing support missions.

Just to troll a little, while french compare Rafale to Eurofighter and show their admiration. I usually think of WWII when french were holding the trenches and asking British(at that time) to save them.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

In line with what i have posted before

Thats 24th April 2016
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-227#post-8261847


thanks to @dadeechi for this news

https://defence.pk/threads/exclusiv...r-soon-for-any-private-strategic-deal.428459/
The article says

• The Cabinet Committee on Securities (CCS) will grant its final approval on the inclusion of Strategic Partners (SPs), a model that the government plans to enter into with private firms in critical and high-end defence projects like building submarines, helicopters and fighter planes requiring long term commitments, both ways.
• "We are expecting to finalise the model by May end and there could be few more meetings, as needed," a senior defence ministry official said. "The final paper --- after making constructive improvements --- will be taken up for finance approval and then put up to the CCS," he added. (DM MP said)
• "A regulator will be put in place as existing policies procedures and mind sets are rigid and do not allow flexibility needed for technology intensive programs needing pragmatic view in contracting and monitoring,"
• On queries by the industry, Parrikar said P75(I) submarines, helicopters and fighter aircrafts could be the segments that will be looked into for selection of SPs.
• Light Combat Aircraft MK2 itself could be pursued under the SP route. "With multiple helicopter and fighter programs there could be one or two strategic partners in either,"
  
  

As you can see one by one each of the stumbling blocks for MII is getting cleared..

Once strategic partnership model is out, within 3 months time, you will first hear

1. Selection of Indian Partner for Dassault (its a bit of a surprise!!!)
2. Coming down for MII part formal offer which is actually an extension as certain important points are already in IGA
3. and formal declaration by GOI after CCS approval for Rafale MII by max Dec 2016/ March 2017

Expect a flurry of reports, analysis and media campaign .. all in vain.. bcz GOI is cutting a solid deal as i said earlier..

PS: A smart one will spot a very important month 'MAY' .. Join the dots a bit.. You will see whats cooking and how government is making sure, India get a solid deal

@Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @MilSpec @Taygibay @Vauban

 

[Stephen Cohen]

In line with what i have posted before
View attachment 302659
Thats 24th April 2016
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-227#post-8261847


thanks to @dadeechi for this news

https://defence.pk/threads/exclusiv...r-soon-for-any-private-strategic-deal.428459/
The article says

• The Cabinet Committee on Securities (CCS) will grant its final approval on the inclusion of Strategic Partners (SPs), a model that the government plans to enter into with private firms in critical and high-end defence projects like building submarines, helicopters and fighter planes requiring long term commitments, both ways.
• "We are expecting to finalise the model by May end and there could be few more meetings, as needed," a senior defence ministry official said. "The final paper --- after making constructive improvements --- will be taken up for finance approval and then put up to the CCS," he added. (DM MP said)
• "A regulator will be put in place as existing policies procedures and mind sets are rigid and do not allow flexibility needed for technology intensive programs needing pragmatic view in contracting and monitoring,"
• On queries by the industry, Parrikar said P75(I) submarines, helicopters and fighter aircrafts could be the segments that will be looked into for selection of SPs.
• Light Combat Aircraft MK2 itself could be pursued under the SP route. "With multiple helicopter and fighter programs there could be one or two strategic partners in either,"

As you can see one by one each of the stumbling blocks for MII is getting cleared..

Once strategic partnership model is out, within 3 months time, you will first hear

1. Selection of Indian Partner for Dassault (its a bit of a surprise!!!)
2. Coming down for MII part formal offer which is actually an extension as certain important points are already in IGA
3. and formal declaration by GOI after CCS approval for Rafale MII by max Dec 2016/ March 2017

Expect a flurry of reports, analysis and media campaign .. all in vain.. bcz GOI is cutting a solid deal as i said earlier..

PS: A smart one will spot a very important month 'MAY' .. Join the dots a bit.. You will see whats cooking and how government is making sure, India get a solid deal

@Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @MilSpec @Taygibay @Vauban

Hello Sir

I was thinking ; Modi is going to US in June
Why not drop in Paris for signing the Rafale deal ie the First Part of 36 + 18

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Hello Sir

I was thinking ; Modi is going to US in June
Why not drop in Paris for signing the Rafale deal ie the First Part of 36 + 18

The signing generally is in the buying country.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The signing generally is in the buying country.

I did nt know that ; Anyway exceptions can always be made

 

[kaykay]

BC ye Rafale deal na hua birbal ki khichhdi ho gayi.....aab to sign kar do..