Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Picdelamirand-oil]

it's got legs not Rafale legs but not too bad.

in this config two WVR missile, two BVR missiles, four anti ship missiles, and two giant drop tanks1700 liters

How he released his landing gear?

 

[C130]

How he released his landing gear?

they are drop tanks he'll just drop them

 

[Yaralava]

How he released his landing gear?

Good point ............. guess CGI creativity does tend to overlook more practical considerations

they are drop tanks he'll just drop them

how about Take off ?

 

[#hydra#]

Are Bhai I was just KIDDING, DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.

But i am not,china did this to us throug pakistan.

 

[Abingdonboy]

it's got legs not Rafale legs but not too bad.

in this config two WVR missile, two BVR missiles, four anti ship missiles, and two giant drop tanks1700 liters

Adding to @Picdelamirand-oil 's most fundamental question about the inability to deploy landing gear (and thus not being able to take off), does the Gripen have 2 wet stations along the centreline? Nothing I have seen indicates this. This is fanboy art.

 

[BON PLAN]

How he released his landing gear?

It take off on a ski.... as a V1 nazi rocket, with landing gear up.

Adding to @Picdelamirand-oil 's most fundamental question about the inability to deploy landing gear (and thus not being able to take off), does the Gripen have 2 wet stations along the centreline? Nothing I have seen indicates this. This is fanboy art.

But what a nice picture !!!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

It take off on a ski.... as a V1 nazi rocket, with landing gear up.


But what a nice picture !!!!

Very much so, it reminds me of this:

To date the best CGI I have seen for a plane in IAF colours (even though that never came to fruition )

There's something about the fact that the Gripen being so small requring such tight packing of stores that just looks so "right".

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Just a side chit chat..

Gripen chances in India is not zero but "negative"

NDA government can never say yes to Gripen bcz of a small but significant fact that a wiki leaks cable had allegation that Former PM Rajiv Gandhi was a key middle man in Saab Viggen deal. Of course its not proven, but owing to this fact, the Gripen chances or rather any product of Saab is difficult to come in unless and untill BJP renounces and states that this wiki leak cable pasted below is a false accusation of a former PM from Congress Party.

Here is the cable.

CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 01 NEW DE 01909 061554Z 14 ACTION NEA-10 INFO OCT-01 EUR-12 ISO-00 CIAE-00 PM-04 H-02 INR-07 L-03 NSAE-00 NSC-05 PA-01 PRS-01 SP-02 SS-15 USIA-06 MC-02 ACDA-05 EB-07 SAM-01 TRSE-00 OMB-01 /085 W --------------------- 087881 R 061237Z FEB 76 FM AMEMBASSY NEW DELHI TO SECSTATE WASHDC 3883 INFO AMEMBASSY ISLAMABAD AMEMBASSY LONDON AMEMBASSY MOSCOW AMEMBASSY PARIS AMEMBASSY STOCKHOLM CINCPAC DIA WASHDC C O N F I D E N T I A L NEW DELHI 1909 CINCPAC FOR POLAD E.O. 11652: XGDS-1 TAGS: MASS, PFOR, IN, US SUBJECT: SWEDES SEE VIGGEN AGAIN ACTIVE COMPETITOR REF: NEW DELHI 0845

1. THE SWEDES HERE ARE ONCE AGAIN OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THEIR CHANCES OF SELLING THE VIGGEN TO THE INDIAN AIR FORCE. THE SAAB SCANIA SALES MANAGER AND THE CHIEF TECHNICAL ADVISOR, THE FORMER ACTING COMMANDER OF THE SWEDISH AIR FORCE, RETURNED TO NEW DELHI TEN DAYS AGO FOR CONFERENCES WITH THE INDIANS. THE TECHNICAL ADVISOR IS STILL HERE AND WILL REMAIN AS LONG AS NECESSARY TO HANDLE QUESTIONS FROM THE NEW INDIAN DEFENSE MINISTER AND NEW IAF CHIEF OF THE STAFF, BOTH OF WHOM ACCORDING TO OUR SWEDISH COLLEAGUE, REQUIRE TIME TO BRIEF THEMSELVES ON THE COMPETING FIGHTERS. CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 02 NEW DE 01909 061554Z

2. THE SWEDES HERE EXPECT THAT THE IAF WILL SEND A TEST PILOT TO SWEDEN TO FLY THE VIGGEN SINCE THE CURRENT MODELS COMING OFF THE LINE ARE AIRWORTHY. HE TELLS US THE INDIANS HAVE ACCEPTED THE EXPLANATION FOR THE WING STRUCTURAL DEFECT WHICH TEMPORARILY GROUNDED THE EARLY MODELS.

3. THE SWEDES BELIEVE THEIR MOST TELLING POINT, HOWEVER, IS THE LONGEVITY OF THE AIRCRAFT. THEY SAY THEY HAVE CON- VINCED THE IAF THAT THE REPLACEABLE AVIONICS PACKAGES IN THE VIGGEN RENDER IT CAPABLE OF PERIODIC MODERNIZATION WITH THE RESULT THAT IT WILL BE VIABLE UNTIL 2000 (WHICH SOUNDS A BIT FAR FETCHED TO US). OUR SWEDISH COLLEAGUE SAID THE PROPOSAL CONTINUES TO BE THAT THE INDIANS BUILD THE AIRFRAMES AND POSSIBLY SOME ENGINES OR ENGINE COMPONENTS, BUT THE SWEDES PROVIDE THE AVIONICS. SINCE THE INDIANS WANT "THE BEST", ACCORDING TO OUR SWEDISH CONTACT, THE IAF REGARDS THE AVIONICS AS VITAL. MOREOVER, THE SWEDES WOULD NOT CONSIDER SELLING THE VIGGEN WITHOUT THE "BLACK BOXES." THESE FACTORS, THE SWEDES ASSERT, GO A LONG WAY TO OFFSET THE DISADVANTAGE OF RELATIVELY HIGH INITIAL UNIT COST. ANOTHER INDUCEMENT, AS SEEN BY THE SWEDES HERE, IS THAT SAAB SCANIA HAS COMPLETED ITS SURVEY OF INDIAN EXPORTS AND CONCLUDED IT COULD MARKET SEVERAL ITEMS IN SWEDEN OR THE WEST MAKING A BARTER TYPE ARRANGEMENT AT LEAST FEASIBLE FROM THE SWEDISH POINT OF VIEW.

4. THE SWEDISH FOREIGN MINISTER IS DUE ON A VISIT TO NEW DELHI CIRCA MARCH 1. THE SWEDES ARE BRACED FOR ANOTHER INDIAN APPEAL FOR CREDIT WHICH OUR COLLEAGUE SAYS SWEDEN WILL NOT GRANT, BUT HE DID SAY THE MINISTER WOULD STRONGLY SUPPORT THE VIGGEN SALE. OUR COLLEAGUE WOULD NOT SAY WHAT OTHER CONCESSIONS THE SWEDES MAY BE CONSIDERING.

5. THE SWEDES HERE HAVE ALSO MADE IT QUITE CLEAR THEY UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF FAMILY INFLUENCES IN THE FINAL DECISION IN THE FIGHTER SWEEPSTAKES. OUR COLLEAGUE DESCRIBES RAJIV GANDHI IN FLATTERING TERMS, AND CONTENDS HIS TECHNICAL EXPERTISE IS OF A HIGH LEVEL. THIS MAY OR MAY NOT BE. OFFHAND WE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT A TRANSPORT PILOT NOT THE BEST EXPERT TO RELY UPON IN EVALUATING A FIGHTER PLANE, BUT THEN WE ARE SPEAKING OF A TRANSPORT PILOT WHO HAS ANOTHER AND PERHAPS MORE RELEVANT QUALIFICATION.

CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL
PAGE 03 NEW DE 01909 061554Z SAXBE CONFIDENTIAL

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1976NEWDE01909_b.html
+++

 

[C130]

Adding to @Picdelamirand-oil 's most fundamental question about the inability to deploy landing gear (and thus not being able to take off), does the Gripen have 2 wet stations along the centreline? Nothing I have seen indicates this. This is fanboy art.

derp I see now. this is probably just fan fiction then.

you can see in fuel tanks the double asterisk** that says any of the center stations can hold a fuel tank, but not all simultaneously


interesting though if I am interrupting this right Gripen NG can carry 8 NSM, but it wouldn't be able to carry any extra fuel tanks.

 

[WhyCry]

@Water Car Engineer @MilSpec @knight11 @ni8mare @PARIKRAMA surely this is the optimal approach and then ork with SNEMCA to develop an M88 derivative for the AMCA?

Well the DRDO-Snema partnership had failed with Kaveri development so its highly unlikely that this will happen. Also the design for AMCA is finalized so its definitely not happening.

Few nukes can do the jobs

1. Vietnam had very good relationship with India.
2. India and Vietnam have SU-30
3. India and Vietnam have Mig 21 and looking for Replacement.
4. India and Vietnam have a Big neigbour People Republic of China.
5. India have already selected Rafale. Vietnam yet too.

However it will depend on how Vietnami thinks, and what is their doctrine. .

All things that you point are true but that doesn't set the direction or actual facts. Tejas is the replacement for Mig-21 and not Rafael so how is your conclusion. Also Vietnam has a total budget of $3.3 billion then how on earth can they pay almost the same amount for just 12 combat planes.

Hold your horse buddy. Gripen, F16 or even Tejas MK2 (production will start 2022) will be their choice.

Also lets not forget Rs has depreciated substantially since the onset of this deal.

I do agree with that in perception to the 2007-08 to today. Yes that has happened (dramatically) but when the deal presented in 2012 with Rafael (refreshing its price) declared as L1 bidder then a Big NO. The Euro has its heavy downfall and has dropped from USD:Euro at 1:1.6 to 1:1.1.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=USD&view=10Y

Also INR is almost at the same level as that of 2012-13 rates. (Inflation is not included as it will result in appreciation)

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=INR&view=10Y

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Just a side chit chat..

Gripen chances in India is not zero but "negative"

NDA government can never say yes to Gripen bcz of a small but significant fact that a wiki leaks cable had allegation that Former PM Rajiv Gandhi was a key middle man in Saab Viggen deal. Of course its not proven, but owing to this fact, the Gripen chances or rather any product of Saab is difficult to come in unless and untill BJP renounces and states that this wiki leak cable pasted below is a false accusation of a former PM from Congress Party.

Here is the cable.

CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 01 NEW DE 01909 061554Z 14 ACTION NEA-10 INFO OCT-01 EUR-12 ISO-00 CIAE-00 PM-04 H-02 INR-07 L-03 NSAE-00 NSC-05 PA-01 PRS-01 SP-02 SS-15 USIA-06 MC-02 ACDA-05 EB-07 SAM-01 TRSE-00 OMB-01 /085 W --------------------- 087881 R 061237Z FEB 76 FM AMEMBASSY NEW DELHI TO SECSTATE WASHDC 3883 INFO AMEMBASSY ISLAMABAD AMEMBASSY LONDON AMEMBASSY MOSCOW AMEMBASSY PARIS AMEMBASSY STOCKHOLM CINCPAC DIA WASHDC C O N F I D E N T I A L NEW DELHI 1909 CINCPAC FOR POLAD E.O. 11652: XGDS-1 TAGS: MASS, PFOR, IN, US SUBJECT: SWEDES SEE VIGGEN AGAIN ACTIVE COMPETITOR REF: NEW DELHI 0845

1. THE SWEDES HERE ARE ONCE AGAIN OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THEIR CHANCES OF SELLING THE VIGGEN TO THE INDIAN AIR FORCE. THE SAAB SCANIA SALES MANAGER AND THE CHIEF TECHNICAL ADVISOR, THE FORMER ACTING COMMANDER OF THE SWEDISH AIR FORCE, RETURNED TO NEW DELHI TEN DAYS AGO FOR CONFERENCES WITH THE INDIANS. THE TECHNICAL ADVISOR IS STILL HERE AND WILL REMAIN AS LONG AS NECESSARY TO HANDLE QUESTIONS FROM THE NEW INDIAN DEFENSE MINISTER AND NEW IAF CHIEF OF THE STAFF, BOTH OF WHOM ACCORDING TO OUR SWEDISH COLLEAGUE, REQUIRE TIME TO BRIEF THEMSELVES ON THE COMPETING FIGHTERS. CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 02 NEW DE 01909 061554Z

2. THE SWEDES HERE EXPECT THAT THE IAF WILL SEND A TEST PILOT TO SWEDEN TO FLY THE VIGGEN SINCE THE CURRENT MODELS COMING OFF THE LINE ARE AIRWORTHY. HE TELLS US THE INDIANS HAVE ACCEPTED THE EXPLANATION FOR THE WING STRUCTURAL DEFECT WHICH TEMPORARILY GROUNDED THE EARLY MODELS.

3. THE SWEDES BELIEVE THEIR MOST TELLING POINT, HOWEVER, IS THE LONGEVITY OF THE AIRCRAFT. THEY SAY THEY HAVE CON- VINCED THE IAF THAT THE REPLACEABLE AVIONICS PACKAGES IN THE VIGGEN RENDER IT CAPABLE OF PERIODIC MODERNIZATION WITH THE RESULT THAT IT WILL BE VIABLE UNTIL 2000 (WHICH SOUNDS A BIT FAR FETCHED TO US). OUR SWEDISH COLLEAGUE SAID THE PROPOSAL CONTINUES TO BE THAT THE INDIANS BUILD THE AIRFRAMES AND POSSIBLY SOME ENGINES OR ENGINE COMPONENTS, BUT THE SWEDES PROVIDE THE AVIONICS. SINCE THE INDIANS WANT "THE BEST", ACCORDING TO OUR SWEDISH CONTACT, THE IAF REGARDS THE AVIONICS AS VITAL. MOREOVER, THE SWEDES WOULD NOT CONSIDER SELLING THE VIGGEN WITHOUT THE "BLACK BOXES." THESE FACTORS, THE SWEDES ASSERT, GO A LONG WAY TO OFFSET THE DISADVANTAGE OF RELATIVELY HIGH INITIAL UNIT COST. ANOTHER INDUCEMENT, AS SEEN BY THE SWEDES HERE, IS THAT SAAB SCANIA HAS COMPLETED ITS SURVEY OF INDIAN EXPORTS AND CONCLUDED IT COULD MARKET SEVERAL ITEMS IN SWEDEN OR THE WEST MAKING A BARTER TYPE ARRANGEMENT AT LEAST FEASIBLE FROM THE SWEDISH POINT OF VIEW.

4. THE SWEDISH FOREIGN MINISTER IS DUE ON A VISIT TO NEW DELHI CIRCA MARCH 1. THE SWEDES ARE BRACED FOR ANOTHER INDIAN APPEAL FOR CREDIT WHICH OUR COLLEAGUE SAYS SWEDEN WILL NOT GRANT, BUT HE DID SAY THE MINISTER WOULD STRONGLY SUPPORT THE VIGGEN SALE. OUR COLLEAGUE WOULD NOT SAY WHAT OTHER CONCESSIONS THE SWEDES MAY BE CONSIDERING.

5. THE SWEDES HERE HAVE ALSO MADE IT QUITE CLEAR THEY UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF FAMILY INFLUENCES IN THE FINAL DECISION IN THE FIGHTER SWEEPSTAKES. OUR COLLEAGUE DESCRIBES RAJIV GANDHI IN FLATTERING TERMS, AND CONTENDS HIS TECHNICAL EXPERTISE IS OF A HIGH LEVEL. THIS MAY OR MAY NOT BE. OFFHAND WE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT A TRANSPORT PILOT NOT THE BEST EXPERT TO RELY UPON IN EVALUATING A FIGHTER PLANE, BUT THEN WE ARE SPEAKING OF A TRANSPORT PILOT WHO HAS ANOTHER AND PERHAPS MORE RELEVANT QUALIFICATION.

CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL
PAGE 03 NEW DE 01909 061554Z SAXBE CONFIDENTIAL

https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1976NEWDE01909_b.html
+++

Means , no A26 in P75I?

But there have been some deals with SAAB. One was about the self protection kit for tanks if I am not wrong.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Means , no A26 in P75I?

But there have been some deals with SAAB. One was about the self protection kit for tanks if I am not wrong.

we cant rule out every deal.. same like Italy where we are trying to find a solution with Marines bcz we need Naval guns and black shark Heavy water torpedoes..

Saab Frontline fighter jets is more like a taboo topic.. anything else is still being looked at.. the best Saab will get is more like a consulting role for HAL in LCA project.. Actual order of Gripen or Gripen NG is a distant dream owing to such issues which will turn political as and when such a deal being made is out in public

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

the best Saab will get is more like a consulting role for HAL in LCA project..

I am not quite satisfied that we should work with SAAB on this. BAE or Dassault should be the choice. While we are at present collaborating on Hawks and getting help on IJT from BAE, it was Dssault which gave the initial momentum to our LCA. Both would be fine, but not SAAB.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

I am not quite satisfied that we should work with SAAB on this. BAE or Dassault should be the choice. While we are at present collaborating on Hawks and getting help on IJT from BAE, it was Dssault which gave the initial momentum to our LCA. Both would be fine, but not SAAB.

SAAB has the experience and the experts currently available ;
of the Single engine Gripen which is very similar to LCA

This is Domain expertise at work

The Dassault experts who worked on Mirage 2000 --A single engine plane
must have retired

Dassault helped us in the early nineties when Mirage 2000 was still in production

The people who have worked on Rafale can only help in AMCA
that too in future

 

[Ind4Ever]

Rafale update :
Rafale deal finally coming to a close and its much bigger than what is revealed !
.
Dassault CEO Eric Trappier in an interview recently revealed many points.
- Most of the differences have been resolved and they look forward to sign the deal for initial 36 in coming weeks.
-The initial deal will be about 36+18= 54 Rafales
-Further Rafales will be built in India under Make in India.
- First tranche of Rafales to be built in India will compose of 90 aircrafts.
- Further Indian Navy is very serious about getting Naval Rafale
- India will get substantial TOT.
- French companies will collaborate with Indian Companies on a number of defence projects.
.
He further stated that Americans and Swedes are also lobbying hard but they (referring to Rafale ) have proved themselves to IAF and so are confident.