Creation of Bangladesh

[haviZsultan]

dimension117 let me know where your family in India lives, I'd like to contact them personally and ask them against the allegations you have raised and thereby ask themselves of the solution.



This comment is independent comment and is not directed at anyone.

when did any magazine or any government for that matter started counting the whole macro-econmy of India? 26% and 23% , I dont think its a big deal. The NSSO survey spanned a few thousand villages I think have to check on rural income level.

Regarding illiteracy = less jobs = poor, I'm sorry to say I have seen hundreds of cases where rural or even local community Muslims instead of sending them to schools sends them to madrasas you just have to come and see such thing, even madrasa board is recognised but problem is often other than a few dont come with flying colors from madrasas in representing the future economy its reality. If such issue is true for Pakistan how it can not be true for India? You just cannot go and ask villagers okay stop sending them to madrasas, you'll then loose election and will brand you as anti-Islamic. They themselve are at fault here and their leadership whom they support blindly.

I have commented once regarding Muslims in West Bengal which is a communist state yet the Muslim group is quite poor compared to other states, its a good food for thought why if thought properly ofcourse.

Sir, my family in india lives in Lucknow, Chowk area behind where that run-down police station is and i hav family in delhi and bombay as well. (dunno the proper locations though!) I mean they told me all this themselves, if u wanna ask them u are more than welcome... even i've been there 5 times and i've felt the majorities bias all the time! Each time i mentioned i am a Pakistani i recieved a tirade of anti-pakistani talk, the dislike shows clearly on the faces!

Man it is the truth, that is the way minorities in your country feel! Ignored and unaccepted! They don't go around saying it all the time cauz they are afraid but inside thats how many of them feel. I have heard of no one in my Indian family sending kids to madrassas and they barely seem to know if they exist! Lose election? Indias Population is:

Hindu 80.5%, Muslim 13.4%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.1%
<https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/in.html>

If hindus represent 80% of the population and muslim 13% that definately means that politicians do not even have to care about the muslim population as they can win the election anyway! There is a hindu majority everywhere exept in Kashmir where the muslims are oppressed! tchhhh... is'nt the government at fault for ignoring them and favouring hindus all this time! You can even take me as an example, i am supposed to be half indian but I've loved only Pakistan! Why? So i say about so many muslims... why do they not feel as loyal to india as hindus, the answer is simply because you never accepted them!

(Genmirajborgza i await ur reply to that huge post back there!)

 

[haviZsultan]

Why don't you answer the reply instead of throwing emotional tantrums at the messenger? It was you who quoted a piece from virtualBangladesh claiming pompuosly the article was written by the Sunday Times, only to be proven it was not, correct? Are my facts right or wrong regarding discrimination of Bharati Muslims in Bharat?

PS Point out where I've contradicted myself in this thread. I'm pretty fluent on the war of Independence, so instead of swearing needlessly, point out where the contradiction lies in this thread.

Its the same thing with this dude and Salim. just don't want to answer the posts when they can't deny the truth. They are just ignoring the post and denying it as irrelevent because they can't answer!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

YouTube - Liberation war Bangladesh, 1971

YouTube - 25th March 1971 [The Liberation war Bangladesh]

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sir, my family in india lives in Lucknow, Chowk area behind where that run-down police station is and i hav family in delhi and bombay as well. (dunno the proper locations though!) I mean they told me all this themselves, if u wanna ask them u are more than welcome... even i've been there 5 times and i've felt the majorities bias all the time! Each time i mentioned i am a Pakistani i recieved a tirade of anti-pakistani talk, the dislike shows clearly on the faces!

Man it is the truth, that is the way minorities in your country feel! Ignored and unaccepted! They don't go around saying it all the time cauz they are afraid but inside thats how many of them feel. I have heard of no one in my Indian family sending kids to madrassas and they barely seem to know if they exist! Lose election? Indias Population is:

Hindu 80.5&#37;, Muslim 13.4%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.1%
<https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/in.html>

If hindus represent 80% of the population and muslim 13% that definately means that politicians do not even have to care about the muslim population as they can win the election anyway! There is a hindu majority everywhere exept in Kashmir where the muslims are oppressed! tchhhh... is'nt the government at fault for ignoring them and favouring hindus all this time! You can even take me as an example, i am supposed to be half indian but I've loved only Pakistan! Why? So i say about so many muslims... why do they not feel as loyal to india as hindus, the answer is simply because you never accepted them!

(Genmirajborgza i await ur reply to that huge post back there!)

It is not that I don't want to answer.

It is just that the same issue gets repeated in a new skin.

I am not in the game of brownie points.

Right now, you have a new issue and so I will answer.

First of all, it is regrettable that your family in India, being Moslems, should feel that they are alienated.

I would not blame the population of India for the same. I blame the politicians for keeping alive the differences (not only on the religious grounds) because it suits the political agenda and ensures their votes by either appeasing or by raising the bogey!

On the election issue, inspite of Hindus being the majority, there is the caste divide that is played up. Therefore, it is not Hindus en bloc.In Bihar and UP, the Moslem votes and the Yadav votes and the Valmiki votes can make or break a govt!

If you notice, the India US nuke deal has gone into a spin. Not because it is in the interest or damage to the country, India, as such. It has gone into a spin because the Communists are against anything that would draw India towards the US (since it would be detrimental to their mentor, China). The Communists waited all along till the 123 Agreement was to be signed so that a big hue and cry could be created and they could portray themselves as the sole defendant of India's sovereignty. Human memory runs short and they are exploiting that. To imagine that the Communists are the champion of India's sovereignty when they had opposed the Quit India Movement (because Stalin had become the chum of UK), called the Indian Independence as False (BT Ranadive), supported the Chinese in 1962 and now they want to sabotage the Nuke deal!

That apart, the interesting fallout is not the Communists, but the other political parties who are in the Coalition that form the UPA which runs the govt headed by the Congress. Unlike the Pakistani Moslems who support Bush's War on Terror, the Indian Moslems are dead against the US and anything US.

Manmohan Singh is dead keen to get the 123 through, but now that the Communists may take back their support and the govt may fall leading to election, Laloo Pershad Yadav and Mulayam Singh Yadav et al have got cold feet! Suddenly, they (who are a part of the UPA or supporting the UPA) find it difficult to support the Congress on the deal, which they have been doing so far and without any protest!

Why?

Because the Moslems may vote against them in the election for supporting the 123 which is making India pro US.

It is these politicians, who have no national interest in their heart and only self interest for the gaddi (seat) who are the cause of all the divides that you observe in this country,.

Next time you come to India, visit me and let us see which character heckles you for being a Pakistani. He will have to face me first and then you, that is if he can get past me!

It is regrettable that you say that Indian Moslems do not feel loyal to India. If my friends heard you, then these are the chaps who would really pounce on you.

 

[roadrunner]

when did any magazine or any government for that matter started counting the whole macro-econmy of India? 26&#37; and 23% , I dont think its a big deal.

Is 40% v 22% on under $6 a day not a big deal in the cities?

Regarding illiteracy = less jobs = poor, I'm sorry to say I have seen hundreds of cases where rural or even local community Muslims instead of sending them to schools sends them to madrasas you just have to come and see such thing, even madrasa board is recognised but problem is often other than a few dont come with flying colors from madrasas in representing the future economy its reality. If such issue is true for Pakistan how it can not be true for India? You just cannot go and ask villagers okay stop sending them to madrasas, you'll then loose election and will brand you as anti-Islamic. They themselve are at fault here and their leadership whom they support blindly.

With this attitude, you can see why minorities are discriminated against in Bharat. Saying that the poor figures for Muslims compared to Hindus is due to the Muslims own fault is exactly the sort of problem that will ensure this sort of discrimination is never sorted out in Bharat, as the article from TIME suggests. There is a reason why people send kids to madrassahs. The reason in Pakistan is that people who cannot afford educaion can get free education in madrassahs, the same is probably true of Bharat. The whole system in Bharat is against the Muslims. They are poorer than the Hindus, and less of them can afford schools, so they send them to madrassahs and get a poor education which is at least an education. The solution to this even I know, yet the Bharat government hasnt implemented any solution. They like you, also blame it on the Muslims themselves who are too poor to afford Bharati schools. As soon as the proper quotas are given to Muslims in jobs within public and later private sector, the Muslims of Bharat will continue to send their children to madrassahs for an education and you will still continue your baseless denial that it is their own faults for sending them to such centres even though you disregard the reasons why the system is so against them that they have to resort to doing this. This is true discrimination, not what Pakistan was doing pre-1971 in both parts of the country.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

With this attitude, you can see why minorities are discriminated against in Bharat. will still continue your baseless denial that it is their own faults for sending them to such centres even though you disregard the reasons why the system is so against them that they have to resort to doing this. This is true discrimination, not what Pakistan was doing pre-1971 in both parts of the country.

Now to prove your point wrong i have only one question then why did Pakistan break up in just 23 years since its establishment ? would you please care to explain sir'? while India has just celebrated 60 years of it's independence including the Indo-Canadian community here in Canada with India still being intact in one piece.

 

[roadrunner]

Now to prove your point wrong i have only one question then why did Pakistan break up in just 23 years since its establishment ? would you please care to explain sir'? while India has just celebrated 60 years of it independence including the Indo-Canadian community here in Canada with India still being intact in one piece.

Answered before. Perceived discrimination caused by Mujib's propaganda to achieve his aim of an independent country, backed by the Bharatis. How does East and West Pakistan splitting up prove that discrimination took place in pre-1971 Pakistan by the way?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Holism is the denominator for any analysis.

 

[haviZsultan]

It is not that I don't want to answer.

It is just that the same issue gets repeated in a new skin.

I am not in the game of brownie points.

Right now, you have a new issue and so I will answer.

We celebrate the return of Salim and congratulate him as he has managed to answer atleast one question. The involvement of India in the Bangladesh War he has ignored as "irrelevent" and as "the same issue repeated in a new skin" although scrolling back down the pages will reveal that Indias involvement and purposes have not been discussed till now!

You aren't in the game of brownie points... oh now i know, i am so sorry that i did not realize it before! Anyway, what about the game of scoring pinkie points?

Oh, its a new issue as if i did not mention the issue in that huge post back there... okay fine, the tiger is always right!

First of all, it is regrettable that your family in India, being Moslems, should feel that they are alienated.

I would not blame the population of India for the same. I blame the politicians for keeping alive the differences (not only on the religious grounds) because it suits the political agenda and ensures their votes by either appeasing or by raising the bogey!

On the election issue, inspite of Hindus being the majority, there is the caste divide that is played up. Therefore, it is not Hindus en bloc.In Bihar and UP, the Moslem votes and the Yadav votes and the Valmiki votes can make or break a govt!

I know its regrettable that is why i am on the brink of collapse right now.

Well atleast you aren't blaming Pakistan for your problems! Yup me too I blame the politicians too for keeping the old hatred alive but aren't many indian people like that too? I don't think some hindus need the governments help to hate muslims.

But the muslim population is too small in proportion to the hindu population so i don't really think your votes count that much! Thats what my uncle told me... he said muslims in india were like cattle led to wherever the qovernment led them or wanted them to go! Caste divide? The muslim caste in India suffer much more proverty than other castes... muslims as a caste in india are weak and ignored as well! I dunno why you don't see it. Well i haven't ever heard of "muslim votes making or breaking the government" Has any government in India ever been formed because of the widespread acceptance of muslims?

Salim are you going to some madrassa in india? Joey said many muslims go to madrassahs in india but i haven't seen or heard about a single one going to madrassahs... Well you did tell me that you were uneducated and unskilled so you stayed in India, remember... so I thought about asking you! Well anyway he said it was u indian muslims fault that u went to madrassas which made u illiterate!

If you notice, the India US nuke deal has gone into a spin. Not because it is in the interest or damage to the country, India, as such. It has gone into a spin because the Communists are against anything that would draw India towards the US (since it would be detrimental to their mentor, China). The Communists waited all along till the 123 Agreement was to be signed so that a big hue and cry could be created and they could portray themselves as the sole defendant of India's sovereignty. Human memory runs short and they are exploiting that. To imagine that the Communists are the champion of India's sovereignty when they had opposed the Quit India Movement (because Stalin had become the chum of UK), called the Indian Independence as False (BT Ranadive), supported the Chinese in 1962 and now they want to sabotage the Nuke deal!

That apart, the interesting fallout is not the Communists, but the other political parties who are in the Coalition that form the UPA which runs the govt headed by the Congress. Unlike the Pakistani Moslems who support Bush's War on Terror, the Indian Moslems are dead against the US and anything US.

Well I don't think it is anything new that you are blaming someone you don't like for your misfortunes! Today it is the communists, yesterday it was Lashker-E-Taiba, Day before yesterday it was the Kashmiris, before that it was Pakistan and tomarrow it will be someone else! So u are saying they are only doing this for their love of China just because their ideoligies meet? What hypocracy is this? I understand you are trying to say that the parties work for self interest but there is no self-interest i see here... the communists have always suffered hatred ever since the system was created!

Man, we support Musharrafs decision to support America in defeating al-qaeda and the taliban because they had done a wrong by slaying so many people but none of us supports the so-called war on terror which is branding great organizatons such as hezbollah and revolutionary guards as terrorists! We like most muslims hate americas pathetic foreign policy... dead against the US? I have never heard that... comeon what are you trying to prove... don't kid yourself... atleast don't make up vague statements, i can say that the muslims in Pakistan are more anti-US than those in India. A survey questioning Indians, Pakistanis, Iranians and Bangladeshis found this out! Muslims in India are less concerned about the actions of USA than the muslims of Iran and Pakistan and comeon do some of my cousins in India wanna go to USA for no reason? Don't try to invent stuff! Are you trying to say you care about your religion more than us?

Manmohan Singh is dead keen to get the 123 through, but now that the Communists may take back their support and the govt may fall leading to election, Laloo Pershad Yadav and Mulayam Singh Yadav et al have got cold feet! Suddenly, they (who are a part of the UPA or supporting the UPA) find it difficult to support the Congress on the deal, which they have been doing so far and without any protest!

Why?

Because the Moslems may vote against them in the election for supporting the 123 which is making India pro US.

It is these politicians, who have no national interest in their heart and only self interest for the gaddi (seat) who are the cause of all the divides that you observe in this country,.

Good, at least you don't blame pakistan for your internal political problems too... ohhhh so you are saying that it is the muslims who are making them change their policies? thats totally vague, a lot of other factors and reasons are involved for the parties withdrawing. You talk like all the indian muslims do not want the deal to go by and all indian mozlems are anti-US although the survey proves otherwise. Well i have never seen indians in my family swear and curse Americans as people from my Khandaan in Pakistan have.

If u wanna prove that Indian muslims are so Anti-American why do you not call urself "The Indian Taliban" and become mullahs and start a "jihad" against the Americans? Truth is if you had so many Anti-American muslims in India you would have 5 times as many problems with militancy and terrorism because those anti-americans would first think about fighting the injustices in their own country first! Yaaayy i scored a brownie point... u said u were not a mullah and you were!!! I got you!

As I said don't try to make things up, it won't work as I am half-indian no matter how much i hate being called that...

Next time you come to India, visit me and let us see which character heckles you for being a Pakistani. He will have to face me first and then you, that is if he can get past me!

It is regrettable that you say that Indian Moslems do not feel loyal to India. If my friends heard you, then these are the chaps who would really pounce on you.

What about widespread hatred for Pakistan which you have not been willing to comment upon as you cannot deny... Well my cousin told me never to mention i was a pakistani, he actually shook me and told me I was half-indian and to atleast say that. He also told me about some of the comments about pakistanis mentioned there. Some of them were:

1) This is a debate of college students of what they would do if they saw a pakistani in India:
a>The day i see a pakistani here i will kill him with my own hands!
b> I will slay him with my grand-fathers sword...
c> I will... all women in his household and will leave his father begging (because of the language they used here and how they graphically spoke about what they would do to the women it is just better to say they said "they will destroy his family")

2) We will throw pakistanis back to the gutters from where they belong

3) Pakistani males are ummm... male-oriented and deserved to be drowned...

4) Pakistani women were born to get... (well i can't mention this one cauz i will be kicked out for violating the privacy policy) they also mentioned pakistani women bleeding and screaming.

Thats some of the stuff he tells me he has heard... I know you are enjoying this and reading it over and over again just for the enjoyment dude, but i am sorry and I can't please you anymore... I mean i pleased you with these comments as you are the guests here...

Nah, i ain't too sure of that. I mean you don't need to take the trouble and you know its a dangerous world... i mean seeing you peoples love for Pakistanis portrayed through those 4 comments i heard i am quite sure you will NOT pick me off the street and beat the hell out of me as soon as you see me Yes, ofcourse i am sure to find only love, welcome and acceptance at your doorstep as I always have in India!

Anyway you haven't answered anything about Indias stand on Bangladesh and your lust for money and land which brought you there which checking back to atleast 10 pages there is nothing about! (You said it was being repeated over and over again as you said about the Pakistan hatred in India thing...) I think you should find a better excuse when you are trying to avoid stuff! and dodge difficult questions!

1. Indias stand on Bangladesh.

2. Hatred for Pakistan.

3. Treatment of minorities in India... convince me that minorities are not treated badly in your country cauz i am not in anyway convinced and nor are my family living in your own land!

So this is what I want you to answer, otherwise me and everyone on this site who has been noticing our conversation will view you as a loser. If you have any honour you will surely give a proper reply!

Just look back until page 30 to look at what I said till here! U'll know what I have been talking about!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

We celebrate the return of Salim and congratulate him as he has managed to answer atleast one question. The involvement of India in the Bangladesh War he has ignored as "irrelevent" and as "the same issue repeated in a new skin" although scrolling back down the pages will reveal that Indias involvement has not been discussed!

You aren't in the game of brownie points... oh now i know, i am so sorry that i did not realize it before! Anyway, what about the game of scoring pinkie points?

Oh, its a new issue as if i did not mention the issue in that huge post back there... okay fine, the tiger is always right!

To be frank I am tired of brownie points or pinkies that seems to be your forte.

Well atleast you aren't blaming Pakistan for your problems! Yup me too I blame the politicians too for keeping the old hatred alive but aren't many indian people like that too? I don't think some hindus need the governments help to hate muslims.

Only the weak and insecure, who do not wish to admit their own faults like to blame others. It is 60 years that have gone past and if countries have not stabilised and are full of insecurity, it is the fault of their system and the weakness and fear of its people. Only those who are not confident of their own beliefs are the one who squirm and shake and blame the world.

I am not the spokesman for India, but on a personal note, I reckon idiots need not belong to only one country. Idiots are beyond borders and if some people hate Moslems, then they are idiots and viuce versa.

But the muslim population is too small in proportion to the hindu population so i don't really think your votes count that much! Thats what my uncle told me... he said muslims in india were like cattle led to wherever the qovernment led them or wanted them to go! Caste divide? The muslim caste in India suffer much more proverty than other castes... muslims as a caste in india are weak and ignored as well! I dunno why you don't see it. Well i haven't ever heard of "muslim votes making or breaking the government" Has any government in India ever been formed because of the widespread acceptance of muslims?

The Indian govt is not to be formed for the acceptance of any community. It has to be acceptable to Indians of all hues. Why should a govt of India be formed to please Moslems alone? I fail to see the logic. Are govts of Pakistan formed to please the Christians and Hindus? Is the US President voted in to please the Negros? All govt is for the people, of the people and by the people! That is democracy!

I am afraid, with all due regards to your Uncle, he has to visit the rural India to realise what is poverty and then make a judgement. Laloo Pershad of Bihar and Mulayam Singh of UP are perfect example of what happens when the Yadav and Moslem votes get split. 20 years of fooling the people on false promises made all see the hoax being perpetuated for the politician personal power!

Salim are you going to some madrassa in india? Joey said many muslims go to madrassahs in india but i haven't seen or heard about a single one going to madrassahs... Well you did tell me that you were uneducated and unskilled so you stayed in India, remember... so I thought about asking you!

I live in Bengal. Yes, quite a few Moslems go to the Madrassas. Nothing wrong in that. The West Bengal govt has formalised the education and has brought it at par with the Higher Secondary level of education. I never said I am uneducated or unskilled. Does my English indicate it so? I said the majority of Moslems who remained were not the educated ones and to whom it matter nothing since all the high morals being spouted during the Partition in no way affected their sad state of affairs! You must understand the fear of the unknown. The Homeland for Moslem i.e. Pakistan was a great salve for the soul for the Moslems, but to the unlettered, they neither had seen it or experienced it. In India, they knew exactly where they were and what could be expected of life, because they had seen and experienced it. Therefore, for the good or the worse, they took comfort in the known.

Till late, Indian Moslems did not strive to improve themselves. However, when the majority realised that a small family would make the family income go a long way, they did their best and got their children educated. Today, they occupy high ranks in govt, police and even the Army where the Deputy Chief is a Moslem! The richest man in India is the IT King, who just happens to be a Moslem! Those days are gone where the Moslem was merely an artisan and a shanty dweller!

Well I don't think it is anything new that you are blaming someone you don't like for your misfortunes! Today it is the communists, yesterday it was Lashker-E-Taiba, Day before yesterday it was the Kashmiris, before that it was Pakistan and tomarrow it will be someone else! So u are saying they are only doing this for their love of China just because their ideoligies meet? What hypocracy is this? I understand you are trying to say that the parties work for self interest but there is no self-interest i see here... the communists have always suffered hatred ever since the system was created!

I am not blaming Communists at all. I am just indicating what scoundrels they are. I have held this opinion all through. Would you appreciate if a Pakistan held allegiance to a foreign power? If you do, then you are a Saint. I am no Saint and I know that.

It is a interesting idea of yours that political parties don't work for their self interest. I presume, BB, NS, Musharraf, the Choudhuris, Imran Khan, Altaf et al are all Second Coming of Christ to heal the world, more importantly, Pakistan!

Man, we support Musharrafs decision to support America in defeating al-qaeda and the taliban because they had done a wrong by slaying so many people but none of us supports the so-called war on terror which is branding great organizatons such as hezbollah and revolutionary guards as terrorists! We like most muslims hate americas pathetic foreign policy... dead against the US? I have never heard that... comeon what are you trying to prove... don't kid yourself... atleast don't make up vague statements, i can say that the muslims in Pakistan are more anti-US than those in India. A survey questioning Indians, Pakistanis, Iranians and Bangladeshis found this out! Muslims in India are less concerned about the actions of USA than the muslims of Iran and Pakistan and comeon do some of my cousins in India wanna go to USA for no reason? Don't try to invent stuff! Are you trying to say you care about ur religion more than us?

The interesting part is that I have no religion since in my opinion religion bogs down a person's individuality. Religion is also necessary for those who require the some crutch to make up for the deficiency of the confidence in oneself. All religions speak of good, but all religions work to organise strife and divide mankind. Think of it. Are you any different from me or is a AQ activist any different from my physical attributes? So, why kill on something one has not seen?

I am not here on a competition which country's Moslem hate the US more. If Pakistanis are rabidly against the US so be it. But sadly, one should not also extend the begging bowl to someone one hates!

Good, at least you don't blame pakistan for your internal political problems too... ohhhh so you are saying that it is the muslims who are making them change their policies? thats totally vague, a lot of other factors and reasons are involved for the parties withdrawing. You talk like all the indian muslims do not want the deal to go by and all indians are anti-US although the survey proves otherwise. Well i have never seen indians in my family swear and curse Americans as people from my Khandaan in Pakistan have.

I give way. You and your relatives know more about India than anyone in India. It is fine with me.

If u wanna prove that Indian muslims are so Anti-American why do you not call urself "The Indian Taliban" and become mullahs and start a "jihad" against the Americans? Truth is if you had so many Anti-American muslims in India you would have 5 times as many problems with militancy and terrorism because those anti-americans would first think about fighting the injustices in their own country first! Yaaayy i scored a brownie point... u said u were not a mullah and you were!!! I got you!

Why should I go on a jihad against the US?

What harm have they done to my country?

Only a lunatic or a oddball like Don Quixote fought against windmills!

As I said don't try to make things up, it won't work as I am half-indian no matter how much i hate it...

Good that at least you have the goodness and guts claim that you are half Indian. Hopefully, you will bridge this stupid gap that Indians and Pakistanis love to dwell in.

What about widespread hatred for Pakistan which you have not been willing to comment upon as you cannot deny... Well my cousin told me never to mention i was a pakistani, he actually shook me and told me I was half-indian and to atleast say that. He also told me about some of the comments about pakistanis mentioned there. Some of them were:

1) This is a debate of college students of what they would do if they saw a pakistani in India:
a>The day i see a pakistani here i will kill him with my own hands!
b> I will slay him with my grand-fathers sword...
c> I will... all women in his household and will leave his father begging (because of the language they used here and how they graphically spoke about what they would do to the women it is just better to say they said "they will destroy his family")

2) We will throw pakistanis back to the gutters from where they belong

3) Pakistani males are ummm... male-oriented and deserved to be drowned...

4) Pakistani women were born to get... (well i can't mention this one cauz i will be kicked out for violating the privacy policy) they also mentioned pakistani women bleeding and screaming.

Thats some of the stuff he tells me he has heard... I know you are enjoying this and reading it over and over again just for the heck of it dude but i am sorry and I can't please you anymore... i mean i did please you with these comments as you are the guests here...

Nah, i ain't too sure of that. I mean you don't need to take the trouble and you know its a dangerous world... i mean seeing you peoples love for Pakistanis portrayed through those 4 comments i heard i am quite sure you will NOT pick me off the street and beat the hell out of me as soon as you see me Yes, ofcourse i am sure to find only love, welcome and acceptance at your doorstep as I always have in India!

If big talk could mean the destruction, then the world would have been destroyed long back. The silly statements of silly college boys are things that I couldn't care less about. They can take a running jump into the Arabian Sea and if they are so sure, whey don't they put their money where there is mouth is?

Anyway you haven't answered anything about Indias stand on Bangladesh and your lust for money and land which brought you there which checking back to atleast 10 pages there is nothing about! (You said it was being repeated over and over again as you said about the Pakistan hatred in India thing...) I think you should find a better excuse when you are trying to avoid stuff!

1. Indias stand on Bangladesh.

2. Hatred for Pakistan.

3. Treatment of minorities in India... convince me that minorities are not treated badly in your country cauz i am not in anyway convinced and nor are my family living in your own land!

So this is what I want you to answer me otherwise me and everyone on this site who has been noticing our conversation will view you as a loser. If you have any honour you will surely give a proper reply

Just look back until page 30 to look at what I said till here! U'll know what I have been talking about!

Does it please you immensely that I look a loser?

And does it really matter to me as to what some in the cyberspace think of me?

Hardly.

Chum, I have been banned from two forums of the cyberspace and I have been asked to return.

That proves my worth and it also proves that there is some value in what I say.

However, that does not in anyway mean I am a Khalifa!

 

[haviZsultan]

Woah, that was quick. Looks like you were very angry when you typed that... you know like the sort of rage u gyz felt when you lost Pakistan. Hrrrrrr!!! Anyway, atleast take more time to read the post... u made sum mistakes

To be frank I am tired of brownie points or pinkies that seems to be your forte.

How unfortunate! I was thinking of having some more fun! Read my post... i've even praised you in the end!

Only the weak and insecure, who do not wish to admit their own faults like to blame others. It is 60 years that have gone past and if countries have not stabilised and are full of insecurity, it is the fault of their system and the weakness and fear of its people. Only those who are not confident of their own beliefs are the one who squirm and shake and blame the world.

I am not the spokesman for India, but on a personal note, I reckon idiots need not belong to only one country. Idiots are beyond borders and if some people hate Moslems, then they are idiots and viuce versa.

Huh! Did'nt you just blame your system... so that means you are not confident in your beliefs and feel insecure?

True, atleast you managed to admit that India has idiots too instead of trying to pick the ones in Pakistan and then shouting that you found an idiot in Pakistan!

The Indian govt is not to be formed for the acceptance of any community. It has to be acceptable to Indians of all hues. Why should a govt of India be formed to please Moslems alone? I fail to see the logic. Are govts of Pakistan formed to please the Christians and Hindus? Is the US President voted in to please the Negros? All govt is for the people, of the people and by the people! That is democracy!

I am afraid, with all due regards to your Uncle, he has to visit the rural India to realise what is poverty and then make a judgement. Laloo Pershad of Bihar and Mulayam Singh of UP are perfect example of what happens when the Yadav and Moslem votes get split. 20 years of fooling the people on false promises made all see the hoax being perpetuated for the politician personal power!

Yes i know, that makes India a democratic country. I never said it should be formed to please Moslems alone! Why are u making things up again? Anyway that proves that ur votes do not even count because the majorities votes nullify them... it proves that the government has no need to look after your interests! It is all but true... deny it if you want!

A mistake u made: My uncle was talking about the political scenario in India not proverty! He meant that muslims had no political power and just moved with the winds if i may call it so! U admitted that the previous governments made false promises!!! Did you see a new sun today?

I live in Bengal. Yes, quite a few Moslems go to the Madrassas. Nothing wrong in that. The West Bengal govt has formalised the education and has brought it at par with the Higher Secondary level of education. I never said I am uneducated or unskilled. Does my English indicate it so? I said the majority of Moslems who remained were not the educated ones and to whom it matter nothing since all the high morals being spouted during the Partition in no way affected their sad state of affairs! You must understand the fear of the unknown. The Homeland for Moslem i.e. Pakistan was a great salve for the soul for the Moslems, but to the unlettered, they neither had seen it or experienced it. In India, they knew exactly where they were and what could be expected of life, because they had seen and experienced it. Therefore, for the good or the worse, they took comfort in the known.

Till late, Indian Moslems did not strive to improve themselves. However, when the majority realised that a small family would make the family income go a long way, they did their best and got their children educated. Today, they occupy high ranks in govt, police and even the Army where the Deputy Chief is a Moslem! The richest man in India is the IT King, who just happens to be a Moslem! Those days are gone where the Moslem was merely an artisan and a shanty dweller!

What are you trying to say? So this is your life story? So this is why you stayed in India? Okay i feel sorry for you is this what you wanted me to say? Yeah i understand you people had no choice! Don't worry though... keep smiling!

You really think so! Yeah, but the majority is still hostile towards you and unwilling to let you reach that position! Its great that some people have still managed but otherwise muslims are the weakest group in your country!

I am not blaming Communists at all. I am just indicating what scoundrels they are. I have held this opinion all through. Would you appreciate if a Pakistan held allegiance to a foreign power? If you do, then you are a Saint. I am no Saint and I know that.

It is a interesting idea of yours that political parties don't work for their self interest. I presume, BB, NS, Musharraf, the Choudhuris, Imran Khan, Altaf et al are all Second Coming of Christ to heal the world, more importantly, Pakistan!

Scoundrels!?!?... you are blaming them! You just blamed them of being scoundrels! So you are saying they have woved their allegiance to china without any proof! This proves that you are insecure and your postition is weak! Let me tell you where this insecurity comes from! Because u don't like China which has supported us and helped us very often.
I dunno why you people have this constant urge to punish Pakistanis and anyone who has supported them or helped them in the past and present! This is where your hate for the communist party comes from and so does this absurd idea that support of the party comes from China! This same hatred brought you to Bangladesh... man, do you learn nothing from your past???

This is why i said u made mistakes! Read carefully! I said that political parties DO work for self-interest but i also said that the Communist Party gains nothing for itself< no self interest> by being a puppet of China!!!

The interesting part is that I have no religion since in my opinion religion bogs down a person's individuality. Religion is also necessary for those who require the some crutch to make up for the deficiency of the confidence in oneself. All religions speak of good, but all religions work to organise strife and divide mankind. Think of it. Are you any different from me or is a AQ activist any different from my physical attributes? So, why kill on something one has not seen?

I am not here on a competition which country's Moslem hate the US more. If Pakistanis are rabidly against the US so be it. But sadly, one should not also extend the begging bowl to someone one hates!

True. I follow your lead! I have no religion either! I do what you do Yes religions do divide man-kind! true to the core!... Well i haven't seen you exactly to compare physical attributes... just kidding!

Well i agree, yup, its one of the few pieces of truth that come from you! <no kidding>

Well you started the competition by saying Indians hate Americans more so i just presented you with the truth! Hey, don't get used to it... we are not begging them for anything unlike India screaming for a nuclear deal to get through. We just did what was best for our nation and we will continue doing it for centuries to come no matter how much u want Pakistan to get buried under the ground!

I give way. You and your relatives know more about India than anyone in India. It is fine with me.

Thank you very much! See thats what i am talking about! You should do this often! Anyway I always knew I was right! I think its my perfection that i have come to rely on...

Why should I go on a jihad against the US?

What harm have they done to my country?

Only a lunatic or a oddball like Don Quixote fought against windmills!

Well u were suggesting that all indian muslims were mullahs and anti-american so it makes sense...

The nuclear deal? Is'nt that harm? They might withdraw from the deal so that would give you reason enough to attack them!

I think i will write all your examples down! "A lunitic will fight against windmills"... okay done, the tiger is always right! Next!

Good that at least you have the goodness and guts claim that you are half Indian. Hopefully, you will bridge this stupid gap that Indians and Pakistanis love to dwell in.

Well i wish to and so do many Pakistanis but you guys simply do not give us the opportunity to do so! In truth what i say today is the result of the treatment I recieved in your country and from your countrymen and the constant bias i felt there as does my family there! Furthermore you do not want to admit your mistakes while u want to keep highlighting ours and spraying salt on old wounds!

I mean it is true is it not? What are you doing to change it? Majority of you are not even ready to admit your mistakes... Does it not embarass you to hear all this about the treatment of minorities, treatment of pakistanis etc. in your country which you cannot even deny? You are a muslim, you cannot deny the fact that prejudices still remain as no muslim in India can!

So the question is do YOU want to bridge the gap? Do you come here daily to set our differences aside? If yes then we would readily die to destroy that gap that exists between us! <No humour there my freind!>

If big talk could mean the destruction, then the world would have been destroyed long back. The silly statements of silly college boys are things that I couldn't care less about. They can take a running jump into the Arabian Sea and if they are so sure, whey don't they put their money where there is mouth is?

Well the sort of rage they insite within us u wud not imagine! No one can hear all this about his family and his people! These people are destroying your reputation all across the world do you know that? Do you even care? No, it does'nt mean destruction directly but it does mean hatred, murder and slaughter! These are the sort of comments that lead to them!

Anyway atleast u are admitting that they were wrong!

Does it please you immensely that I look a loser?

And does it really matter to me as to what some in the cyberspace think of me?

Hardly.

Chum, I have been banned from two forums of the cyberspace and I have been asked to return.

That proves my worth and it also proves that there is some value in what I say.

However, that does not in anyway mean I am a Khalifa!

No, it does not! I have no intention of making you look like a loser... but your actions decide if you are a loser or not! I would say that today you are a winner because you have admitted that there are injustices in your country and there are people who hate muslims and/or Pakistanis and that they are wrong! For you that is a lot! It is nice to think like a human if you have noticed

I don't suppose so!

Oh really i have been banned from 3. Ohhh really how does it feel like to be banned and called back and how do i know u did not pay the site behind the curtain to bring you back just so u could come here and say this?

I know u are very worthy! I understand, true, true, ofcourse there is value, ya ya... u're more valueble than a diamond. Ofcourse u are Khalifa... i mean there is so much value in what u say, ur words means more than the words of a thousand souls... if any1n denies you he should commit suicide!

Yeah, now I do view you as the more moderate of the Indians and I respect you for not blindly supporting all the "idiots" i have talked about! I have never seen an Indian admit his countries mistakes before... but may i ask what brings this sudden turn and makes you think like a human! It almost makes me pity you because seeing such a thing is so rare! Salim is an endangered species now!!!

Okay, now what about my 3 questions?

 

[joey]

Sir, my family in india lives in Lucknow, Chowk area behind where that run-down police station is and i hav family in delhi and bombay as well. (dunno the proper locations though!) I mean they told me all this themselves, if u wanna ask them u are more than welcome... even i've been there 5 times and i've felt the majorities bias all the time! Each time i mentioned i am a Pakistani i recieved a tirade of anti-pakistani talk, the dislike shows clearly on the faces!

Man it is the truth, that is the way minorities in your country feel! Ignored and unaccepted! They don't go around saying it all the time cauz they are afraid but inside thats how many of them feel. I have heard of no one in my Indian family sending kids to madrassas and they barely seem to know if they exist! Lose election? Indias Population is:

Hindu 80.5&#37;, Muslim 13.4%, Christian 2.3%, Sikh 1.9%, other 1.8%, unspecified 0.1%
<https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/in.html>

If hindus represent 80% of the population and muslim 13% that definately means that politicians do not even have to care about the muslim population as they can win the election anyway! There is a hindu majority everywhere exept in Kashmir where the muslims are oppressed! tchhhh... is'nt the government at fault for ignoring them and favouring hindus all this time! You can even take me as an example, i am supposed to be half indian but I've loved only Pakistan! Why? So i say about so many muslims... why do they not feel as loyal to india as hindus, the answer is simply because you never accepted them!

(Genmirajborgza i await ur reply to that huge post back there!)

Dear I dont think you have proper idea to analyse on the broader base your trying to repsent or speak off,

1. Anti-Pakistani taunts does not relates to being anti-minority.
2. Yes How many you want to see peoples opting for madrasas over primary school? come to my place I'll show you.
3. You have ZERO idea about Indian politics, Indian Muslim population is heterogenous and plays a pivotal role in politics, and yes their vote bank is considered hugely important for most political parties because not a single group is homogenous in India. I repeat this again their vote bank can change election scenario due to the heterogenous level of their population dispersal.
4. PM me your families address, if you dont mind.
5. Whats your age? No offence meant.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Dimension,

Again you have gone on a street agitationist attitude. You know the professional type - those who would do anything for money, ideology or logic not being the criterion.

I give way. I am not a street fighter!

 

[joey]

I wrote a big/good reply but it got lost due to mainframe crash...so i'm typing it in short again..

Is 40&#37; v 22% on under $6 a day not a big deal in the cities?

Yes It is a big deal if you see it that way, But your not getting the point here, The population is not homogenous for the kind of survey ,Time is speaking of absolute data by which no Economic representation can be done nor can you conclude discrimination in economic front without proper macro-economic data, Please refer to one of the official and very recent survey I gave to you which speaks of a survey from good volume in average household income where Muslims are no behind Hindu peers, This is becoming much like the talk since Muslims are getting inside jail in Mumbai blast case it must be Muslims who are victimised by police in India, Consider this expert from this report written by Omair Ahmed,

Indian Muslims in Jail

In such cases it is possibly best to check the facts. The prison statistics from the National Crimes Record Bureau indicate that the percentage of Muslims convicts in India is 19.1%, while the number of undertrials is 22.5%.

This is higher than the percentage of Muslims living in India, at 13.4% or thereabouts. It would be tempting to shout, &#8220;Aha! Proof of bias!&#8221; but a rigorous analysis would lead to a more nuanced view because of the geographic distribution of both prison population and Muslims. Over half of Indian Muslims live in the four states of Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, West Bengal and Assam, which account for 21% of convicted prisoners and 42% of undertrials in Indian jails. In effect Indian Muslims live in geographic areas where more people are sent to jail, either as convicts or as undertrials.

A far more fascinating result is that the percentage of Muslims who are undertrials is slightly less than that of those convicted. In other words proportionately more Muslims are adjudged &#8220;innocent&#8221; than Hindus (whose undertrial to convict ratio is: 69.6% to 70.7% and even Christians (whose undertrial to convict ratio is 3.8% to 4.2%).

Indian Muslims and Crime

The question of bias could also be turned on its head, and it could be said that high proportionately of Muslims means more crime. The data does not support such a conclusion.

The two states where such high population of people are in jail, Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, have a Muslim population of 18.5% and 16.5% respectively and contribute 6.7% and 5.4% of All-India crimes . West Bengal and Assam, in which the percentage of Muslims is at 25.2% and 30.9%, contribute only 3.6% and 2.3% of all-India crimes.

Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu all produce more than 8.5% of India&#8217;s crimes individually, making them the most crime-prone states in the country. In all of these high crime states Indian Muslims make up, at the most, 10.6% of the population, less than the Indian average.

The one state where Muslims constitute a majority of the population, at 67% in Jammu & Kashmir, which has been wracked by militancy and violence, contributes to only 1.1% of Indian crime, about the same as its population compared to all-India figures.

Put the same point of view which I'm trying to adress on the income level issue.

With this attitude, you can see why minorities are discriminated against in Bharat.

Well I dont think my attitude or point of view translates to discrimination of minorities.

Saying that the poor figures for Muslims compared to Hindus is due to the Muslims own fault is exactly the sort of problem that will ensure this sort of discrimination is never sorted out in Bharat, as the article from TIME suggests.

This is precisely the mistake your making, The fault really is with ones own community, To realise this you first need to know Muslim communities in India are not a homogenous community, A muslim community from South Bengal is normally more progressive than a Muslim community from North bengal, Such disparity exists everywhere, I put Bengal to represent a scale when Replace bengal with say a district. You need to realise just because Bihar as a state is not well off economically than haryana and muslim population in Bihar is more than in Haryana which in absolute scale would look like discrimination against minorities but NO, because here you need to factor in to compare the Muslims of Bihar with that of Hindus of Bihar. I've put this up simply without anything in detail but if you do bigger introspection you will see how the problem lies with themselves only and ofcouse times the leadership they represents.

There is a reason why people send kids to madrassahs. The reason in Pakistan is that people who cannot afford educaion can get free education in madrassahs, the same is probably true of Bharat.

Government has primary school everywhere and they are free, and that is not the reason people send their kids to madrasas, sometimes they feels it is better to send them to madarasas over school, It is a heterogenous nature which you cannot change like this, which depends upon community to community.

I have told you before that Madrasa education is recognised and IMO there are some very bright students who comes from madrasa (probably those who stoods first/second/third in their board exams and they are directly picked up by universities), Problem is with the average joe madrasa education in a capitalistic society does not gets much recognition in ones later career life, nor the type of curriculum includes looking into the way of life the way it will propell one to opt for into the vigorous world of competition, thus they tend to be on the losing side, This is not uncommon for even state boards when students from there go in national level institutions, forget madrasas! This only stands for good madrasas, forget the madrasas that people normally opts for more in villages.

The whole system in Bharat is against the Muslims.

You should not simply conclude something like this, because it is incorrect plain and simple.

They are poorer than the Hindus, and less of them can afford schools, so they send them to madrassahs and get a poor education which is at least an education. The solution to this even I know, yet the Bharat government hasnt implemented any solution. They like you, also blame it on the Muslims themselves who are too poor to afford Bharati schools. As soon as the proper quotas are given to Muslims in jobs within public and later private sector, the Muslims of Bharat will continue to send their children to madrassahs for an education and you will still continue your baseless denial that it is their own faults for sending them to such centres even though you disregard the reasons why the system is so against them that they have to resort to doing this. This is true discrimination, not what Pakistan was doing pre-1971 in both parts of the country.

Please look What I said above regarding poorer points I also have presented you a article of official survey regarding the same before, as of quotas they are here for long time in government sector, hundreds are getting employed and hundreds are not getting employed, Recently I know one of SSC person who is a Muslim got employed in SSC (School Service Comission) whereeas his 2 Muslim friends did not got selected, so you'll ask them they'll say yes there are politics inside you'll ask the one who got selected he'll say 'if you do it right it will go on right', It is just to give you a perspective of view points.

Regarding Quotas in public sector, they are here from independence, What good have they done? I'll be damned if you can show me such quotas has helped for 50 years nor they will help things any more, The Sacchar report which talks of 29% quotas for certain gruops has been put on hold by the Apex court, and there is a damning reason for that. Quotas including the creamy layer are nothing but a excuse of vote bank politics and not de-centralising the education system in a better way among interior parts of country.

Lastly I'm no way putting the Muslim minority community as a highly progressive one like the Parsis, but to say majority discriminate against them being the reason of their backwardness with absolute data without introspection is nothing but oversimplication of a highly complex fact. Minorities in India are far and far free as being a 3rd world country than they can imagine of being in other countries of the same stature. Obviously some may argue it is secular the others times not, but non-secularism is alone not the reason of committing discrimination.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Dimesnion

You said you wanted to have fun and I reckon that is what you want.

However, it is too tiresome to read through your posts as it is too long and appear to say the same thing.

He meant that muslims had no political power

It is immaterial whether Hindus, Moslems, Buddhists , Christians, Sikhs have political power. Don't you think that it is adequate that Indians themselves, irrespective of religion or community, have political power?

Where is the requirement whether a Moslem have political power or a Hindu has political power? Where is the requirement for a Tamil to have political power or a Punjabi to have political power. Is it not adequate that Indians have political power?

Example: Musharraf has political power. Does it mean that he is only looking after Sunnis and Mohajirs? Would it not be stupid if a Shia or a Punjabi claim discrimination that they have no political power because Musharraf, a Mohajir is the Head of the country! If that be the logic, then it is asinine logic as stupid as the thought Moslems have no political power in India!