Creation of Bangladesh

[haviZsultan]

Dimesnion

You said you wanted to have fun and I reckon that is what you want.

However, it is too tiresome to read through your posts as it is too long and appear to say the same thing.



It is immaterial whether Hindus, Moslems, Buddhists , Christians, Sikhs have political power. Don't you think that it is adequate that Indians themselves, irrespective of religion or community, have political power?


Where is the requirement whether a Moslem have political power or a Hindu has political power? Where is the requirement for a Tamil to have political power or a Punjabi to have political power. Is it not adequate that Indians have political power?

Example: Musharraf has political power. Does it mean that he is only looking after Sunnis and Mohajirs? Would it not be stupid if a Shia or a Punjabi claim discrimination that they have no political power because Musharraf, a Mohajir is the Head of the country! If that be the logic, then it is asinine logic as stupid as the thought Moslems have no political power in India!

Atleast read the post! I went on to praise you and call you a more moderate indian than others and you are trying to tell me you are not a moderate indian?

What same thing? Why do you always do this when you don't want to answer! See u are blaming me now which means you are insecure! (according to you) There is always sumthing new... its a large post!

All I am saying is that your votes simply do not count as the majorities nullify them... I mean obviously being a tamil or a muslim or whatever your views and desires are different!

I did not say that the current government deos not care about you but i was just saying that they don't really have to. I mean municipal and provincial government elections can be fine for some states, e.g. Hyderabad which has 60% hindu-40% muslim. Hydrabadis may get some stuff they want in these elections... and play a significant role for voting for the provincial government and local govt. But in truth they have no power in federal government and the choices your country makes!

You cannot change your countries foriegn policy for example many muslims in 1971 war did not want india to get involved in it. If you make up 13% of the poplulation then even if all that 13% vote against a government it makes little or no difference! That is all i am saying!

You are indeed like cattle... also the way your poplulation is divided all across india makes you weak for example you are not the majority in any single state! You will go whereever your government takes you and are dependent on a good leader... the day someone who does not care about your views and opinions comes along that day you are in trouble!!! You are not playing any great role in electing your government I am sorry to say! Deny if you want!

No fun in this post! mate!

 

[roadrunner]

Yes It is a big deal if you see it that way, But your not getting the point here, The population is not homogenous for the kind of survey ,Time is speaking of absolute data by which no Economic representation can be done nor can you conclude discrimination in economic front without proper macro-economic data, Please refer to one of the official and very recent survey I gave to you which speaks of a survey from good volume in average household income where Muslims are no behind Hindu peers, This is becoming much like the talk since Muslims are getting inside jail in Mumbai blast case it must be Muslims who are victimised by police in India, Consider this expert from this report written by Omair Ahmed,

Wait wait wait. You say Time is speaking of "absolute" data, and that you cannot conclude discrimination on "macro-economic" data. Can you explain what you mean by this? Time is speaking of data from urban centres and rural ones isn't it? It doesn't seem to give a source, but you've concluded the data must be irrelevant. Can you explain why you have come to this conclusion?

This is precisely the mistake your making, The fault really is with ones own community, To realise this you first need to know Muslim communities in India are not a homogenous community, A muslim community from South Bengal is normally more progressive than a Muslim community from North bengal, Such disparity exists everywhere, I put Bengal to represent a scale when Replace bengal with say a district. You need to realise just because Bihar as a state is not well off economically than haryana and muslim population in Bihar is more than in Haryana which in absolute scale would look like discrimination against minorities but NO, because here you need to factor in to compare the Muslims of Bihar with that of Hindus of Bihar. I've put this up simply without anything in detail but if you do bigger introspection you will see how the problem lies with themselves only and ofcouse times the leadership they represents.

Again, you're assuming the people at TIMEasia don't know how to do a proper survey or have changed figures tosuit their content. Why would the people at TIMEasia select one Muslim from Bihar, and then take a more progressive Hindu from Delhi to compare to. Where is your evidence that TIMEasia have done this, or are you just assuming they've done this?

Government has primary school everywhere and they are free, and that is not the reason people send their kids to madrasas, sometimes they feels it is better to send them to madarasas over school, It is a heterogenous nature which you cannot change like this, which depends upon community to community.

Right. Primary school education is free. But Bharat doesn't have enough primary schools for all the children there. This much is pretty well known. So for the unfortunate Muslims who do not have the opportunity to send them to free primary schools, free madrassah education is the only other option. What about secondary education, is that free?

Please look What I said above regarding poorer points I also have presented you a article of official survey regarding the same before, as of quotas they are here for long time in government sector, hundreds are getting employed and hundreds are not getting employed, Recently I know one of SSC person who is a Muslim got employed in SSC (School Service Comission) whereeas his 2 Muslim friends did not got selected, so you'll ask them they'll say yes there are politics inside you'll ask the one who got selected he'll say 'if you do it right it will go on right', It is just to give you a perspective of view points.

Give the link to your survey.

Regarding Quotas in public sector, they are here from independence, What good have they done? I'll be damned if you can show me such quotas has helped for 50 years nor they will help things any more, The Sacchar report which talks of 29% quotas for certain gruops has been put on hold by the Apex court, and there is a damning reason for that. Quotas including the creamy layer are nothing but a excuse of vote bank politics and not de-centralising the education system in a better way among interior parts of country.

Quotas need to be implemented, not just announced for publicity means. 3% out of a population of 13% is not implementing quotas.

Lastly I'm no way putting the Muslim minority community as a highly progressive one like the Parsis, but to say majority discriminate against them being the reason of their backwardness with absolute data without introspection is nothing but oversimplication of a highly complex fact. Minorities in India are far and far free as being a 3rd world country than they can imagine of being in other countries of the same stature. Obviously some may argue it is secular the others times not, but non-secularism is alone not the reason of committing discrimination.

What absolute data are you talking about? I don't see how you're coming to your conclusions the TIMEasia survey is wrong.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Dimension,

Noticed how many Moslems are in the forefront these days compared to the earlier times?

Sportsmen and women and filmstars are the best for mass appeal to change the mindset. Who is leading out there? One does not have to be a bull in a china shop!

Heard of the Haneef's case where he was declared a terrorist by the Australian govt. Observed the Indian reaction there?

India is not the same place as what it was in 1947.

And, oh yes, I forgot.....
Rome was not built in one day!

Read the Sunni Shia divide thread on this forum. Except for Blain, there is a whole lot of realism dawning!

Let reality dawn and delusions fade in all aspects of life!

In this very forum when it was PFF, there was a silly debate whether Jinnah was a Shia or a Sunni. All forgot that whatever he may have been, his contribution to Moslems was what was important. The trouble is that one loves to wallow in the irrelevant and loses the sight of the big picture. Little battles to be won, even if the war is lost! What logic! Cut the nose to spite the face! Missing the wood for the trees!

Here, there are think tanks who blame Bengalis and India for breaking up Pakistan. Will it change history? It won't. And yet look at the US. It runs on merrily treading on all corns conceivable. And yet everyone craves for that Green Card! Even those who think that the US is the Great White Satan. What is the lure? The lure is that it is a very successful country that is rich, powerful and attractive! So, if we are not rich, powerful and attractive, then why blame people who do not wish to hang around.

Doctor, heal thyself is the only answer. Introspection.

Before some goes on the Bharat this and Bharat that, I would add that even India has to face destiny as it comes! No crying over spilt milk!

 

[akzaman]

My dad Brigadier (Retd) Akhter Hamid Khan was sent to East Pakistan in 1971 to fight Sk. Muibur Rahman- An Appeal to Shabbir Bashar Bhai Sahab

Akhter Javed Khan, Pakistan

I have been surfing NFB since last six months. I have never written in a media or public forum before. I was born in Bangladesh (East Pakistan) and brought up in Karachi, Pakistan. My life history has kept me sad for most of my childhood and adult life. Most of the time I was shaky and felt embarrassed. I didn't grow up like any other normal child and I have always wondered why my life has been like this. I was brought up mostly by my grand parents.

My dad, a retired Pakistan Army Officer lived in a different city and used to visit his parents time to time. He always avoided me. I never felt his love for a son and he was always angry with me. I always wondered why he lives in a different city with his wife and 4 children, and why I could not live with them. Why his wife was not my mother and his children were not my brothers and sisters. My grandparents always avoided my questions on this issue. My grandmother once told me that his wife was not my biological mother. I always felt very inferior and neglected. When I was in college, one day I asked my grandfather about all these mysteries surrounding my dad's behaviour towards me.

Initially, he didn't reply anything and was pretending busy reading a book. I got little arrogant and raised my voice and was insisting him to explain. He lost his patience and slapped me. He scolded me for being very disrespectful and arrogant and said, no wonder my behaviour was like that because I was half 'Bangal'. That incident had an strong impact on me. I then asked one of my grandfather's friend and neighbour about it. He was kind and said I would learn when I grow up more. But he said I was born in East Pakistan. Recently, my dad had a stroke and was almost paralyzed. Finally, he improved and one day came to my grandparent's home. For the first time, he showed affection to me and opened up all the mysteries and questions I have been searching for.

My dad Brigadier (Retd) Akhter Hamid Khan was sent to East Pakistan in 1971 to fight Sk. Muibur Rahman and hid followers who were mostly influenced by Hindus and Indians. Mr. Rahman was a traitor and wanted to separate East Pakistan from Pakistan. My father was a young Captain and was posted in a district called Kustia. Followers of Mr. Rahman and Indian agents were fighting against Pakistan army. The army recruited some local people to help Pakistan army and fight the Indian agents.

One of the members from a helping force named 'Al-Badar' worked directly with my dad. His name was Ismael Hossain. One day, with his help the local army unit raided a house of a local school teacher because Ismael informed that two of his sons were Mr. Rahman's follower and have gone to India for army training to join Indian agents. Army arrested the teacher and his young daughter who was a Higher Secondary student. Her name was Romela and she was detained for interrogation.

My dad got the responsibility to interrogate her. She was confined for 2 months when he developed a relationship with her. After two months, my dad was posted in another city Chittagong but before leaving Kustia, he released her. Romela , an unmarried young lady wanted to commit suicide and didn't return home. Ismalel kept her in another location under his custody. After 3 more months, Ismael met my dad in Chittagong and told him that Romela was pregnant and my father was the cause of her pregnancy. That is when he informed that Romela didn't return to her home and is under Ismael's custody. My father just gave him some money. Few days later in October, 1971, my father got inured in a fight and was sent to Peshawar Military hospital.

Mr. Rahman's forces with the help of Indian agents separated East Pakistan and Ismael left Kustia and escaped to a village near Chittagong. Romela gave birth to her child in June 1972, and unfortunately, I was that child. In 1973, local people started doubting Ismael's identity and he finally escaped to India with my mother. They lived for about 7 months in India near Luckhnow. Ismael worked in a local cloth factory. He then decided to come to Pakistan for a better future. He and my mother managed to come to Pakistan crossing the border.

We spent another 3 months in Karachi and a local Imam gave us shelter. Since, Ismael was close to my dad during his days in Kustia, he decided to search for my father. My mom also wanted to see him and handover me to him for a better life. The imam contacted some local people and finally could locate my dad's address. At that time, my dad was already married and living with my grand parents. When Ismael and my mom came to his house, there was a scene. My father refused to accept my mom and me. Finally, my grandmother wanted to keep me and not my mother. They gave her some money and asked them to leave. My dad eventually was posted in a different city and left with his wife.

I had a series of reaction after I knew all these from my dad. He said, Ismael contacted him few more times and eventually went back to Bangladesh in 1976 after Mujibur Rahman was killed.

For few months, I could not function normally and then started reading about Bangladesh. I knew about NFB after searching in Google. I contacted one senior journalist in Karachi and learnt a lot about 1971 and Mujibur Rahman. I also learnt that most probably my mother was raped in custody by my dad and I am a product of rape. When I thought about the sacrifice and pain of my mother, I felt a strong urge to see her.

It looks like an impossible task for me. I know nobody in Bangladesh and nothing about my mother's present whereabouts. I don't know if she is even alive or not. In my imagination, I have traveled to Bangladesh many times and could reach my mom; but in reality, I am lost in a huge ocean. I am scared to travel to Bangladesh and do not know how people would take me.

Bashar bhai sahab, since I read some of your articles, I find a strong similarity between my dad's view and your view. Like you, my dad also thinks Muibur Rahman was a traitor and failed leader. Like you, my dad always expressed happiness about Mr. Rahman's killing. He too thought it was justified because he betrayed and broke Pakistan. Reading your articles, I gained some confidence that you may have a way to find out Ismael because you share similar view and ideology. Also my dad told me that Ismael was from a good family. His father was a diploma engineer and served in Saudi Arabia where he developed some business. I also read that you spent your early life in Saudi Arabia and there is a possibility that you may know Ismael's family, or eve may be related.

This is my first time writing in an open forum seeking help to see my mother. I could not find a better way. I felt a strong intuition that you and your family may belong to the same group as my dad and Ismael. Would you or any one of your friends please help this helpless lost person to find out my mother? I would remain ever grateful to you.

Kind regards,
Akhter Javed Khan,
Karachi, Pakistan.
E mail : khanakhter01@yahoo.com[/I][/B][url]http://bangladesh-web.com/view.php?hidDate=2007-08-23&hidType=OPT&hidRecord=0000000000000000169302[/url]

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Too powerful an article.

The sad results of self inflicted tyranny and resultant agony of a nation.

Nonetheless, my salute to the grandparents for their noble deed of accepting the child!

If someone can help, then they should. The unfortunate circumstance of his birth is not his fault. It is the fault of history.

My heart bleeds for him and many such others in a similar plight and even more unfortunate!

 

[joey]

Wait wait wait. You say Time is speaking of "absolute" data, and that you cannot conclude discrimination on "macro-economic" data. Can you explain what you mean by this? Time is speaking of data from urban centres and rural ones isn't it? It doesn't seem to give a source, but you've concluded the data must be irrelevant. Can you explain why you have come to this conclusion?

Time's article is not a economic survey at all by any means but it is trying to span all of the corners of a block and ends up in a khichdi type situation, It is pointing out Their problems and then his problems but is not at all going in depth analysis of the system. It is pointing out his point of view and their point of view but is not producing the actual verdict of courts (metaphorical in sense) in such pertaining matters. It is not a conclusive evidence of what we are Talking into.

The part of Time you quoted is from Census survey (read the article, it says it) which is never the measure of the macro-economy I'm talking of but talks in absolute volumetric sense. Census survey I believe happenes ever 5 years (have to check so a 2003 article..)

Again, you're assuming the people at TIMEasia don't know how to do a proper survey or have changed figures tosuit their content. Why would the people at TIMEasia select one Muslim from Bihar, and then take a more progressive Hindu from Delhi to compare to. Where is your evidence that TIMEasia have done this, or are you just assuming they've done this?

You did not got my point, I was not talking of Time Asia here at all This is getting like the exact article I posted since in percentage number of Muslims under jail is more than their population it means bias type, Please re-read the article which I posted.

Out of 100 population in Bihar lets say 30 are Muslims and 70 are Hindus.
Out of 100 population in Haryana lets say 10 are Muslims and 90 are Hindus.

You need to realise if the economic condition of those 30 muslims are bad the 10 Muslims whose economic conditions are good will be overshadowed in absolute data representation and would look like bias, but no please do macro econopmic analysis, In the state of Bihar out of that 30 Muslims if suffering you will find equally more number of Hindus suffering, similarly in Haryana more percentage of Hindus will likely to succeed like Muslims, it is just the crux of absoluteness that Bihar has more Muslims than haryana and has nothing to do with the type of issues your referring to.

Right. Primary school education is free. But Bharat doesn't have enough primary schools for all the children there. This much is pretty well known. So for the unfortunate Muslims who do not have the opportunity to send them to free primary schools, free madrassah education is the only other option. What about secondary education, is that free?

Yes Secondary, Higher Secondary education all free in government schools and if you have quota in my state you get money from government as stripend on monthly basis, your analogy of Not enough primary schools is correct, your analogy of sending kids to madrasa because primary school is not available is not correct. Based on my personal experience and a established fact even if primary school is available one who wants to send their kid to madrasa will send them, even if primary school is unavailable if they wants to go to a primary school they will send them by their will. Peoples from rural areas are too iliterate in the sense to differentiate the difference between the need of education so that they will send their kids to madrasas to get good education for the deemed lack of primary schools..

Give the link to your survey.

Here it is I have posted before, ET

Quotas need to be implemented, not just announced for publicity means. 3% out of a population of 13% is not implementing quotas.

Quotas are implemented, again how many percentage of Quotas you want for one single community? Do you realise how many community and their vote banks are ready for the same quotas and demand the same? I have told Quotas havent helped much at all and there is a big big reason why Apex (supreme) court have rejected and put on hold the new quota proposal, they are plain and simple discriminatory which will not yield true benefit for those in true need.

What absolute data are you talking about? I don't see how you're coming to your conclusions the TIMEasia survey is wrong.

Dude the time Asia article is not doing any survey to begin with, by absolute data I mean since out of 40 Muslims out of 200, 30 are bad economically off than other 10, It must be discrimination type, that is called absolute data which dont and cannot and never represents macro-economic sectors of India which I'm talked about.

The time talks of a completely different issue/tone than what we are discussing here, citing Gujrat as a example is not the right way to represent economic issue for 60 years and so on, Its talking purely off a political perspective, nor Gujrat was a one way affair including its aftermaths (refer to best bakery case), nor that was the only affair. the article speaks totally off a political point of view and not socio-economic point we are discussion, like when it says 'Hindus never gets convicted' et al is a clear proof of bias of the person who is saying (please refer to the above criminal trial/verdict record article I gave you), starts from 1860's deoband movement, to partition dude thats too much to discuss in one article, It makes looks any Hindu politician got free when the victim is a Muslim as a 'communal' matter (without going into the authenticness of the verdicts as it presents arguments from both sides) when there are hundreds such matters happening among hindus, Muslims themselves, Sibu soren case in very recent is one such or acquitance of Midhani in the Coimbatore Blast case is another. So if you want to discuss number of riots, Number of Muslims killed, Hindus killed, Supreme Courts verdicts, politics relating to it, I dont think this is the right thread to do it, because we are not talking of that which the article is speaking off nor I want to put up datas after datas based on such issues. We are discussion Economic issue of Muslims and what effects them, I have given you link to a very recent survey , I have retaliated Muslims may not be the most progressive group in India (some of the reasons I gave you including that of political leadership that they represent which varies as they are heterogenous) but the points you raised of that of state level discrimination to un-improvement of socio economics of them vis-a-vis Hindus being instutionalized is a absolutely wrong way of putting up analysis because you are simply doing volumetric analysis and analysing without knowing many issues and heterogenous extravanga differences of communities from place to place politically and socio-economically, if 5 Muslims are suffering for a policy and poverty so are 5 Hindus suffering paralelly, much like the article which spoke 80% of India lives under $1 per day, when it actually turned out to be 70% or so of the unorganised sector consumes calorific value of around less than $2 per day.

 

[salman nedian]

We have many tragedies like one posted by AKZaman.3 lacs Bihari muslims are living in Bangladesh in very bad condition.this forum must be used to make an effort to increase the cooperation b/w two Muslim Countries so that the victams of those tragedies could get some relief.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The Biharis made a mistake by backing the wrong side.

The wrong side does not want to set it right.

It serves the wrong side and the right side to let status quo let these namak harams ( they were eating in BD) to realise what is being loyal to the salt!

Do forgive me, but I hate traitors.

Even if a Pakistani sold of his country for India, I would hate him!

 

[salman nedian]

The Biharis made a mistake by backing the wrong side.

The wrong side does not want to set it right.

It serves the wrong side and the right side to let status quo let these namak harams ( they were eating in BD) to realise what is being loyal to the salt!

Do forgive me, but I hate traitors.

Even if a Pakistani sold of his country for India, I would hate him!

This is invalid point at that time BD was East Pakistan and Biharis did not faught with Bengalis they faught with those who wanted to break Pakistan and not all the Bengalis wanted that infact Bengalis wanted Provincial autonomy you can see that Bengalis in this forum have a soft corner for Pakistan why? b/c they are the makers of Pakistan along with us (Pakistanis) what had hapened was due to some misunderstandings Mukti Bahini killed many Bengalis b/c they ere loyal to Pakistan so they are "Namak Harams"? no. Pakistan was their Country and also Biharis Country.


I would suggest you not to use wrong language against them they are the Heroes of Pakistan.

 

[haviZsultan]

Well done! Thats what i'm talking about... a reply!

Dimension,

Noticed how many Moslems are in the forefront these days compared to the earlier times?


Sportsmen and women and filmstars are the best for mass appeal to change the mindset. Who is leading out there? One does not have to be a bull in a china shop!

Heard of the Haneef's case where he was declared a terrorist by the Australian govt. Observed the Indian reaction there?

Yeah, but the majority of muslims in india do not have those sort of opportunities... Sharukh khan and Sania mirza and Kalam are just figureheads... they are just there to catch attention so that middle-class people see that muslims are doing really well although most of them are not! Change mindset? All a person needs to do is find the next begger and ask him his religion and that mindset will come crashing down! Tell me are their more Shahrukh Khans <toppers> or more Muslim beggers in India? Why live in a world of make-believe...

Yeah i agree some muslims manage to become very rich and powerful but how are most of the muslims in india being treated? How does the majority look towards muslims in India? Even you muslim dudes discuss the same things within the safety of your homes and amongst other muslims. You guys know that your community is discriminated against and constantly harrassed though for some reason you don't want to admit it!

Why don't you want to admit that this is all true? Are you afraid of something? Are you afraid of loosing the tiger-support? Oh, maybe you guys are afraid of the indian secret police... I was wondering if they are in your house right now which makes you not want to admit these things... is the secret police going to torture you if you say that its true?

India is not the same place as what it was in 1947.

And, oh yes, I forgot.....
Rome was not built in one day!

Read the Sunni Shia divide thread on this forum. Except for Blain, there is a whole lot of realism dawning!

Let reality dawn and delusions fade in all aspects of life!

Oh, definately not! After 1947 it was rage against the Pakistani time...
Are you telling me that the majority doesn't bully muslims anymore and u guys are like buddies now? Then what about the riots that keep happening in your country all the time between hindus and muslims? What about the armies treatment of the only muslim dominated area, Kashmir? What about the constant discrimination muslims suffer? What about the muslim families in India (unlike you) who admit that they are treated badly by the Hindu majority and What about all those muslims so sick and tired of the discrimination that they want a Pakistani passport?

No matter how much you deny it the attitudes have not changed! The hatred of muslims is still there!!! There are many people in your country that would ensure (and are ensuring) that you guys do not get to the top but you are totally blinded by your government and the media.

You are trying to make Rome? Would you compare the pollution, discrimination, corruption and crime in India to "Rome" the most advanced civilization in history. Jeez, Romans might commit suicide when they hear of this! Oh, you are trying to tell me that India is the Roman Empire and all those not Indian are "barbarians"? First India is no where near to becoming rome even in the distant future and second you are hurting our sentiments by calling us "barbarians"

Realism... ! Blain is a Pakistani... Are you trying to tell me Pakistanis do not look "realistic"? Are you trying to tell me that Pakistanis are all clones or are made of something else other than what you are made of!

Yeah, let reality dawn and let people see the truth behind the lies and the deciet and the "dodging"... however, someone would definately have to get out of the sterilized operation theatre for the "delusions to fade"...

In this very forum when it was PFF, there was a silly debate whether Jinnah was a Shia or a Sunni. All forgot that whatever he may have been, his contribution to Moslems was what was important. The trouble is that one loves to wallow in the irrelevant and loses the sight of the big picture. Little battles to be won, even if the war is lost! What logic! Cut the nose to spite the face! Missing the wood for the trees!

Here, there are think tanks who blame Bengalis and India for breaking up Pakistan. Will it change history? It won't. And yet look at the US. It runs on merrily treading on all corns conceivable. And yet everyone craves for that Green Card! Even those who think that the US is the Great White Satan. What is the lure? The lure is that it is a very successful country that is rich, powerful and attractive! So, if we are not rich, powerful and attractive, then why blame people who do not wish to hang around.

True, it does'nt matter if he was shia or sunni, what matters is his contribution to Islam and his contribution in ending the suffering and misery of muslims who were constantly terrorized and discriminated against in India... another rare ocassion when you have said something useful!

Yes! another one! let me write this... "cut the nose to spite the face" and "missing the wood for the trees"... Have you been spending too much time with witches, wizards and sorcerors? Where do you get all this from?

Oh, do they now... well in India there are many people that blame pathetic, fund-starved organizations like lashker-e-taiba <yeah L.E.T was not responsible!, there is even a documentary detailing the truth!> for events that have been organized by local groups and blame Pakistan whenever anything in their country goes wrong! Anyway that means that we are even then! No one blames our Bengali brothers... this is between India and Pakistan not Bengaladesh... and don't start the "noble india crap" because we all know the true purposes for Indias joining the war!

True, we all have the choice to strive for greatness or be crushed and America has truely attained greatness no matter how foolish they are! The lesson we should learn here is that absolute fools can also attain greatness so if you are foolish you have actually been gifted by God ... and indian muslims (according to salim) never go to america because they are with taliban and are anti-american!

Doctor, heal thyself is the only answer. Introspection.

Before some goes on the Bharat this and Bharat that, I would add that even India has to face destiny as it comes! No crying over spilt milk!

Oh another one!... Okay so if the docter has an accident and breaks his arms and legs he should still be the one healing himself... okay!

Bharat this? Bharat that? Nope, No one is saying Bharat this, Bharat that... no one criticises the jungle here! Never! If anyone picks on Bharat I will kill him with my grandfathers sword!

Spilt milk? So thats all it was? Thousands died just because someone spilled milk... so thats why India was partitioned, because of "spilt milk"?... I feel so sorry for India because it lost Pakistan over spilled milk... Woah, you guys should ban milk then because whenever someone will spill milk another Pakistan will be created!...

Face destiny? Woah... Anyone ever heard about "The Chronicles of India?"

Goodbye! Please reply!

 

[salman nedian]

Oh another one!... Okay so if the docter has an accident and breaks his arms and legs he should still be the one healing himself... okay!

Bharat this? Bharat that? Nope, No one is saying Bharat this, Bharat that... no one criticises the jungle here! Never! If anyone picks on Bharat I will kill him with my grandfathers sword!

Spilt milk? So thats all it was? Thousands died just because someone spilled milk... so thats why India was partitioned, because of "spilt milk"?... I feel so sorry for India because it lost Pakistan over spilled milk... Woah, you guys should ban milk then because whenever someone will spill milk another Pakistan will be created!...

Face destiny? Woah... Anyone ever heard about "The Chronicles of India?"

India Exposed!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Dimension,

What can one answer when the person is beyond logic.

Example: Sharukh Khan, Sania Mirza and Abdul Kalam are figureheads.

You insult them.

Each one has achieved these starry heights by their own talent.

If there was discrimination, then Sharukh would not have toppled the unchallengeable Amitabh Bacchan. After all, in films, it is the box office that determines who is the Head Honcho. And the box office is dependent on the fans. And the fans as per your statistics is 80&#37; Hindus!

Sania Mirza is a tennis player, in case you did not know. Her talent in tennis cannot under any circumstances be assisted by unseen Hindu hands playing for her and making her win. It is her own hands that smashes the tennis ball and gives her the world rankings, which no Indian woman has managed to come near about! And the world ranking is not decided by the 80% Hindu population. It is decided by the World Tennis and assured place is that of one's opwn doing and in this case, it is of Sania Mirza'a and no one elses! So, if she is a figure to be acknowledged, it is because of her own talents and nobody else's.

Abdul Kalam is a scientist and not a politician. He has made his mark in both fields on his own. As the President, while the political parties fought shy to give him a second term, the public which includes your 80% Hindu, voted that he is the Best President. Do you know why Kalam is not there for the second term and the people love him? The political parties are afraid of him. He has taken very difficult political decisions without fear or favour and without any partisan attitude. And he was a NDA nominee, which had BJP as its head! He sorted out all political parties and their shenanigans! He was no figurehead. Yes, he was an immense figure of national acclaim and was also a Head of India!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Oh another one!... Okay so if the docter has an accident and breaks his arms and legs he should still be the one healing himself... okay!

Bharat this? Bharat that? Nope, No one is saying Bharat this, Bharat that... no one criticises the jungle here! Never! If anyone picks on Bharat I will kill him with my grandfathers sword!

Spilt milk? So thats all it was? Thousands died just because someone spilled milk... so thats why India was partitioned, because of "spilt milk"?... I feel so sorry for India because it lost Pakistan over spilled milk... Woah, you guys should ban milk then because whenever someone will spill milk another Pakistan will be created!...

Face destiny? Woah... Anyone ever heard about "The Chronicles of India?"

Goodbye! Please reply!

Rather juvenile.

Hardly worth debate!

And surprising that Salman N found it so illuminating!

Does speak volumes!

 

[haviZsultan]

Dimension,

What can one answer when the person is beyond logic.

Example: Sharukh Khan, Sania Mirza and Abdul Kalam are figureheads.

You insult them.

Each one has achieved these starry heights by their own talent.

If there was discrimination, then Sharukh would not have toppled the unchallengeable Amitabh Bacchan. After all, in films, it is the box office that determines who is the Head Honcho. And the box office is dependent on the fans. And the fans as per your statistics is 80&#37; Hindus!

Sania Mirza is a tennis player, in case you did not know. Her talent in tennis cannot under any circumstances be assisted by unseen Hindu hands playing for her and making her win. It is her own hands that smashes the tennis ball and gives her the world rankings, which no Indian woman has managed to come near about! And the world ranking is not decided by the 80% Hindu population. It is decided by the World Tennis and assured place is that of one's opwn doing and in this case, it is of Sania Mirza'a and no one elses! So, if she is a figure to be acknowledged, it is because of her own talents and nobody else's.

Abdul Kalam is a scientist and not a politician. He has made his mark in both fields on his own. As the President, while the political parties fought shy to give him a second term, the public which includes your 80% Hindu, voted that he is the Best President. Do you know why Kalam is not there for the second term and the people love him? The political parties are afraid of him. He has taken very difficult political decisions without fear or favour and without any partisan attitude. And he was a NDA nominee, which had BJP as its head! He sorted out all political parties and their shenanigans! He was no figurehead. Yes, he was an immense figure of national acclaim and was also a Head of India!

Insult them... naah u see i won't insult Sania Mirza... we all loVe her you see... the rest i can insult all day!

Well why don't you ask these people how much difficulty they had reaching the point they are now at and if they never suffered bias and descrimination... Sania initially when she started said there was discrimination by her selectors and they were unwilling to select her. Kalam definately suffered bias cauz he was a muslim going into politics! True, they have reached there because they have great talent which the haters cannot deny... but ask them how many times people wanted to put them down and ensure they did not get to the top? The point is there is discrimination in India against muslims, not how some muslim people seem to be in the limelight!

In truth what difference is this making to the ordinary muslims? Are they getting out of their misery just because Shahrukh Khan got to the top and became so famous or Sania Mirza won a tennis match! Look around you and notice the wide-ranging proverty the muslims in India suffer and find out what anyone is doing to help them.

Look there are many muslims in India even today that do believe there is descrimination against their society! Some people in my family are saying that they made a mistake by not going to Pakistan during the partition they are so sick of the discrimination and hatred here. Well, what about all those who lose family to rioting etc. Even most of my Indian muslim friends say the same thing, that there is discrimination in india and the muslims are a suppressed people in India. Almost all of them believe that Kashmir should be freed but you are the only India-Crazed Muslim Fanatic I have seen.Why do you want to unneccessarily deny everything I say??? Are you afraid to let your tiger freinds down or is the Secret Police still after you?

I don't understand why you don't want to admit this... this is what most indian muslims think and say when they are with each other. Maybe you go happy-feet when you see Pakistanis... "no evrything is okay, no problem here, nothing!" Do we always have that kind of affect on you? Do you hate us so much that you think we are sub-human or monsters or something?... You did tell me we did not look "realistic" ... Well I know that extreme fear and hatred can lead to illusion so there is no problem admitting your hatred of Pakistanis here... It is also no problem to admit that you are seeing Pakistanis around you... and you are having hallucinations because you hate them so much and can't do anything to hurt them(If you say it I will understand completely!)... Yeah, i understand its because of the rage and agony you felt when you lost Pakistan... i don't blame you... I blame your country...

So lets say if your house is burning, your family being killed in front of your eyes would you say the same thing? Will you still tell me there is no problem and nothing is wrong? Well all those who have suffered know how it is like... all those who have lost their loved ones because of the hatred don't really think so! And there are still these kind of muslims moving from India to Pakistan because they are constantly being harrased in India! Why don't you ask the Pakistan Nationalists and Sufferers Witness in India and such groups how many indian muslims they helped get Pakistani passports for between 2004-2006? Yeah right! No discrimination none at all! The man-eating tiger is always right no matter whatever else statistics prove! Well since I am here now you are not going to escape the truth!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I look around India.

I see poverty.

I see riches.

I see bicycles.

I see Mercedez.

I see honesty,

I see downright thievery.

I see love.

I see hate.

But my eyes only sees India in all its hues.

Just India!

Here in PFF (now PDF [wonder where the actual PDF went?!]), I see only friends and, of course, some very interesting characters who see only just beyond their nose!