Cousin marriages (we need to talk about this)

[Blue Marlin]

I read somewhere that all humans are at least 50th cousins of each other. Did I just change the way u see ur spouse/gf?

you've been reading to much you should get out more and get a lady friend whos's not your cousin.

 

[war&peace]

Girls being off limits to us means that some of us take out our frustration by being gay and lesbian. Now no matter how sick we think this is as I do as I have had problems with a gay bastards in Canada who don't even tell you they are gay when they befriend you, the point is that our society creates these people by making women off limits to men and men off limits to women.

What the heck are you talking about? Pakistan has the lowest numbers of gays in the entire world and most of the gays are from the western world especially in the most libtard countries..

 

[Cookie Monster]

you've been reading to much you should get out more and get a lady friend whos's not your cousin.

that shouldn't be a problem here in US...oh wait she'll still be at least my 50th cousin lol

 

[Zarvan]

Hi guys.

So yeah. I know. That topic. A lot of people are very sensitive about it, and do not appreciate the terms associated with it, but we need to have this conversation. It concerns not just Pakistan, but many other countries within the region too such as Iran, India, Afghanistan and Bangladesh (it also concerns the Arabs too). Here's a map showing it's prevalence throughout the region:

Many of you out there such as @Horus believe that there is nothing wrong with marrying your cousin, others such as @abcxyz0000 vehemently condemn the practice (or at least that's what previous threads on the topic give the impression of). Gentlemen, we are here to reach a conclusion based on the facts we have readily available. I will present my case, and I encourage others to do the same within this thread. Now, onto the discussion.

I'm going to structure this by busting some common myths in depth, and then reaching my own conclusion to share with you, here I go:

1. Marrying your cousin is incest

Wrong, whilst different cultures might treat it as incest it is not actually incest. The definition if incest is "having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild". Having a relationship with your cousin does not fall into this category and genetically speaking they are nowhere near as genetically similar to you as other family members are as these statistics clearly demonstrate:

Heck, even these statistics are the median/upper boundaries. First cousins can often share only 7% of their genetic make up with you. So it's far from incest.

The line only gets blurred when you talk about inbreeding, as the definition for that is to "breed from closely related people or animals, especially over many generations". Some might consider cousins to be closely related, others not so much. Compared to marrying your other relatives, marrying your cousin is nowhere near as bad (especially when you get into third cousin territory). Also, the definition applies specific emphasis on the "over many generations" bit (more on that later). So even if you consider cousins as closely related, it's not really inbreeding unless done over many generations.

Also, please keep in mind that terms such as inbreeding and incest are often used as derogatory terms so even if you mean no offence, it will still make people upset or angry so please refrain from such language. That goes for all types of derogatory slurs in general.

2. Having children with your cousin produces horribly mutated beings

No. No it does not. The percentage risk of the child having any defect of any sort (including mild ones such as poor hearing) is roughly the same as that of a child produced by a 40 year old women. Are you going to tell me 40 year old women usually produce horribly mutated babies? No, because that's not the case. Don't believe me? Take a look at what the statistics say:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...s-getting-married-scientists-say-1210072.html

https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=facts

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/02/people-stop-thinking-appropriate-cousins-marry/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Genetics

Even if you go by the argument of "an increase in risk is still an increase in risk", by that logic you should only marry people of completely different race for the most genetic diversity.

These sources do also bring up that infamous Pakistani Briton statistic, and explains it. In those cases, the cousins were mostly double cousins or cross/parallel cousins. In other words, these people had this practice going on for generations. So the risk for these guys would obviously be much higher, which is why they yielded many more disabilities. It's also important to take note that over 50% of Pakistani Britons are married to their cousins. The vast majority of them obviously do not produce children which are horribly disabled, as the British birth defect rate is at 2%:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...in-50-babies-has-a-birth-defect-research.html

So it's clear that even the ones who continue the practice over generations, they do not always produce horribly disabled children (but the risk is significantly higher).

However, there's one topic that's a bit more controversial. IQ. There are many statistics showing children whose parents are cousins have low IQ's, such as this one:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/07/cousin-marriage-can-reduce-i-q-a-lot/#.WIuUvFN97IU

But fear not, because most of these tests have yielded contradictory results and the conditions for the tests have not exactly been fair. For example, it's unknown as to whether or not the students are the product of many generations of cousin marriage, or it's just their parents who chose to do so. Given that cousin marriage is legal throughout most of the world (including Western countries such as the UK), I highly doubt it would honestly affect IQ's. The students who score lower also tend to come from less economically stable backgrounds, which can affect IQ:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Genetics_and_environment

Not to mention IQ's do not predict how successful you will become in life. You can have a high IQ and still fail school, it's your effort which really matters. I think it's also fair to mention that I have known many people whose parents are cousins and have perfectly fine (some even superior) IQ's. If IQ's were really affected by cousin marriage, then Pakistan should have the lowest IQ worldwide due to it having the highest rate of cousin marriage worldwide, but it doesn't even come close.

Now, what about this statistic?

http://www.nairaland.com/1448664/muslim-countries-found-highest-rates

The above source clearly shows the countries with high rates of cousin marriage have high rates of birth defects. In fact, all these countries (with the exception of Benin) have high rates of cousin marriages. First of all, whilst high, Sudan (which tops the list) still has about 8% of it's population with birth defects. That's pretty high, but as with all the other negative statistics on cousin marriages, this one is because of people engaging in the activity for numerous generations. This is clearly evident because if it was purely based in every type of cousin marriage, Pakistan should come out on top for birth defects, but that's not the case (we aren't even in the top 10). Secondly, 8% is far from majority.

Conclusion:

Cousin marriage is fine so long as it is not done over numerous generations. What should be regarded as numerous is up for debate, not enough research has been done to conclude at which point the line should be drawn, but you should steer away from the practice if anyone in your recent family history has engaged in the act, and when I say recent I mean if anyone later than your great great great grandfather married their cousin, it's a no-no for you unless some compatibility tests prove otherwise (and they have to be from a reliable hospital). This has to be followed so we can ensure people are born healthy and without problems, whilst still being fair to cultural norms among certain people.

@Hassan Guy @Mugwop @Oscar @Luffy 500 @waz @Kaptaan @Zaki @Nilgiri @SirHatesALot @nair @Windjammer @war&peace @PAKISTANFOREVER @OrionHunter @LA se Karachi @Doordie @Clutch @Chauvinist @Moonlight @Devil Soul @Tipu7 @WebMaster

Cousin Marriages are fine until you don't start doing it after one Generation after another and than another and so on. You should also do marriages outside your families. In RASOOL SAW time there were very few cousin marriages mostly were outside family.

To even consider cousin marriages taboo (which cause a lot of problems genetically and can be forced marriages too without asking once for the opinion of the daughter in some families) we first need to end our male and female exclusive tendencies. Thats what creates the scourge known as gay and lesbian people and this is very common in Pakistan and our neighbor Afghanistan has it publically where bachay bazi is widespread.

Girls being off limits to us means that some of us take out our frustration by being gay and lesbian. Now no matter how sick we think this is as I do as I have had problems with a gay bastards in Canada who don't even tell you they are gay when they befriend you, the point is that our society creates these people by making women off limits to men and men off limits to women.

Now I can think of your thoughts going off to sex as soon as I say off limits but there can be a respectable relationship too. We can learn from each other and eventually love each other.

The first thing that needs to be done is an increase in the mingling of sexes. We should be taught from the start that girl-boy relationships are normal. Perfectly okay. Our parents and other older people often scold us for talking too much with girls but this is a better setup. We can get to know each others ways, habits, thinking and ideology before we marry.

I personally do not believe in the institution of arranged marriage.

Personally I fell for a girl on this very site among my many love interests in a past life. Liked her very much but did not contact her after I fell sick and left Canada. I think we can match our mentalities and understand each other better in a marriage where love is a factor. In this time and age most boys who can't find any girl are promoters of arranged marriage to deal with their own weaknesses.

The society has to promote the mingling of male and female. Depriving our children with the opportunity to fall in love is a crime in my eyes.


In western culture cousin marriages are usually frowned upon. But in Pakistan it is extremely common. See it as a cultural dissimilarity between us. The superior idea is clearly to avoid child and cousin marriages. I have to note our women in illiterate households can be very young when married and this is a far greater problem than cousin marriages. Both are bad though.

Sorry free mixing not allowed and it would never allowed to please liberals and other fools. On the other hand Muslims need to start early marriages. As girls and boys reach age of 20 their parents should get them married I even know really rich parents who delay there children marriages for no reason and when children end up doing some sort of crap they are crying. As for cousin marriages they are allowed in Islam but ALLAH encourages Nikah which you can do with cousion or outside family doesn't matter.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Girls being off limits to us means that some of us take out our frustration by being gay and lesbian. Now no matter how sick we think this is as I do as I have had problems with a gay bastards in Canada who don't even tell you they are gay when they befriend you, the point is that our society creates these people by making women off limits to men and men off limits to women.

I don't think that's how it works. One does not simply turn gay and start hooking up with a dude simply bcuz he couldn't get with a girl.

 

[waz]

Cousin marriage is the only formula for some folks to have a hot spouse. no offense.

LOL!!!!!!!!!! Oh I've seen some right funny ones in my time. Usually it's a guy who looks like an extra (dead victim) from the Friday the 13th films and a good looking lady.

 

[somebozo]

What the heck are you talking about? Pakistan has the lowest numbers of gays in the entire world and most of the gays are from the western world especially in the most libtard countries..

Who told you this fairly?
If anywhere i have see homosexuality rampant is Pakistan..

 

[Samurai_assassin]

Who told you this fairly?
If anywhere i have see homosexuality rampant is Pakistan..

Gay people are found in every corner of the world including the ultra conservative nations such as Iran Saudi Arabia Israel

 

[.]

I read it give cancer

On a more serious note @somebozo Boy aren't you the worst poster of PDF.

What the heck are you talking about? Pakistan has the lowest numbers of gays in the entire world and most of the gays are from the western world especially in the most libtard countries..

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Cousin Marriage is a disgusting practice, we need to illegalize it - I don't care what the Mullahs say. It has led to genetic/physical/mental degradation over the generations; we reverse this as Turkey has, but we'd need to stop the practice immediately.

I've read a dawn article informing how the average height decreased from 5'8/5'9 to 5'5.7.

While countries such as Turkey have banned this practice and reversed its effects.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...-finds.aspx?pageID=238&nID=7164&NewsCatID=339

 

[313baberali]

One question . who is not gonna marry some1 if he/She likes some1 .the reason were given when u not want to do it.and reasons were also give when you want to .so human nature will never change

 

[Krishnan]

Hi guys.

So yeah. I know. That topic. A lot of people are very sensitive about it, and do not appreciate the terms associated with it, but we need to have this conversation. It concerns not just Pakistan, but many other countries within the region too such as Iran, India, Afghanistan and Bangladesh (it also concerns the Arabs too). Here's a map showing it's prevalence throughout the region:

Many of you out there such as @Horus believe that there is nothing wrong with marrying your cousin, others such as @abcxyz0000 vehemently condemn the practice (or at least that's what previous threads on the topic give the impression of). Gentlemen, we are here to reach a conclusion based on the facts we have readily available. I will present my case, and I encourage others to do the same within this thread. Now, onto the discussion.

I'm going to structure this by busting some common myths in depth, and then reaching my own conclusion to share with you, here I go:

1. Marrying your cousin is incest

Wrong, whilst different cultures might treat it as incest it is not actually incest. The definition if incest is "having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild". Having a relationship with your cousin does not fall into this category and genetically speaking they are nowhere near as genetically similar to you as other family members are as these statistics clearly demonstrate:

Heck, even these statistics are the median/upper boundaries. First cousins can often share only 7% of their genetic make up with you. So it's far from incest.

The line only gets blurred when you talk about inbreeding, as the definition for that is to "breed from closely related people or animals, especially over many generations". Some might consider cousins to be closely related, others not so much. Compared to marrying your other relatives, marrying your cousin is nowhere near as bad (especially when you get into third cousin territory). Also, the definition applies specific emphasis on the "over many generations" bit (more on that later). So even if you consider cousins as closely related, it's not really inbreeding unless done over many generations.

Also, please keep in mind that terms such as inbreeding and incest are often used as derogatory terms so even if you mean no offence, it will still make people upset or angry so please refrain from such language. That goes for all types of derogatory slurs in general.

2. Having children with your cousin produces horribly mutated beings

No. No it does not. The percentage risk of the child having any defect of any sort (including mild ones such as poor hearing) is roughly the same as that of a child produced by a 40 year old women. Are you going to tell me 40 year old women usually produce horribly mutated babies? No, because that's not the case. Don't believe me? Take a look at what the statistics say:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...s-getting-married-scientists-say-1210072.html

https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=facts

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/02/people-stop-thinking-appropriate-cousins-marry/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage#Genetics

Even if you go by the argument of "an increase in risk is still an increase in risk", by that logic you should only marry people of completely different race for the most genetic diversity.

These sources do also bring up that infamous Pakistani Briton statistic, and explains it. In those cases, the cousins were mostly double cousins or cross/parallel cousins. In other words, these people had this practice going on for generations. So the risk for these guys would obviously be much higher, which is why they yielded many more disabilities. It's also important to take note that over 50% of Pakistani Britons are married to their cousins. The vast majority of them obviously do not produce children which are horribly disabled, as the British birth defect rate is at 2%:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...in-50-babies-has-a-birth-defect-research.html

So it's clear that even the ones who continue the practice over generations, they do not always produce horribly disabled children (but the risk is significantly higher).

However, there's one topic that's a bit more controversial. IQ. There are many statistics showing children whose parents are cousins have low IQ's, such as this one:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/07/cousin-marriage-can-reduce-i-q-a-lot/#.WIuUvFN97IU

But fear not, because most of these tests have yielded contradictory results and the conditions for the tests have not exactly been fair. For example, it's unknown as to whether or not the students are the product of many generations of cousin marriage, or it's just their parents who chose to do so. Given that cousin marriage is legal throughout most of the world (including Western countries such as the UK), I highly doubt it would honestly affect IQ's. The students who score lower also tend to come from less economically stable backgrounds, which can affect IQ:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Genetics_and_environment

Not to mention IQ's do not predict how successful you will become in life. You can have a high IQ and still fail school, it's your effort which really matters. I think it's also fair to mention that I have known many people whose parents are cousins and have perfectly fine (some even superior) IQ's. If IQ's were really affected by cousin marriage, then Pakistan should have the lowest IQ worldwide due to it having the highest rate of cousin marriage worldwide, but it doesn't even come close.

Now, what about this statistic?

http://www.nairaland.com/1448664/muslim-countries-found-highest-rates

The above source clearly shows the countries with high rates of cousin marriage have high rates of birth defects. In fact, all these countries (with the exception of Benin) have high rates of cousin marriages. First of all, whilst high, Sudan (which tops the list) still has about 8% of it's population with birth defects. That's pretty high, but as with all the other negative statistics on cousin marriages, this one is because of people engaging in the activity for numerous generations. This is clearly evident because if it was purely based in every type of cousin marriage, Pakistan should come out on top for birth defects, but that's not the case (we aren't even in the top 10). Secondly, 8% is far from majority.

Conclusion:

Cousin marriage is fine so long as it is not done over numerous generations. What should be regarded as numerous is up for debate, not enough research has been done to conclude at which point the line should be drawn, but you should steer away from the practice if anyone in your recent family history has engaged in the act, and when I say recent I mean if anyone later than your great great great grandfather married their cousin, it's a no-no for you unless some compatibility tests prove otherwise (and they have to be from a reliable hospital). This has to be followed so we can ensure people are born healthy and without problems, whilst still being fair to cultural norms among certain people.

@Hassan Guy @Mugwop @Oscar @Luffy 500 @waz @Kaptaan @Zaki @Nilgiri @SirHatesALot @nair @Windjammer @war&peace @PAKISTANFOREVER @OrionHunter @LA se Karachi @Doordie @Clutch @Chauvinist @Moonlight @Devil Soul @Tipu7 @WebMaster

You can't be serious?? I hope you're not serious!

This is wrong on so many levels.

Number one, why would you even want to marry your cousin? That's freaking disgusting. How can anyone not feel like their cousins are like a sibling? And if you can't then there's something wrong with you.

Now coming to the part about the "slight" increase in likelihood of defects resulting from such a relationship, shouldn't that be a reason to not engage in such a thing because any risk is a bad risk, whether it's likelihood is significant or insignificant.

And yes, marry outside of your race if you have to, there's nothing wrong with interracial marriages unless you're a racist.

 

[Krishnan]

Now no matter how sick we think this is as I do as I have had problems with a gay bastards in Canada who don't even tell you they are gay when they befriend you,

[emoji38] mind sharing the entire experience with us?

To even consider cousin marriages taboo (which cause a lot of problems genetically and can be forced marriages too without asking once for the opinion of the daughter in some families) we first need to end our male and female exclusive tendencies. Thats what creates the scourge known as gay and lesbian people and this is very common in Pakistan and our neighbor Afghanistan has it publically where bachay bazi is widespread.

Girls being off limits to us means that some of us take out our frustration by being gay and lesbian. Now no matter how sick we think this is as I do as I have had problems with a gay bastards in Canada who don't even tell you they are gay when they befriend you, the point is that our society creates these people by making women off limits to men and men off limits to women.

Now I can think of your thoughts going off to sex as soon as I say off limits but there can be a respectable relationship too. We can learn from each other and eventually love each other.

The first thing that needs to be done is an increase in the mingling of sexes. We should be taught from the start that girl-boy relationships are normal. Perfectly okay. Our parents and other older people often scold us for talking too much with girls but this is a better setup. We can get to know each others ways, habits, thinking and ideology before we marry.

I personally do not believe in the institution of arranged marriage.

Personally I fell for a girl on this very site among my many love interests in a past life. Liked her very much but did not contact her after I fell sick and left Canada. I think we can match our mentalities and understand each other better in a marriage where love is a factor. In this time and age most boys who can't find any girl are promoters of arranged marriage to deal with their own weaknesses.

The society has to promote the mingling of male and female. Depriving our children with the opportunity to fall in love is a crime in my eyes.


In western culture cousin marriages are usually frowned upon. But in Pakistan it is extremely common. See it as a cultural dissimilarity between us. The superior idea is clearly to avoid child and cousin marriages. I have to note our women in illiterate households can be very young when married and this is a far greater problem than cousin marriages. Both are bad though.

But yeah I definitely agree that boys and girls should be allowed to intermix from a very young age and have pre-marital sexual relationships as this will help to develop their understanding of the opposite sex and what their preferences are.

Pakistan is in need of its own sexual revolution.

 

[fitpOsitive]

No, if its not very necessary.

 

[friendly_troll96]

Sorry, I don't want to talk!!!