Counter-MMRCA Strategy of PAF

[Najam Khan]

Thanks for the heads up! A very exhaustive and excellent piece of info!

However, I would like to add that the author has not mentioned the 250 - 300 fifth generation Sukhoi T-50s that would be inducted into the IAF by 2016-17. That would be a game changer. I wonder what PAF's strategy would then be for countering the threat? I believe that the PAF would probably induct 3-4 squadrons of the Chinese JF 17 or even the J-20, though not before 2020.
!

Firstly its beyond the scope of article.

Secondly both Russia and China are a long way from completing all necessary testing on their 5th gen aircraft. They both may not induct them before 2018. Getting initial and then final operational clearance would be another debate. Then comes the point of sales to other countries.

Oh BTW, you answered your question yourself

---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 PM ----------

Very nice article - stated ground realities - Pakistan will get 150 JF 17 by 2020. Some members here were confident pakistan will get 150 JF 17 by 2015 and then order another 100-150.

Well its always better to visualize things in a realistic way. PAF will make sure the 150 number will be met before 2020...IF need arise, more can be ordered directly from China. But that IF would be in an exceptional scenario.

What is the progress of PAF in electronic warfare front?

EWTTR has been setup at Sargodha, which enhances the EW training of pilots. ECM Falcons are given new life. EW weapons like Mar-1, AN/ALQ-211 V9, KJ-300G etc. are either inducted or undergoing integration.

 

[nomi007]

1st of all
pak-fa still is in testing field and Russian have poor record of completing task at time
i think pak-fa never enter before 2020
on the other hand Chinese have good reputation of completing projects at time
our airchief has said in dubai airshow that jf-17bk-2 enter production in 2012
2nd i think many indian journolist critise mmrca selection
1st objection is that
rafael mean more 40yrs of span 40yrs mean rafel will serve iaf till 2058
when i hope we will be using 7 gen
see this on ndtv
What does the Rafale deal mean for the Indian Air Force-

 

[Irfan Baloch]

1st of all
pak-fa still is in testing field and Russian have poor record of completing task at time
i think pak-fa never enter before 2020
on the other hand Chinese have good reputation of completing projects at time
our airchief has said in dubai airshow that jf-17bk-2 enter production in 2012
2nd i think many indian journolist critise mmrca selection
1st objection is that
rafael mean more 40yrs of span 40yrs mean rafel will serve iaf till 2058
when i hope we will be using 7 gen
see this on ndtv
What does the Rafale deal mean for the Indian Air Force-

the first point is not the topic of discussion and your statement is just your opinion. Russians are just fine and the only force that give the American NeoCons sleepless nights. rest assured when their 5th gen plane does come out of the testing phase it will create a lot of panic over the globe.

as far as the Indian journalists are concerned, they dont know jack. the Indian government and the air force have been very systematic, patience and methodical in their selection. Rafale is very powerful platform with a lot of promise for the future.

I dont agree with your prediction of the future generations. in next decade or so there maybe more emphasis on unmanned platforms but to completely replace an onboard human pilot might take a while (just my assumption based on what I have read and seen) the advent of the aircraft tech is no longer a steep curve so I doubt we will be seeing phasers and anti matter mines anytime soon. there are already huge compromises made to make a plane stealthy and what might be totally invisible now is seen like a beacon light tomorrow ("sorry we didnt know that your plane was invisible" comment comes to mind).

what I am saying regarding Rafale is, there are no compromises, it doesnt have to be prepped for stupid number of hours like F-22 and can has the poll position in the world top fighter air crafts. too bad our pilots might be facing it one day. we need more than Indian journalists to counter this beast.

 

[wild_fire1979]

I dont agree with your prediction of the future generations. in next decade or so there maybe more emphasis on unmanned platforms but to completely replace an onboard human pilot might take a while (just my assumption based on what I have read and seen) the advent of the aircraft tech is no longer a steep curve so I doubt we will be seeing phasers and anti matter mines anytime soon. there are already huge compromises made to make a plane stealthy and what might be totally invisible now is seen like a beacon light tomorrow ("sorry we didnt know that your plane was invisible" comment comes to mind).

The pilot will not be replaced soon, but they will not be in the flying machine that is for sure... trust me!

These will be remotely piloted drones which will be semi autonomous. They will be actively guided but will have the capability to take over in case the uplink is lost or jammed.

This will also eliminate the 9G+ - limit imposed by the human being in the machine. So super agile planes with virtually no AOA restrictions and a crazy turn rate at both high and low speed.

The system will not only be flying but also learning so experience and learning will not be lost but in fact analysed and distributed among drones in real time. So that flying strategy of the enemy can be analysed in real time and a counter strategy evolved without any human intervention

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The pilot will not be replaced soon, but they will not be in the flying machine that is for sure... trust me!

These will be remotely piloted drones which will be semi autonomous. They will be actively guided but will have the capability to take over in case the uplink is lost or jammed.

This will also eliminate the 9G+ - limit imposed by the human being in the machine. So super agile planes with virtually no AOA restrictions and a crazy turn rate at both high and low speed.

The system will not only be flying but also learning so experience and learning will not be lost but in fact analysed and distributed among drones in real time. So that flying strategy of the enemy can be analysed in real time and a counter strategy evolved without any human intervention

yup I am aware of that buddy, but thats out of scope talk lets stay in the present time or near future.
we are pretty much at the edge of human endurance etc. but at this very moment, its the on board pilot that is the primary weapon in areal platforms

 

[oct605032048]

Thanks for the heads up! A very exhaustive and excellent piece of info!

However, I would like to add that the author has not mentioned the 250 - 300 fifth generation Sukhoi T-50s that would be inducted into the IAF by 2016-17.

250 T-50s for IAF by 2016?!

It would be a revolutionary improvement for Russia's weapon industry if you get any T-50 by 2016!

The Russians will produce T-50 for their airforce first as always.

 

[oct605032048]

Indian's new birds will be a serious threat to Pakistan, and to some extend, to China when they comes in a good number. Since most of the aircrafts will be assembled in India, that means it will most probably be delayed by at least 3 or 5 years to meet the need, maybe no later than 2020.

But still that's a big issue for PAF. China at hand does not have any model that has conclusive advantage against Indian's Rafael that will come after 2016. I doubt Pakistan can get J-20 by 2020, so J-10B would be the most practical choice. It is under testing and hopefully it will come in time.

 

[SEAL]

We need to relax and focus on JF-17 Block-2 and Block-3, J-10B is 4 years away before becoming part of PAF fleet.
We have platforms what we need is 4.5+ technology.

 

[killerx]

PAF JF17 block 2 will be good option i think F16b52 are good after im MMRCA F16 was also competing

 

[deckingraj]

250 T-50s for IAF by 2016?!

It would be a revolutionary improvement for Russia's weapon industry if you get any T-50 by 2016!

The Russians will produce T-50 for their airforce first as always.

Seems to be an expert on Russia's Defense Industry ....first of all as said by Irfan let's concentrate only on Rafale in this thread...Secondly we are not just a customer when it comes to T-50....We have 50% stake here...In short we will get the plane along with Russian Air-Force, not after their demands are met..

 

[danger007]

PAF JF17 block 2 will be good option i think F16b52 are good after im MMRCA F16 was also competing

...

Even F16blk15 also gud are you happy...

 

[killerx]

rafale will not be deliverd by 2014 for sure by that time JF17 block 3 will be on devlopment

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 PM ----------

...

Even F16blk15 also gud are you happy...

whay taken on you heart bro

 

[deckingraj]

why Pakistan thinking right now to counter MMRCA. Plz keep in mind that we have also advantage in missle tech too....when FC 20 arrives the doctorine change again ....we are neck to neck neighbours.....plz also considers missle tech in this subject

bcoz this will give you enough time to prepare and put in your counter....IAF will see Rafale by 2014-2015. Thereafter it will take atleast 3-4 years to master this plane and put in the doctrine. This gives PAF almost 6-7 years to put in an effective counter...However the work needs to start now....IAF has put in lot of thoughts and it took whopping 5 years to choose this plane and compared it with best of best...Now you can blame this time frame on slow bureaucracy at your own peril but irrespective of that IAF has show due diligence in choosing this plane...In short PAF cannot let IAF increase the parity to the level where it cannot challenge IAF....

 

[Foo_Fighter]

Indian's new birds will be a serious threat to Pakistan, and to some extend, to China when they comes in a good number. Since most of the aircrafts will be assembled in India, that means it will most probably be delayed by at least 3 or 5 years to meet the need, maybe no later than 2020.

But still that's a big issue for PAF. China at hand does not have any model that has conclusive advantage against Indian's Rafael that will come after 2016. I doubt Pakistan can get J-20 by 2020, so J-10B would be the most practical choice. It is under testing and hopefully it will come in time.

Sir I am surprised that a statement like that comes out of such a mature member like you.

regards

 

[Free Soul]

can i ask you a question.... when did you started inducting JF-17 into your AF and how many inducted upto now?? when the developement of blk-2 started when it will be finished?? n how many JETS your paf going to induct. when will it start into production line.

Please read original post.