Congress turns against Pakistan

[Jango]

the whole world is dependent on eachother....we are in a vicious circle at the moment.....but if the US stops its aid...we can have a way to stop our fighting in the north west....and maybe taliban will also fall back......but lets get real.....US cant afford to do anything like that at the moment...i am giving you my word for it....and during the next year it will not do so....if it does...you can bash me on the public forum by making a new thread lets bash nuclearpak.....fine???

 

[Emmie]

Wrong analysis. US can also control your exports, so.. if the US was angered enough to stop aid what makes you think they cannot stop your trade between countries that fall into its sphere of influence? Any such action, for however short a period of time will have devastating effects on your country. Taking into account the already pathetic state of your economy it wouldn't take long for your country to collapse and come back to the US to re-consider.

You are right but problem with me is that my patriotism doesn't allow me to think that way you are coming. I always have to prevaricate to veil my failures, I really cant help it.

 

[Trisonics]

the whole world is dependent on eachother....

Not true in this case. Pakistan only exports agricultural goods, textiles and hardly any engineered products. All these can be sourced from say Bangladesh or rest of Asia or S. America. [All this only if there was a situation if trade was banned and sanctions were in place]

we are in a vicious circle at the moment.....but if the US stops its aid...we can have a way to stop our fighting in the north west....and maybe taliban will also fall back......

The focus has shifted to PAK from Afghanistan. There are quite a few Taliban in your own country. How can you stop the US from going after them? In the end US may infact increase your aid but expect them to go after taliban in PAK

but lets get real.....US cant afford to do anything like that at the moment...

Yes, they will not stop your aid, on the contrary they will increase it along with increased drone attacks in PAK. How do you tackle that? No aid is a problem, aid is a bigger problem! Remember they refuse to apologize over violating your sovereignty...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

at the moment yes - we do have eachother by the balls somewhat

but in actuality as long as they need the supply routes and as long as they need an exit strategy in Afghanistan, they would not do any major knee-jerk reactions I'm sure. Actually, i cant remember the last time Congress ever was on our side. There's always been bi and tri partisanship going on. But at the end of the day, it makes no difference.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Not true in this case. Pakistan only exports agricultural goods, textiles and hardly any engineered products. All these can be sourced from say Bangladesh or rest of Asia or S. America. [All this only if there was a situation if trade was banned and sanctions were in place]

oh really? So those several parts and components we manufacture for Boeing are a myth? Defence exports; industrial machinery to GCC...I guess those are all just made up in the mind of the standard indian who knows nothing except doubting Pakistan's abilities

The focus has shifted to PAK from Afghanistan. There are quite a few Taliban in your own country. How can you stop the US from going after them? In the end US may infact increase your aid but expect them to go after taliban in PAK

the taleban do not call the shots in Pakistan; whereas, there are areas that are under (Afghan) taleban control -- in Afghanistan. They have councils operating in the open. And in fact, britisher and italian troops are paying them not to attack them (true story by the way)

Yes, they will not stop your aid, on the contrary they will increase it along with increased drone attacks in PAK. How do you tackle that? No aid is a problem, aid is a bigger problem! Remember they refuse to apologize over violating your sovereignty...

sooner or later, Pakistanis need to realize that even a 30% tax collection rate would be a huge boost and help -as far as institutional and infrastructural/state services growth is concerned. This is the time for the PEOPLE to take charge. But there is no accountability in the govt it seems. The aid isnt really going anywhere. And besides, it represents a tiny fraction of our actual national GDP.

i think it's US and Pak govt. which insists on the aid; the people on the street --it makes little to no difference to them. And it's funny to see indians trying to mock Pakistan when they are much larger recipients of foreign aid.

I'd prefer anything over knowing the fact that 10 unruly lightly armed kids could take over my financial capital for 3 days --coming in and docking in the heart of the city, in plastic dingy boats


just sayin!

 

[Trisonics]

oh really? So those several parts and components we manufacture for Boeing are a myth? Defence exports; industrial machinery to GCC...I guess those are all just made up in the mind of the standard indian who knows nothing except doubting Pakistan's abilities

What is the big deal? Boeing transferred technology for manufacturing some parts till 2010 as an offset clause since PIA bought a few planes. There was nothing "Pakistani" here!

None of what you named are significant when it comes to actual trade volumes from PAK.

And in fact, britisher and italian troops are paying them not to attack them (true story by the way)

its funny how you guys get "giggles" with such news. The bigger problem is here (since we were discussing "payments"):

I'd prefer anything over knowing the fact that 10 unruly lightly armed kids could take over my financial capital for 3 days --coming in and docking in the heart of the city, in plastic dingy boats
just sayin!

Why would I care for your preference?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

What is the big deal? Boeing transferred technology for manufacturing some parts till 2010 as an offset clause since PIA bought a few planes. There was nothing "Pakistani" here!

those parts are not just for locally used aircrafts; but for all Boeing commercial aircrafts

Pakistan has a decent engineering base, nothing substantially large however. You could learn what you seek to learn. I'm not a spokesperson.

but as usual, you bhartis like to underestimate and attempt to doubt others' capabilities. But then again, your country went nuclear thinking it could bully Pakistan and we know what happened a few days later.

its funny how you guys get "giggles" with such news. The bigger problem is here (since we were discussing "payments"):

i do get the giggle because they do what we were not doing; we didnt pay them to not attack us. They were on our side, and in fact much more ''manageable'' then than they are now. Even the Americans would attest to that.

as we had diplomatic relations, and as Afghanistan was a troubled, war-torn country that was abandoned of course we gave financial payments as a gesture of kindness to the incumbent government there --which happened to be Afghan taleban; many of whom were former mujahideen and served their country nobly by kicking out an aggressive occupier.


next few months, years will be very interesting to observe and watch closely as the NATO plans for eventual withdrawal. Hopefully the mess will be easy to manage, since a lot of people are tired of the war-like situation in Afghanistan and the border areas.

Why would I care for your preference?

Why would I care that you care or don't care? I'm just putting things into ''perspective'' for you

 

[Jango]

Not true in this case. Pakistan only exports agricultural goods, textiles and hardly any engineered products. All these can be sourced from say Bangladesh or rest of Asia or S. America. [All this only if there was a situation if trade was banned and sanctions were in place]



..

then buy it from bangladesh....get lost!!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

these baffoons act as if Pak economy is reliant on hindustan. Let them live in these illusions.

 

[KS]

these baffoons act as if Pak economy is reliant on hindustan. Let them live in these illusions.

Who said anything about reliance on India - Trisonics said about Pak economy reliance on US and its true.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

What kind of economy? The economy where you have 20 hours load shedding? The economy where you don't get natural gas during winters? The economy where generals and politicians are on sale? The economy where you don't have a clean drinking water? The economy which has nothing for poor? Ooh, are we talking about the econOmy of Kiyani's wife or Nawaz Shareef? Got it...Next time, please enlighten a Pakistani about his country's economy..

 

[SekrutYakhni]

"sooner or later, Pakistanis need to realize that even a 30% tax collection rate would be a huge boost and help -as far as institutional and infrastructural/state services growth is concerned. This is the time for the PEOPLE to take charge. But there is no accountability in the govt it seems. The aid isnt really going anywhere. And besides, it represents a tiny fraction of our actual national GDP.". We will do this and that. Pakistan will collect taxes, we will stop licking boots, we will have accountability...Are there any futuristic fantasies, buts and ifs left?

 

[Jango]

but tata nano is being launched here....what the hell..

 

[Meengla]

sooner or later, Pakistanis need to realize that even a 30% tax collection rate would be a huge boost and help -as far as institutional and infrastructural/state services growth is concerned. This is the time for the PEOPLE to take charge. But there is no accountability in the govt it seems. The aid isnt really going anywhere. And besides, it represents a tiny fraction of our actual national GDP.

@Abu,
These are some sensible words. Indeed, the remittance sent by the Overseas Pakistanis in two months alone is more than all net American 'aid' in two years.
You and I continue to have differences on the question of the role of India. I say that Pakistan gains much by the LOC=IB solution after ensuring justice for all in Kashmir. Your's is a different route.
But I still say you and other Pakistanis to go NY Times, Washington Post, ForeignPolicy.com, Huffington Post etc to show the Pakistani side of the debate. There are not many from Pakistan doing that.
In that connection, here is what I posted to NY Times a few minutes ago. It is yet to be approved by their Moderators though.

U.S. Was Braced for Fight With Pakistanis in Bin Laden Raid - Readers' Comments - NYTimes.com

1) If you look at the muted reactions in Pakistan since OBL death you should instantly see that not even 10,000 people have been brought to the streets by the religious parties there in a nation of 180 million to mourn OBL. And yet NY Times and others managed to highlight those few while deviously downplaying that the vast majority of Pakistanis did not care for OBL. That most Pakistanis did NOT care for OBL is the news worth more weight than less than 0.1% of population mourning OBL. Why is the American media again on a warpath? Why journalism is so one-sided? Where is the famed American dialectic when it comes to covering foreign events?

2) About the possibility that OBL can hide 'in plain sight', it does exist. How many months the 1996 Atlanta Olympics bomber managed to hide right in this country, barely a couple of hundred miles from Atlanta. Also, look at what D. Rumsfeld says: ...\"However, if you go from the Pentagon up the Potomac River and look at those biggest estates up there with gated walls and trees and hidden from sight, we don’t know what’s going on there. And it is possible that someone like that with a support system – Al Qaeda support system – in my view, very likely could hide in plain sight\".

3) Now, it is possible, and even likely, that Pakistan supports some factions of Talibans to gain leverage against India in a post-America period. However, there is no strategic gain by 'harboring' Al-Qaida. Indeed, Al-Qaida has repeatedly threatned Pakistani military and political leadership over past several years; it even managed to kill hundreds, if not thousands when it could. And the target included ISI officials as well. Go figure that.

4) It is possible that a few--no more than a few--Jihadi ISI officials chose to ignore OBL presence. They should be found and given exemplary punishment.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

be proactive and speak your mind; regardless of views

dont waste your time with New York Slimes....any true patriotic American would demand it be shut down. I was once patting an American buddy on the shoulder when he asked me why the ISI allegedly released the name of the CIA station chief in Pakistan

New York Times (Slimes) has been leaking American secrets and compromising their security since its bloody inception!

no need to waste time on those marxist, tree-hugger publications


I do agree with you though and in fact time to time I will shed some light on issues when I see posts that are reply-worthy. There is much confusion among some outsiders, especially due to negative propaganda