Concepts / Ideas for the Pakistan Navy

[LKJ86]

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Designing of New Russian Ocean Corvette with 24 Caliber​

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Some of these ships don't even have displacement of 1000 tonnes. And our 4000 Type 54 A Frigate can't carry land attack cruise missiles in their VLS. Seriously that is a shame. We need to learn some stuff from Russia. I am pretty sure if Russian companies are given more money by Russian Government they can come up with 2500 to 3000 tone corvettes which have more fire power then many Frigates in the world.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Tipu7 @Zephyrus @Sulman Badshah @Arsalan @LKJ86 @Deino

It would be a good choice for a brown/green-water navy, but not for a blue-water navy.

 

[Zarvan]

It would be a good choice for a brown/green-water navy, but not for a blue-water navy.

I am talking about Pakistan

 

[LKJ86]

I am talking about Pakistan

I mean Type 054A was develped according to the needs of a blue-water navy.

And our 4000 Type 54 A Frigate can't carry land attack cruise missiles in their VLS. Seriously that is a shame.

 

[FuturePAF]

Building up the merchant fleet to be fishing in the entire EEZ, a trip wire force that can keep an eye on activity in the EEZ. It’s dual purpose and sustainable through the fishing revenue. Adding special masts to the ships with the right kind of sensors (nothing cutting edge) will allow real time data back to shore, but keeping them unarmed will allow them to be classified as civilian for all intents and purposes. Hundreds of modern fishing ships all through out the EEZ and along the borders of the EEZ and near the SLOCs in the EEZ will allow Pakistan navy to keep eyes and ears open for any dangers. Similar to the air forces binoculars forces on the borders but with modern equipment.

especially if these ships can become motherships for cheap sensors like Talons

Some else to enhance the management of our EEZ, it’s marine life, our fishing stocks, and movement of vessels on or below the surface would be the use of bouys equipped with 600 foot long sonar arrays. Operated by a national fisheries agency they would also be civilian and work in conjunction with any marine management agency responsible for the EEZ. The navy could use the data to enhance any naval owned seabed sensor network.

Data from these bouys could be relayed by satellite or the Talons communication system.

Another technology could be UAVs equipped with AI on small ships that can be used for fishing/fish detection, that could also delay data on if they pick up a man made undersea object.

This kind of data can be relayed to our native fishermen, helping them fish in the most efficient manner, with the resources and board they already have, and decrease the need to bring in foreign commercial fishing trawlers. Creating more jobs for locals but also allowing the government to manage how much fish are taken from the fishing stocks to keep the populations of fish sustainable, while also maximizing taxable revenue and food supply for the nation.

 

[hoopoe]

Some else to enhance the management of our EEZ, it’s marine life, our fishing stocks, and movement of vessels on or below the surface would be the use of bouys equipped with 600 foot long sonar arrays. Operated by a national fisheries agency they would also be civilian and work in conjunction with any marine management agency responsible for the EEZ. The navy could use the data to enhance any naval owned seabed sensor network.

Data from these bouys could be relayed by satellite or the Talons communication system.

Another technology could be UAVs equipped with AI on small ships that can be used for fishing/fish detection, that could also delay data on if they pick up a man made undersea object.

This kind of data can be relayed to our native fishermen, helping them fish in the most efficient manner, with the resources and board they already have, and decrease the need to bring in foreign commercial fishing trawlers. Creating more jobs for locals but also allowing the government to manage how much fish are taken from the fishing stocks to keep the populations of fish sustainable, while also maximizing taxable revenue and food supply for the nation.

you may not be aware but pk’s fisheries stock and marine ecosystem is continually being destroyed by Chinese fishing fleet…

 

[FuturePAF]

you may not be aware but pk’s fisheries stock and marine ecosystem is continually being destroyed by Chinese fishing fleet…

I am aware, because no one would confirm when I posted a satellite imagery of a large number of trawlers (based on the large number of lights in a night time image) in the Pakistani EEZ, and people acted like it was a topic not to discuss.

 

[Tank131]

I am aware, because no one would confirm when I posted a satellite imagery of a large number of trawlers (based on the large number of lights in a night time image) in the Pakistani EEZ, and people acted like it was a topic not to discuss.

Thats because the majority of members only think about bullets, missiles, aircraft, and subs... They think that is the entirety of defense, with no attention to the necessity of fiscal solvency and natural resource management.

 

[FuturePAF]

Thats because the majority of members only think about bullets, missiles, aircraft, and subs... They think that is the entirety of defense, with no attention to the necessity of fiscal solvency and natural resource management.

Many, but I don’t the majority think that way. Systems are easier to quantify, but economic and legal regulations and protecting the livelihoods of our fellow countrymen are mired in political quicksand and therefore probably feel pointless to talk about. But precisely because they are so hard to talk about is why they need to be talked about. We can’t undermine the livelihoods of our Balochi brothers and sisters and not expect them to be upset they can’t feed their families.

 

[Abid123]

And our 4000 Type 54 A Frigate can't carry land attack cruise missiles in their VLS. Seriously that is a shame.

Why do you want to fire land attack cruise missiles from Corvette? Or for that matter frigates and destroyer's? Why not fire them from land?

 

[Zarvan]

Why do you want to fire land attack cruise missiles from Corvette? Or for that matter frigates and destroyer's? Why not fire them from land?

Well all three of your forces should have that capability. You need heavy Frigates and Destroyers or Corvettes like those of Russia which can fire dozens of 1500 KM or more range land attack cruise missiles on targets like Mumbai, Goa, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Chennai, Kochi and other areas of India.

 

[Tank131]

Why do you want to fire land attack cruise missiles from Corvette? Or for that matter frigates and destroyer's? Why not fire them from land?

You are asking the same question all have asked him for for nearly 10 years.

Subs, land and air are suitable cruise missile platforms for NOW. If you really want to have surface ships firing off cruise missiles, like the Russian ships @Zarvan mentioned, you need to first develop a much longer ranged LACM. 700KM ranged missile from your surface ships is gonna get that ship sunk by much larger surface fleet and a huge anti-ship air arm of IN. The missile needs better range to allow for launch from safer waters. THAT is why currently Subs are the best option for LACM deployment for PN given they can more stealthily get in, deliver the weapons and get out alive.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Thats because the majority of members only think about bullets, missiles, aircraft, and subs... They think that is the entirety of defense, with no attention to the necessity of fiscal solvency and natural resource management.

This is absolute truth. I see people loving the new shiny equipment but are least concerned about falling economic situation. People fail to understand that this is not sustainable, we to optimally operate & maintain such equipment you need sustainable economy. War is a pricey business. Even the deployment costs are humongous forget about actually using million dollar missiles & sustaining constant massive fuel requirements.

For a strong defense, you need a strong economy period

Some of these ships don't even have displacement of 1000 tonnes. And our 4000 Type 54 A Frigate can't carry land attack cruise missiles in their VLS. Seriously that is a shame. We need to learn some stuff from Russia. I am pretty sure if Russian companies are given more money by Russian Government they can come up with 2500 to 3000 tone corvettes which have more fire power then many Frigates in the world.

Answer to this given earlier in first paragraph. We need to prioritize our industry, our exports, and our economy. Once we are able to allocate tons of money then we surely will be able to induct warships capable of delivering 1000's km range missiles. What we are inducting are cost effective yet capable platforms to safe-guard our maritime interests. Such massive customization to support heavy & long range land attack missiles from surface ships would have pushed the cost of Type-54s extremely high.

It is actually a surprise to many the amount of vessels PN is aquiring with such crippled economy. By around 2014-2015, there were expectations to induct 3 more submarines and 4 F-22P (batch 2 {improve F-22ps}). But we were able to allocate funds for 8 submarines, 4 Type 54s, 4 Yarmooks, 4 Baburs. Let's be honest that this is way beyond our expectations and more then enough to deter india. Now, we simply cannot match the spendings of IN, they are 3 trillion dollar economy (world's 5th largest). To match them, we need to focus / prioritize our economy first. Invest money in economy, in power plants, in SMEs, and stuff like that.. in return, 1 or 2 decades later you will get a stronger economy to support scale your military to next level.

Although, we do need to introduce next versions of babur missiles with longer ranges. Atleast we'll have land based missiles to struck far off targets accurately.

 

[Zarvan]

You are asking the same question all have asked him for for nearly 10 years.

Subs, land and air are suitable cruise missile platforms for NOW. If you really want to have surface ships firing off cruise missiles, like the Russian ships @Zarvan mentioned, you need to first develop a much longer ranged LACM. 700KM ranged missile from your surface ships is gonna get that ship sunk by much larger surface fleet and a huge anti-ship air arm of IN. The missile needs better range to allow for launch from safer waters. THAT is why currently Subs are the best option for LACM deployment for PN given they can more stealthily get in, deliver the weapons and get out alive.

Where I said you should have 700 KM missile. What I am saying is we need Frigates like the French FREMM has. It should have either 32 VLS or 40 VLS. Out of those 32 or 40, 16 to 20 should be dedicated to carry Air Defence missiles. And other 16 to 20 of them should be able to carry and fire long rage land attack cruise missile of around 1500 KM or more. And FRENCH FREMM also carries 8 Exocest Anti-Ship Missiles of 200 or 300 KM range they can be used against Ships. Have 10 to 12 of those Ships. You also need Submarines which have VLS to do. Like the one South Korea has developed for its Submarines. South Korean Submarines can carry either 6 ballistic missiles or 15 cruise missiles in their VLS. South Korea is also developing a 1500 KM range cruise missile. Your Navy both from its Ships and Submarines should be able to unleash and hell and rain barrage of cruise missiles on Mumbai, Goa, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai, Kochi, Thiruvananthapuram and other main Indian cities. Only defensive ships are a suicide mission. Ships which can carry only Air Defence missiles in VLS won't work in future conflicts.

You also need to work with China to develop a 1500 KM range cruise missile which just like Tomahawk BLOCK V can hit targets on land but can also hit fast moving ships. In fact during mid-course you can command it to change route and hit some other target. Satellite help in that. Use China's to achieve that.

This is absolute truth. I see people loving the new shiny equipment but are least concerned about falling economic situation. People fail to understand that this is not sustainable, we to optimally operate & maintain such equipment you need sustainable economy. War is a pricey business. Even the deployment costs are humongous forget about actually using million dollar missiles & sustaining constant massive fuel requirements.

For a strong defense, you need a strong economy period



Answer to this given earlier in first paragraph. We need to prioritize our industry, our exports, and our economy. Once we are able to allocate tons of money then we surely will be able to induct warships capable of delivering 1000's km range missiles. What we are inducting are cost effective yet capable platforms to safe-guard our maritime interests. Such massive customization to support heavy & long range land attack missiles from surface ships would have pushed the cost of Type-54s extremely high.

It is actually a surprise to many the amount of vessels PN is aquiring with such crippled economy. By around 2014-2015, there were expectations to induct 3 more submarines and 4 F-22P (batch 2 {improve F-22ps}). But we were able to allocate funds for 8 submarines, 4 Type 54s, 4 Yarmooks, 4 Baburs. Let's be honest that this is way beyond our expectations and more then enough to deter india. Now, we simply cannot match the spendings of IN, they are 3 trillion dollar economy (world's 5th largest). To match them, we need to focus / prioritize our economy first. Invest money in economy, in power plants, in SMEs, and stuff like that.. in return, 1 or 2 decades later you will get a stronger economy to support scale your military to next level.

Although, we do need to introduce next versions of babur missiles with longer ranges. Atleast we'll have land based missiles to struck far off targets accurately.

We need to prioritize that but even with Type 54 A we could have achieved it. We should have worked with China and make it slightly heavier ship. With 32 VLS but divided in two. 16 dedicated for Air Defence and 16 to carry and fire long range land attack cruise missiles.

 

[khansaheeb]

Drone carriers

The ship should have extended sides where drones can land and take off from so that they can provide early warning, surveillance and long distance attacks.

 

[MIRauf]

Zaevan, In case of SK, their main foes are right next door within short reach ( 1000KM ) major centers of ( NK or Japan. ) SK AIP subs could easly stay within it's on Maritime Zone protected by Ships along with Fighter cover. For PN, the Subs will need to go out as far as Bay of Bengal which will be hard for a AIP subs to do undetected. SK will not pick a fight with PLA or the Ruskies unless attacked and that point they are covered under US Nuclear / Conventional Umbrella.

PN will ( does ) require fleet of SSN, VLS system with SLCM and or SR-SLBM. Even a under 1KM SLBM can achieve desired results that you seek.

PS: Launch of BM is akin to attack via nukes whereas CM will most likely be considered conventional in most cases.