Concept Design of a CAS Aircraft For The Needs Of Pakistan Military

[tvsram1992]

we are talking about ops against terrorists in which we might need an air raid. surely we do not need F-16 for that.


what makes you think we will use K-8 in war against india?

Why do you need aircrafts when US is doing that?

 

[Armstrong]

@Najam Khan : Couldn't a modified version of an A-5 be looked into ? Or a modified version of the TAI Hurkus be explored with Turkey ? If not a modified version of a K-8 ?

 

[Najam Khan]

@Najam Khan : Couldn't a modified version of an A-5 be looked into ? Or a modified version of the TAI Hurkus be explored with Turkey ? If not a modified version of a K-8 ?

They can be done, modified K-8 with structural modifications can be a good solution. A-5, i don't think so, its big and slow as compare to K-8 (A-5 speed 643 kts, K-8 speed 513 kts) , not good turn rate as well...it will be a sitting duck for ground fire. TAI Hurkus, no need for that, K-8 can perform this role with more efficiency.

Read some more points discussed here.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...eds-pakistan-army-aviation-4.html#post2676541

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...eds-pakistan-army-aviation-3.html#post2674667

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...eds-pakistan-army-aviation-5.html#post2688782

 

[Armstrong]

@Najam Khan : Thank You for the reply !

I did go through the rest of the thread & I did get the idea of how the K-8 could be modified, I suppose my main contention is the, apparent, lack of movement on this front by us. I believe that we value the Cobras as a better platform for COIN operations than designing, testing & nurturing a radically reconfigured K-8. I think it could be because of our belief that as soon as an agreement of sorts is reached with the Taliban (something that Pakistan has been hotly pursuing since the '01) by the Americans & the subsequent tone down of US presence in Afghanistan; the threat from the insurgents would be reduced to a level which does not justify the costs involved in modifying the K-8 to that end. Or is it that such a proposition has been entertained & rejected by the people at Kamra due to some technical limitations of the platform ?

 

[Najam Khan]

@Najam Khan : Thank You for the reply !

I did go through the rest of the thread & I did get the idea of how the K-8 could be modified, I suppose my main contention is the, apparent, lack of movement on this front by us. I believe that we value the Cobras as a better platform for COIN operations than designing, testing & nurturing a radically reconfigured K-8.

Because operations in WOT are mostly directly funded by US. Cobras and F-16 should be put to good use, instead of utilizing rest of the air force assets in that.

I think it could be because of our belief that as soon as an agreement of sorts is reached with the Taliban (something that Pakistan has been hotly pursuing since the '01) by the Americans & the subsequent tone down of US presence in Afghanistan; the threat from the insurgents would be reduced to a level which does not justify the costs involved in modifying the K-8 to that end. Or is it that such a proposition has been entertained & rejected by the people at Kamra due to some technical limitations of the platform ?

K-8 never got such attention in the past, because we had A-5s for ground role. COIN ops were turned into F16/Cobra's show. K-8's first general over haul was done in 2007, now last year in Jan'2011 it was inducted in first squadron, from here it has the chance to show its ground role capabilities. Now may be in 3-5 years we see a demonstration in ground-role by K-8s

 

[Penguin]

^problem with Super Mushshak is that it's wing is a high shoulder instead of mid/low shoulder one.it prevents the aircraft to carry large payload.

considering a gun pod is installed,perhaps only a couple of dumb bombs that can be installed

See:

Advanced High Performance Reconnaissance Light Aircraft (South Africa)
Cessna O-2 Skymaster (USA)
Rockwell OV/10 Bronco )USA
Counter-insurgency aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
North American Rockwell OV-10 Bronco - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

we are talking about ops against terrorists in which we might need an air raid. surely we do not need F-16 for that.


what makes you think we will use K-8 in war against india?

So that makes the requirement COIN rather than CAS (or do the two coinside?).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_air_support
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-insurgency_aircraft

 

[Manticore]

 

[Manticore]

PZL-230 Skorpion

 

[Kompromat]

@ANTIBODY

How about Hurkus's CAS version being developed by TAI.

 

[kurup]

PZL-230 Skorpion

Intersting aircraft . Looks like a SR-71 wannabe .

 

[ZohaibMumtaz]

Goood Concept

 

[Keshav Murali]

Best thread of this forum

Good job guys, and keep this up!

And can someone do a diagram or a 3D model about this?

 

[Pulsar]

A-10 are no longer in for a offer to us ! they perhaps were in the past but we didn't go for it cuz we wanted the f-16's for multirole and now after the gulf war the Americans know wat the A-10 is capble of they will never offer it to us.

The A-10 Wart Hog would be an invaluable aerial platform in today's scenario where threat perceptions have changed from conventional battle to COIN ops. It would be an excellent option for CAS as well as counter terror ops as it has the requisite armor protection and greater loiter capabilities due to its low speed.

The A-10 is exceptionally tough. Its strong airframe can survive direct hits from armor-piercing and high-explosive projectiles up to 23 mm. The aircraft has triple redundancy in its flight systems, with mechanical systems to back up double-redundant hydraulic systems. The aircraft is designed to fly with one engine, one tail, one elevator, and half of one wing missing!

Its primary built-in weapon is the 30 mm GAU-8/A Avenger Gatling-type cannon. One of the most powerful aircraft cannons ever flown, it fires large depleted uranium armor-piercing shells. Another commonly used weapon is the AGM-65 Maverick air-to-surface missile, with variants for electro-optical (TV-guided) or infrared targeting. Other weapons include cluster bombs and Hydra rocket pods.

So, wouldn't this be a good option in today's insurgency environment which is a clear and present danger rather than obtaining an expensive aerial platform with an eye on conventional warfare that would perhaps never take place at least in the near future?

 

[TOPGUN]

The A-10 Wart Hog would be an invaluable aerial platform in today's scenario where threat perceptions have changed from conventional battle to COIN ops. It would be an excellent option for CAS as well as counter terror ops as it has the requisite armor protection and greater loiter capabilities due to its low speed.

The A-10 is exceptionally tough. Its strong airframe can survive direct hits from armor-piercing and high-explosive projectiles up to 23 mm. The aircraft has triple redundancy in its flight systems, with mechanical systems to back up double-redundant hydraulic systems. The aircraft is designed to fly with one engine, one tail, one elevator, and half of one wing missing!

Its primary built-in weapon is the 30 mm GAU-8/A Avenger Gatling-type cannon. One of the most powerful aircraft cannons ever flown, it fires large depleted uranium armor-piercing shells. Another commonly used weapon is the AGM-65 Maverick air-to-surface missile, with variants for electro-optical (TV-guided) or infrared targeting. Other weapons include cluster bombs and Hydra rocket pods.

So, wouldn't this be a good option in today's insurgency environment which is a clear and present danger rather than obtaining an expensive aerial platform with an eye on conventional warfare that would perhaps never take place at least in the near future?

All of what you took time out to write is true however, reality stays where it does the US will not give them to us nor anyone else that is why they are the only primary users of the A-10 .

 

[PakShaheen79]

Interestingly, C-130 also had assumed that role for sometime now and has done quite well during different ops in Afghanistan and IIRC, PAF also modified couple of its C-130 for that role.

Concept

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