Comparing India and Pakistan 2010

[ameer219]

Ok That's it, I am entering this discussion already.

After reading this 11 page discussion, I am really quite dissapointed with my Pakistani counterparts.

Instead of pointing out the bad points of the Indian side, and sub topics such as "toilets" and everything, don't you guys see how well India are doing?

Don't you see how much their economy has grown compared to ours?Can't you see how much they have improved?

Why are we being so oblivious to their good points, and always looking at our rivals' bad points?

Pakistan has so much untapped potential, and we are not using it, compared to India, which unlike us, has played an important role in today's world.

Instead of always looking down on them, why not look at them as a role model, not politically, but economically?

Look at how much they are advancing!

So I have to disagree here with RiazHaq, even if his sources are true, it still won't change the fact, that India is fast moving towards being an economic power.

 

[RiazHaq]

Here are some interesting data and observations from a well-informed Indian blogger:

"A 2006 opinion poll by Outlook—AC Nielsen shows that 46 % of India’s urban class wants to settle down in US. Interestingly, in the Hindutva heart land of Gujarat, 54 % of people want to move to US.

Even Parliament members of the Hindutva party are involved in human trafficking from India. Recently police arrested, Babubhai Katara, a Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) MP, who was part of such a racket. He received 20,000 US $ per person for US migration from victims.

When Indians are fleeing around the world to find a job, how can this hindutva idiots can claim on “National Pride of India”?

India is the World Bank’s largest borrower, In June 2007 it provided $3.7bn in new loans to India. Due to the fake ‘India Shining’ propaganda launched by Hindutva idiots, foreign donors are reluctant to help the poor people in this country. [Financial Times]

Gridlocked in corruption, greed, inhumanity and absolute inequality – of class, caste, wealth, religion – this is the Real INDIA. Hindutva Idiots, Your false pride and actions make our life miserable."

A Zillion reasons to escape from India

 

[RiazHaq]

It is doubtful if he realizes that all aide can't be classified as public debt. By that measure, US would be the worst economy because US has the largest external debt in absolute terms.

It's ridiculous to compare US debt with the debt of a third world country like India.

Not only does US have AAA debt rating, it is the issue of the world's biggest reserve currency. The US does not go looking for soft loans like India or Pakistan.

Most of what is called foreign aid to the developing world is in the form of soft loans to help them because no commercial lender would lend at such attractive rates and easy terms as the donors, including US, Britain, Japan and the World Bank.

 

[toxic_pus]

It's ridiculous to compare US debt with the debt of a third world country like India.

Not only does US have AAA debt rating, it is the issue of the world's biggest reserve currency.

That while ridiculing the 'comparison' you had to fall back on an indicator, other than the absolute amount of external debt, illustrates that absolute figures don't matter unless viewed in conjunction with several other factors. Precisely my point.

The US does not go looking for soft loans like India or Pakistan.

Most of what is called foreign aid to the developing world is in the form of soft loans to help them because no commercial lender would lend at such attractive rates and easy terms as the donors, including US, Britain, Japan and the World Bank.

Soft or Hard, it all accumulates to form external debt, if it is routed through public channel. My point again, that you can't just compare volume of debts, or nature as well, if you don't look at the several other indicators.

A country with high debt but good debt coverage is still better than a country with low debt but even lousier debt coverage.

That wasn't too hard, was it ? Or was it 'soft'?

 

[karan.1970]

If you want to understand the importance of sanitation, here's a quote from Dr. Bindeshwar Pathak who is trying to do something about it:

"The toilet is a part of the history of human hygiene which is critical chapter in the growth of civilization."

This assetion about higher malnutrition in Pakistan than India is baseless. It runs counter to everything I have seen from UN agencies and from people such as Syeda Hameed who know better than you or I.

As to the per capita use of cloth, it's another indicator of std of living where India is at the bottom...at less than half of the world average.

The data about calories from non-food grain sources includes veggies. What it show is that Indian depend on wheat or rice for two-thirds of their calories.

According to the FAO, the average dairy consumption of the developing countries is still very low (45 kg of all dairy products in liquid milk equivalent), compared with the average of 220 kg in the industrial countries. Few developing countries have per capita consumption exceeding 150 kg (Argentina, Uruguay and some pastoral countries in the Sudano-Sahelian zone of Africa). Among the most populous countries, only Pakistan, at 153 kg per capita, has such a level. In South Asia, where milk and dairy products are preferred foods, India has only 64 kg and Bangladesh 14 kg. East Asia has only 10 kg.

Haq's Musings: Fixing Sanitation Crisis in India

Ok, so pakistani wear more clothes and drink more milk.. I havent validated this figure and dont intend to.. But these are all stand alone statistics. In a composite manner, go and check the Human Development Index from UN that shown Pakistan lower than India.. As I said, India scores very low there, but Pakistan is worse...

About more malnutrition in Pakistan, dude, I didnt know that as well.. Its you who pointed me to Global Hunger Index statistics and thats what that index says.. Guess next time you should read the report completely (to make sure it doesn't damn Pakistan more than India) before using that as research to back your claims
Incidently one of the exerpts from the report
The negative end of the South Asian
spectrum: Pakistan
Out of 90 countries, Pakistan ranks 87th on the 2008 Gender Gap Index and 83rd for the education subindex – demonstrating among the highest levels of gender inequality in the region. Only 22 percent of girls, compared with 47 percent of boys, complete primary schooling (World Bank 2009a). Given the demonstrated importance of access to education for rates of hunger, Pakistan’s staggering inequalities between men and women may be closely related to the country’s high rates of hunger and malnutrition

Actually the report shows another interesting fact. The % undernourished population in Pakistan has increased from 22% to 23% , where as for India it has decreased from 24% to 21%.

http://www.ifpri.org/sites/default/files/publications/ghi09.pdf

 

[karan.1970]

Except for a small minority of the rich, almost all Indians would leave their country if they could. That's why the world imposes restrictions on their entry.

With limited resources and about twice the population density of Pakistan, India is heavily overcrowded, deprived and bursting at the seams. That's why Indians are spilling over in spite of others trying to stop them.

About a million Indians manage to escape from India every year.

A Zillion reasons to escape from India

I didnt expect even you to stoop down to the level of making verbose statements contradicting data. Indians may be leaving India in droves, but Pakistanis are leaving in bigger droves and thats why the net outflow of immigrants(legal or illegal) from india is 0.05(per thousand) and from Pakistan is 3.13 per thousand

And do I need to even comment on citizens of which country hace more restrictions and that too even on traveling let alone immigrating..

 

[karan.1970]

We are down now but we will rise...

Inshah Allah..

Believe you me.. I get no enjoyment from posting data that shows Pakistan in worse light than India. It is such a futile exercise. On social index, both India and Pakistan have failed till date. It really doesnt matter that Pakistan is worse off becuase both are pathetic. But our dear old Mr Haq, seems to love a p!ss!ng contest and wouldnt let go...

btw, I agree... If this whole terrorism menace is sorted out in next year or 2, 10 years down the line will show a very different pakistan..

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Insah Allah..

Believe you me.. I get no enjoyment from posting data that shows Pakistan in worse light than India. It is such a futile exercise. On social index, both India and Pakistan have failed till date. It really doesnt matter that Pakistan is worse off becuase both are pathetic. But our dear old Mr Haq, seems to love a p!ss!ng contest and wouldnt let go...

btw, I agree... If this whole terrorism menace is sorted out in next year or 2, 10 years down the line will show a very different pakistan..

Yeah!
India and Pakistan should cooperate with each other..
There will be very different Pakistan down the road because Pakistanis will start to take the responsibility...

 

[indian_musing]

Guyz, I am a new member to this forum.

I am going through this forum for some days. I could not tolerate the BS posts. decided to join and post some amazing achivements of pakistans on the eyes of external world.

http : / / specials. rediff. com /news/2009/feb/19slid1-pak-break-up-benefits-India-in-long-term. htm


Will Pakistan's break-up bode well for India?

Tristan James Mabry, a professor in the government department at Georgetown University in Washington, DC, believes that Pakistan is a failed State


http : / / news.rediff. com/slide-show/2009/jul/01/slide-show-1-failed-nations-index. htm

Pakistan 10th in failed nations index: Rediff.com News

Pakistan, split in the middle with terrorist attacks and facing an economic crisis, remains among the top 10 failed states.

The country, placed ninth among all countries last year in terms of its overall achievement, has improved its position only by a notch -- it is placed 10th in the index.
Pakistan ranks just behind Iraq (6) and Afghanistan (7).

http : / / news.rediff . com/column/2009/mar/10/guest-is-india-ready-for-pakistans-coming-collapse. htm

Is India ready for Pakistan's coming collapse?

Pakistan, a nuclear armed state of 170 million people, is facing a virtual meltdown and its political leadership seems utterly incapable of steering the country through the present mess. The international community has few levers left that might have any significant impact on the course of events. And so everyone is just waiting with bated breath for events to unfold in what is probably the worst crisis in Pakistan's troubled history.

http: / / news.rediff. com/column/2009/mar/30/guest-pakistan-on-the-brink-again. htm

Pakistan: On the brink again
Notwithstanding the political truce, Pakistan's troubles are far from over. Its economy has failed to weather the ongoing financial storm; inflation is ruling in double digits; the Pakistani rupee has fallen to record lows against the US dollar and unemployment is at an all time high. Pakistan has become a rentier state that is surviving on US dole for services being rendered for logistics support -- a euphemism for allowing US and NATO countries to use its territory for supplying their forces fighting the Taliban-Al Qaeda combine in Afghanistan. Since the amounts being received are far in excess of the cost of fuel and other services that Pakistan is providing, monetary compensation is obviously being given to Pakistan for silently suffering missile and air strikes launched from across its border with Afghanistan by US and NATO forces against the terrorists in the NWFP and FATA. While unveiling his new ****** policy, President Barack Obama [ Images ] has demanded greater accountability from Pakistan in the so-called global war on terrorism. This will put even greater pressure on the Pakistan army [ Images ] to show tangible results.


http: / / rediff. com/news/2009/mar/22pak-close-to-becoming-a-failed-state-chidambaram. htm

Pak close to becoming a failed state: Chidambaram


akistan is "pretty dysfunctional" and "perilously close" to becoming a failed state, Home Minister P Chidambaram [Images] has said as he voiced concern over the spread of Taliban [Images] influence in that country which could have a spill-over effect on India.

 

[karan.1970]

Here are some interesting data and observations from a well-informed Indian blogger:

"A 2006 opinion poll by Outlook—AC Nielsen shows that 46 % of India’s urban class wants to settle down in US. Interestingly, in the Hindutva heart land of Gujarat, 54 % of people want to move to US.

Even Parliament members of the Hindutva party are involved in human trafficking from India. Recently police arrested, Babubhai Katara, a Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) MP, who was part of such a racket. He received 20,000 US $ per person for US migration from victims.

When Indians are fleeing around the world to find a job, how can this hindutva idiots can claim on “National Pride of India”?

India is the World Bank’s largest borrower, In June 2007 it provided $3.7bn in new loans to India. Due to the fake ‘India Shining’ propaganda launched by Hindutva idiots, foreign donors are reluctant to help the poor people in this country. [Financial Times]

Gridlocked in corruption, greed, inhumanity and absolute inequality – of class, caste, wealth, religion – this is the Real INDIA. Hindutva Idiots, Your false pride and actions make our life miserable."

A Zillion reasons to escape from India

But as the data shows, Pakistanis are leaving Pakistan at a higher rate...remember the 0.05 per thousand migration rate for India vs 3.13 for Pakistan

 

[indian_musing]

But as the data shows, Pakistanis are leaving Pakistan at a higher rate...remember the 0.05 per thousand migration rate for India vs 3.13 for Pakistan

I think he is counting only migration to USA not to the gulf countries.
We all know how the arab treats pakistanis. I worked in saudi and I know about it.

I bet he never answer your question or acknowledge it.

 

[karan.1970]

Guyz, I am a new member to this forum.
....

Dude.. If i can take liberty of giving you some advice...

Dont emulate people like Riaz who only want to spew hatred and play with numbers and headlines to score cheap points. While its necessary to counter his arguements, stay restricted to that..Remember when you run down Pakistan, you are not only becoming as bad as Riaz but are also ridiculing normal sane people in Pakistan(which is the majority of the population) who like you and I are working towards making their country progress.

So in my view, counter with data all such nonsense that Riaz spreads, but dont flame back at all Pakistanis..

 

[faheemsial]

I think that's the matter of issues, in some issues ya Pakistan is a fail state even india is also fail state in many issues, i think we can't proof a state as fail state by only highlighting the negative aspects of that state. Even USA is a fail state in many issues.

The common problem for both Pakistan and India is their political bodies which are just like the termite for their countries, haven't any national thoughts not loyal to their countries only working for USA and Jew's cause.

 

[Bang Galore]

This has been true just since 2008.

India has been and still is the biggest recipient of foreign aid, receiving billions more than Pakistan.

In spite of all of the recent news about aid to Pakistan dominating the media, the fact remains that resurgent India has received more foreign aid than any other developing nation since the end of World War II--estimated at almost $100 billion since the beginning of its First Five-Year Plan in 1951.

Silly comparison. India is a much bigger country and so would have received more aid. India received a lot of aid immediately after independence and we remain grateful for that. It is however 2010 that we are discussing ,not the whole period after independence.

And it continues to receive more foreign aid in spite of impressive economic growth for almost a decade.

So even you agree that India's growth is impressive.

At the recent G20 meeting, India has asked the World Bank to raise the amount of money India can borrow as soft loans, generally considered aid, from the bank for its infrastructure projects, according to Times of India. At present, India can borrow up to $15.5 billion in soft loans as per the SBL (single borrower limit)in soft loans fixed by the Bank.

There is a difference between world bank loans for development projects and those given to tide over fiscal crises. The former come with a lot less strings than the latter. I find your classification of soft loans from the world bank as aid intriguing. It is still a loan which has to be paid back. The only thing soft is the interest charged. Even if we accept your classification, the difference between the charged interest and the normal rate is the only amount that can be classified as aid and not the full figure of the loan.

One last point; most of us are deeply aware of the failings of our country. We however believe that we are on a path to a better tomorrow. Maybe if you and those of your countrymen and women who expend all their energy trying to put down India were to spend even a portion of that towards bettering Pakistan, you too could be on a similar path.

This reminds me of an anecdote that did the rounds in the 90's.

A Pakistani diplomat gleefully told an Indian diplomat that " In the end both of us have fallen in the same gutter". To which the Indian diplomat replied " that may be true but the difference is that we are looking up and you are looking down".

I see that the statement still holds true.

 

[faheemsial]

A Pakistani diplomat gleefully told an Indian diplomat that " In the end both of us have fallen in the same gutter". To which the Indian diplomat replied " that may be true but the difference is that we are looking up and you are looking down".

I see that that statement still holds true.

Well bro i dont think so Pakistani Govt is a bullshit but not Pakistanis , let's assume Pakistan is a fail state so why still standing on the map of the earth?Specially while its traditional opponent inida is in power and now a days india have great attention of USA? Problem with Pakistan is that people has lack of national thought, unity and to some accent also suffering with external threats (who are interfering in agency areas, Baluchistan etc and i think u can understand these threats as well that who they are?). Well we have lack of leadership and unity not the resources etc. And m agreed that india is progressing and is on the way to progress more n more and whatever they are but indian political leadership is well educated and working for their country "M agreed that k politicians kuty ki dum hoty hain but still india has better leadership than Pakistan."