Comparing India and Pakistan 2010

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

LOL By far the funniest thing on this forum lol Ya Pakistan is sooo stable lol did you make this yourself with Microsoft paint ?

With posts like these and 'Pakistan is a top ten failed state' I really don't expect the Indians to be complaining about Haq's posts - so stop.

 

[RiazHaq]

See, Riaz, you are making a fool of yourself by not answering the questions you were asked. You do not understand the basic tenet of a debate in this forum. You are caught red handed mangling data and preferentially ignoring parts of the article to suit your taste as shown by the Indian members again and again but you don't have an iota of regret. Bravo !!!

Thanks for pointing out that farmers are committing suicide in India. 70% of Indian agriculture is dependent on rain and no govt. can create favourable winds that make sure that every part of India is nourished with rain. So Thanks for taking time out and using some search tool with keywords "India + Poverty + Farmers + village" which I guess is your favourite search string.

I have not only answered all of the relevant question, but offered lots of authentic data from credible sources to make you and others like you see the reality as it exists. But, unfortunately, there is none so blind as those who will not see.

The fact is that you and your fellow Indian posters are making fools of yourselves by denying the reality of India' poverty, hunger, illiteracy, malnutrition, lack of hygiene, and general backwardness relative to Pakistan, and even Bangladesh, and you are doing so in the face of overwhelming data I have shared here.

In addition to international agencies, a large part of the data I share is attributed to Indian officials and other Indian sources, and emanates from Indian capital New Delhi.

India trails Pakistan, Bangladesh in sanitation

'India worse than Pakistan, Bangladesh on nourishment' ? Sulekha News

The biggest problem here is that Indians like you have started believing the baseless western and Indian media hype designed to make Indian look good.

You all need to collectively wake up and smell the rotten veggies.

 

[ramu]

Ramu buddy...you are right about 70% farming dependence on Rain...However if we have to learn from it don't you think that we atleast failed on one thing i.e. we failed to channelize our water fascilities to reduce this depedency????

As said above since he is hell bent on proving how Pakistan is better in India on all fronts we are countering his distorted facts/lies with actual data....But there is no denying the fact we have lot of ground to cover

Yes dude... As Karan and others pointed out, we are not denying anything. The reason he is bring all this up is to show that India is inferior and as per his analysis, Pakistan is better than India. All his fictitious facts and figures day in and out are geared to prove that. Now, a healthy debate is one where we agree on things that are acceptable with reasoning rather than twisting the facts.

About your observation of how we could have done better, yes we could have done much better. But what is the point in being reasonable and calling a spade a spade when anyone going through this thread can clearly see the new lows of forum postings by you know who.

A country like Pakistan where not a single project in fresh water management was put in place in last 3 decades in the areas that blame everyone but their leaders for this grand wreck. It will be nice to see a blog on water management for his own country instead of talking about India.

 

[RiazHaq]

***********************************************

Now lets look at the other side of the picture(Since it is all about blogging i did not paid any attention to the autheticity)

One blog says....

The government of Pakistan is deaf to these human rights violations. There are in fact huge violations of the Tenancy Act and other laws and regulations of the country; but there is no court to hear these cases because these feudal lords are financially, politically, and socially very strong and influential. There is no authority to challenge them. These farmers are not allowed to get involved in any trade union activities.

Pakistan: the plight of the agriculture workers

Pakistan and issues of Feudalism

Pakistan: The Present Government and Feudalism

PAKISTAN: Feudalism: root cause of Pakistan’s malaise - 25 March 2000

Feudalism in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I absolutely agree with all of the criticism of Pakistan's feudal excesses and its feudal democracy.

Haq's Musings: "Ode" to the Feudal Prince of Pakistan

 

[ramu]

I have not only answered all of the relevant question, but offered lots of authentic data from credible sources to make you and others like you see the reality as it exists. But, unfortunately, there is none so blind as those who will not see.

The fact is that you and your fellow Indian posters are making fools of yourselves by denying the reality of India' poverty, hunger, illiteracy, malnutrition, lack of hygiene, and general backwardness relative to Pakistan, and even Bangladesh, and you are doing so in the face of overwhelming data I have shared here.

In addition to international agencies, a large part of the data I share is attributed to Indian officials and other Indian sources, and emanates from Indian capital New Delhi.

India trails Pakistan, Bangladesh in sanitation

'India worse than Pakistan, Bangladesh on nourishment' ? Sulekha News

The biggest problem here is that Indians like you have started believing the baseless western and Indian media hype designed to make Indian look good.

You all need to collectively wake up and smell the rotten veggies.

Riaz, all your blogs have an undercurrent of poor sanitation, malnourished children and illiteracy. No one here ever debated the authenticity of your posts but your selective staging of a few figures and ignoring the macro indicators reflecting poor grasp of metrics. You have messed up a couple of times in coming out with wrong numbers but ignoring that, you have to agree that you have cherry picked sections of the article to suit your perception of India.

Indian media or western media does not even know the name of the village I come from but I know the progress people have made in the last two decades. The evils of caste system is a thing of the past but your blogs continue to live in deja vu. I am a foot soldier who believes in what I see on ground and I am not talking of isolated cases here.

I have professional association with ventures to bring technology to the rural population and the surge in buying power is something that gets reflected year on year. Indian economy is several times the disclosed GDP as the informal and unseen transactions from the view of a taxman is about 2 times the Indian economy itself.

The Indian population is diverse and you will find everything from ****** rich to the poorest of the poor. That is what you get from a country that is yet to wake up and realise its potential. However, the pace with which the country has made progress shows in the confidence young entrepreneurs have in making a difference.

Your blogs reflect the state of India and I am not commenting on Pakistan or Bangladesh but remember that each year millions of people come out of poverty. Irrespective of what you blog, the knowledge you have is by reading articles and watching what people want to film. When you debate with Indians, remember that they know their country better than you.

 

[RiazHaq]

Riaz, all your blogs have an undercurrent of poor sanitation, malnourished children and illiteracy. No one here ever debated the authenticity of your posts but your selective staging of a few figures and ignoring the macro indicators reflecting poor grasp of metrics. You have messed up a couple of times in coming out with wrong numbers but ignoring that, you have to agree that you have cherry picked sections of the article to suit your perception of India.

I believe a society should be judged by how it treats its most vulnerable citizens. By this criterion, I find both India and Pakistan lacking, and my blog criticizes both.

I find fault with Pakistan' corrupt and inept feudal elite that does not care for its people, and I write frequently about it. I criticize Pakistan's treatment of its women, its children and its minorities through frequent pots on these subjects. And I rarely get hate mail for it from my Pakistani readers. In fact, most agree with my criticisms.

I also find fault with India because of the callous disregard it shows for its women (female genocide), its children ( almost half its children are malnourished), its dalits ( UN human rights commissioner Pillai calls it Apartheid), and its minorities which are subject to frequent massacres by what American researcher Paul Brass describes as "production of violence" by known powerful groups in Indian politics and state machinery.

Unfortunately, most of my Indian readers and posters on the net only selectively read, target and attack any criticism of India, a phenomenon that has been witnessed and discussed by many foreigners.

The net is full of hypersensitive Indian netizens who troll the web and take offense at the slightest criticism of their country, while at the same time viciously attacking Pakistan in the most virulent terms.

In fact, my experience is captured well by a column Irfan Hissain, a harsh critic of Pakistan, wrote recently:

The reality is that we are all touchy about seeing our dirty linen washed in public, but somehow, Indians seem super-sensitive to any hint of criticism. While there are many dissenting voices that question Indian claims to having reached Nirvana, they do not find much space in the mainstream media. Although Indian journalists do excellent work in digging up scams and scandals, they do not often question the broad consensus underpinning the ‘India shining’ image the media, politicians and big business work so hard at projecting.

I spent the other evening at the Karachi Boat Club in the company of a European who has spent a long time in the region, and knows South Asia well, having lived in Pakistan and India for several years. When I asked him how it felt to be back in Pakistan after being away for a few years in New Delhi, his answer came as a surprise. As we have known each other for fifteen years, he had no need to be polite: “It feels great to be back,” he replied. “You have no idea how difficult day-to-day life is in New Delhi. Apart from the awful traffic, the pollution, and the expense, you have to put up with the prickliness of most Indians you meet. They are touchy to the point of paranoia. There is a lot of very aggressive poverty in the air. And when the New Delhi airport opens, we’ll have to brace ourselves for yet another self-congratulatory blast. What is truly shocking is how little the well-off Indians care about the poor.”

“Here in Pakistan, people are so much more laid back. Karachi’s traffic flows much faster, and I don’t sense the same kind of anger. While I’m sure there must be slums, I do not see the same level of abject poverty that is ever-present in India. And of course, the food is much better here.”

I suspect this last observation will provoke more ire among my Indian readers than anything else my friend said. The truth is that meat dishes cooked in Pakistan are better than in India, although vegetables there are far tastier than ours. However, this article is not about scoring points, but about the different ways in which we react to criticism. It is also about the myth and the reality underlying the Indian success story.



DAWN.COM | Columnists | Don?t shoot the messenger

 

[karan.1970]

The below managed to bring one discussion to closure, .. Lets see if that does it here too

Lets see if we can come to an agreement (last attempt)

1. India is not a superpower
2. Pakistan is not a failed state
3. Last 10 years India has grown at a much higher pace than earlier
4. Pakistan also grew at a phenomenal pace in the 1st half of this decade. The growth has slowed down significantly due to terrorism, WOT and internal law and order situation
5. India has made great strides in reducing poverty, hunger, slums etc. but is no where near the final desired situation
6. Pakistan has made great strides in reducing poverty, hunger, slums etc. but is no where near the final desired situation
7. Due to last 2-4 years of mess, Pakistan's economy has taken a major beating and required a bailout by IMF
8. Today India's economy is growing significantly faster than that of Pakistan and has managed to record impressive growth despite the global slowdown. Only second to China
9. Most composite Indices like WEF Global competitiveness, UN's HDR, WEF Financial Development rate India fairly higher than Pakistan where as Pakistan does perform better than India on individual factors like Road transport, % population below $1.25, child nourishment, per capita cloth usage and India on most economic indicators like GDP growth, per Capita GDP PPP, literacy rate, inflation, employment rate, industrial growth etc
10. Outlook for India at this time seems significantly better than Pakistan. Pakistan needs to get rid of its terrorist problem to get back on the horse..

 

[karan.1970]

With posts like these and 'Pakistan is a top ten failed state' I really don't expect the Indians to be complaining about Haq's posts - so stop.

Agno.. As I said earlier in this thread, you need to scroll back to see who started it.. Threads like these have a tendency to take a life of their own and generally go out of hand. I see this has dropped from 30 pages to 18 pages. Obviously a lot of deletion has gone in from the Mods. That should give us an idea what such comparison threads degenerate into..

 

[Hang em High]

Can't we just close this thread. Look comparing india and Pakistan juss like comparing mangoes and apples. we just cannot compare India with Pakistan or Pakistan with Nepal or Sri Lanka for that Matter. A better Comparison will be India and China or Pakistan and Sri Lanka or Indonesia

 

[faisaljaffery]

Pakistan is the land of opportunities and it has huge potential for investment. The only issue is security which Pakistani forces are trying to tackle. Pakistan has a very stretegic geographic location, our ports like Gwadar and Karachi are gateway to the europe. China being a 2nd biggest econmony of the world would use Pakistan's transit routes for its trade. Currently motorways are built to link these ports with China which once connected will result in economic prosperity for our country. Pakistan has worlds largest coal reserves which will be used for producing enegry. We have lots of Oil and gas reserves in Sindh and Balauchistan which are under progress of development and a day will come when Pakistan will be exporting the much needed oil to the westren nations Inshallah