Coercion Sabotage Or Incompetence :---

[BetterPakistan]

PAF each getting good total of 10-12 billion dollars the prime fighter thought was f-16s and J-10s as rafale was expensive/unproven and typhoon not available

$10-12 Bn was a huge amount.. How Musharraf was going to pay for it?? through the defence budget or something very secret in our budget known as "Contingent Liabilities"... Do you know who gets Contingent Liabilities budget and how it is used?? For 2016-17 Contingent Liabilities budget is 190 Bn.

PAF need to hurry up, even BD is talking about 50 pops of J10b induction from China. they don't have cash in hands, they just ambitious enough. A strategic move by China to counter balance India influence in BD.

I guess Su-35 deal isn't suiting Pakistan and I hope J-11B will be second choice of PAF. Do you the details of the deal between BD and China for 50 J-10s?

 

[IceCold]

was it a try to show the civilian posters of this board their okaat? Lemme tell you somthing Mr 100% ,securing a roll number in the military school doesn't make you something out of this cosmos---

Everyone has his own personal interests so , if I or anyone for that matter is not a part of the armed forces, this thing doesn't warrant you to ridicule others . like in the case of Mastan khan and other learned posters , When these ex-servicemen and their civilian bootlickers (in their quest for some "inside info" , so they could stand with a beam inside their necks among other posters) couldn't provide any satisfactory explanation as to why our airforce had failed miserably to procure the much needed weapons in a timely manner? besides the plethora of blunders it brushed away under the carpet, only come up with personal insults.

" how dare a car sales man point finger at us "

"he prolly might had been dropped out of the issb" and other bla bla bla -------

P:S not been a fan of airplanes but only choppers so never been to any air show let Alone applying for the air force . Do I like army ? Yes! But never applied there as well . After all one can serve the nation by sticking to his field of interest,no?

Well put. This holier than cow attitude needs to go for good. PAF today at best is a mere defensive force and you cannot win a war by remaining defensive all the time. Yes we are not soldiers nor ever applied to be but like you said there are other ways to serve our country and not just military. And while we have tremendous respect for people in Uniform, its high time the people in Uniform also start giving same respect to the civilians of this country. Today the backbone of PAF is a fighter which are prone to sanctions and which we cannot get anymore because of changing US priorities and neither are we entitled to upgrades that are offered to our adversary India. So I dont need to be a military person to see this, I just need a brain. With US and Indian interests aligning fast while ours are diverging, for how long do we intend to keep engaged with the US who continues to us the F-16 stick to black mail us?

 

[ziaulislam]

$10-12 Bn was a huge amount.. How Musharraf was going to pay for it?? through the defence budget or something very secret in our budget known as "Contingent Liabilities"... Do you know who gets Contingent Liabilities budget and how it is used?? For 2016-17 Contingent Liabilities budget is 190 Bn.



I guess Su-35 deal isn't suiting Pakistan and I hope J-11B will be second choice of PAF. Do you the details of the deal between BD and China for 50 J-10s?

i meant PA-army-Navy got total budget of around 10-12 biilion dollars
5 biilion dollars were just for single f-16 deal with another 1+ billion dollars for awecs, than there was subs, j-10s, f-22p, army procurements etc

 

[Readerdefence]

Pakistan get JF17 done, and India failed Tejas. PAF shall keep make progress to deter India's threats.


With Pakistan at west flank, BD at east flank, China at north and south flank. India is going no where.

I don't think BD at east flank may be a deterrent for Myanmar
As Hassina is in India and getting billions for procuring arms from India
So if India is lending money to BD why they going to buy from china

Hi,

Lagta hai keh aap bohat dukhi ho gaiay hein.

Listen young man---I am not here to defame pak military---and neither I do it---.

There are issues that the Pak air force has---and that is what I have brought up---and that is what I address---.

Hi MK you are very well versed with the knowledge and topic of Air Force
I hope you don't mind if I ask you to put up some solutions for new futures as
Whatever happen in past obviously you can't roll back but suggesting something
In this scenario you know what I mean keeping all options open will be helpful
For new members like me and the previous learned members who might want you
To give some suggestions forgetting the past
Hope you not get offended with my post
Thx

Russia agreed to sell engines for JF-17. they will also agree if we offer them, say, $ 2 million/jet. Now-a-days they only need money.

and i don't think /piece will cost more then $ 70 million. so i guess if we are for adding a new platform, why not in large number's ? so 5 Squadron's, yah. After-all, we Lack Medium weight and Heavy weight fighter's.



Atleast, she maintain her class.

Even china increase the order of su35 russia will agree to anything which
China want to supply to Pakistan as engine supply shouldn't be a problem
Coz if china is ordering su35 they must be having some back up plan for engines

 

[Mentee]

Well put. This holier than cow attitude needs to go for good. PAF today at best is a mere defensive force and you cannot win a war by remaining defensive all the time. Yes we are not soldiers nor ever applied to be but like you said there are other ways to serve our country and not just military. And while we have tremendous respect for people in Uniform, its high time the people in Uniform also start giving same respect to the civilians of this country. Today the backbone of PAF is a fighter which are prone to sanctions and which we cannot get anymore because of changing US priorities and neither are we entitled to upgrades that are offered to our adversary India. So I dont need to be a military person to see this, I just need a brain. With US and Indian interests aligning fast while ours are diverging, for how long do we intend to keep engaged with the US who continues to us the F-16 stick to black mail us?

even the use of f16's in an all out war between india and Pakistan is out of question.

Some might argue that the us wont be pleased to witness her manufactured aerial weapons falling out of the heavens by any Russian or French jets . But you never know what's cooking in the situation rooms of the pentagon .

Any Indian strike on Pak is going to be an indirect blessing for the u.s . Reason , in the contemporary scenario a meek Pakistan which is submissive to India serves the u.s interests better than ------- as for the use of nukes forget about them , we as a nation including the civil and military leadership don't want to die in a nuclear holocaust. let's call a spade a spade.

so in order to bell the cat once and for all , the u.s military is simply going to sabotage the paf's f16s avionics --------

they can latter come up with some feel good documentary on discovery channel that , how great America saved the world from a rogue nuclear state by hacking in to the u.s origin weapons provided to Pakistan .

So , by default we'd be left with some odd 75+ jf 17's for bvr engagements against the mammoth of an Indian air force .

 

[IceCold]

Some might argue that the us wont be pleased to witness her manufactured aerial weapons falling out of the heavens by any Russian or French jets . But you never know what's cooking in the situation rooms of the pentagon .

To such people i have only one question, Did the French not gave the collation the codes for Iraqi missiles rendering them uselessly against the allies during the Gulf war. Did this made others to stop buying from the French? It did not. Now whether US does the same or not can be debated but my question is why take the risk? Is such a risk worth taking where the security of your country is at stake.

 

[Mentee]

To such people i have only one question, Did the French not gave the collation the codes for Iraqi missiles rendering them uselessly against the allies during the Gulf war. Did this made others to stop buying from the French? It did not. Now whether US does the same or not can be debated but my question is why take the risk? Is such a risk worth taking where the security of your country is at stake.

and before the gulf war the French did the same by providing their nato ally Britain the source codes of exocet missiles in the Falkland's war with Argentina. But that dang Table which these ex servicemen-------- and their snobbish fanboys use as a touch stone to evaluate the capabilities of a weapon platform doesn't allow anything to be placed on it other than more f16's and some green cards

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

PAF need to hurry up, even BD is talking about 50 pops of J10b induction from China. they don't have cash in hands, they just ambitious enough. A strategic move by China to counter balance India influence in BD.

So China is giving 50 J-10b to Bangladesh free of cost while Pakistan is not even willing to take free of cost J-10b- I would say do It anyway- Just dump 100 J-10b in Pakistan free of costs-

 

[BetterPakistan]

i meant PA-army-Navy got total budget of around 10-12 biilion dollars
5 biilion dollars were just for single f-16 deal with another 1+ billion dollars for awecs, than there was subs, j-10s, f-22p, army procurements etc

any idea about Contingent Liabilities budget?

 

[el nino]

Theres no sabotage or incompetence

Its simple economics

Trying to match or build an air force that can match india,s is impossible

[Pakistan spends $9 billion per year on its military & indian spends $50 billion.

THERES ONLY ONE WINNER today AND tommrow

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Sir i do respect you and other seniors with experience and knowledge ... i also think Mastan Khan is not entierly correct but he is not entierly wrong ...

We as follow Pakistani need an explanation ... we could have force US to release aircraft promissed earlier for which they already had the funds ...

At that time we could have even gone for f15s ... while india was making deal for 272 MKIs and tejas program ... we went for thunders only which is a great program but can counter tejas and migs and mirrages within borders only whereas we have not a single proper response against MKI ... f16s are good but limited by numbers future upgrades and restriction ...



So we expect better explanation from seniors who have better knowledge and vision ... furthermore it is never too late for accepting mistakes as they are part of life ... we still love PAF ... we always will

There is a lot more to Pakistani Offensive strategy (which everyone seems to be concerned about) than just long range twin engined aircraft. In the day of Stand Office Weapons, the core air force is structured as a network centric arm of the larger conventional and strategic forces at large, with duty to protect Pakistani Air Space from first wave and second wave attack, and to interdict the enemy trying to achieve air dominance. This argument of F16s and no F16s is a childish and pedestrian one. Anything said here, you take it as civilian vs. military, or retired military not clearing the table. You guys are expert of your fields, and we are experts of ours. It is not jus the matter of "brain" as you may have a lot more of it, but you dont have the training and experience of our field, just as we dont have exposure to yours. I will not indulge in this, but suffice to say, the Defence of the country is in safe hands, and you do sleep peacefully as PAF is awake and vigilant, and well equipped (and equipping) to defend the skies of Pakistan. Don't believe the tirades, the propaganda, the false flag depressive statements.

 

[MastanKhan]

Ustad ji are you kidding?

They are busy filling offshore accounts, passports for their family, grabbing prime land etc

It's nothing more than a giant ponzi scheme.

Pakistan we believed in is lost.

Do not expect rational decisions from PAF or Islam's greatest fauj.

When no one is held accountable for their actions..what else do you expect?

Memo gate, R Davis, ISI choosing and propping politicians, commissions, gin & tonic, Dubai nights etc



Sahab it was a mistake. Just like the Jernail you are fond off admitted to many (NRO just an example) Destroyed the future of this country. But it wasnt him only.

Pakistani demands:
1) Jernails
2) Politicians
3) Business groups
Sub group
1) Buri kats
2) Judges

Give "us" printed $.
Nationality.

Take whatever you want in return.

We just gonna admit our mistakes later.

Lets have some fun.

Hi,

Thank you for these comments---. Puts a stake right thru the heart---.

 

[ziaulislam]

$10-12 Bn was a huge amount.. How Musharraf was going to pay for it???

tell that to mastan sahab
we went through all those deals , he thinks we had more than that
and paid for them with exception for f-16 deal which was reduced to 3 billion dollars from 5

total acquisitions during that brief period still reaches to approx 8 billion dollars

 

[帅的一匹]

So China is giving 50 J-10b to Bangladesh free of cost while Pakistan is not even willing to take free of cost J-10b- I would say do It anyway- Just dump 100 J-10b in Pakistan free of costs-

Around 45 millions USD per, paid back 5 to 10 years. It's not free.

But at very excellent discount.

There is a lot more to Pakistani Offensive strategy (which everyone seems to be concerned about) than just long range twin engined aircraft. In the day of Stand Office Weapons, the core air force is structured as a network centric arm of the larger conventional and strategic forces at large, with duty to protect Pakistani Air Space from first wave and second wave attack, and to interdict the enemy trying to achieve air dominance. This argument of F16s and no F16s is a childish and pedestrian one. Anything said here, you take it as civilian vs. military, or retired military not clearing the table. You guys are expert of your fields, and we are experts of ours. It is not jus the matter of "brain" as you may have a lot more of it, but you dont have the training and experience of our field, just as we dont have exposure to yours. I will not indulge in this, but suffice to say, the Defence of the country is in safe hands, and you do sleep peacefully as PAF is awake and vigilant, and well equipped (and equipping) to defend the skies of Pakistan. Don't believe the tirades, the propaganda, the false flag depressive statements.

A airforce don't have twin engine fighters doesn't have offensive strategy. Go for Su35 or J16. Chinese old saying: a good medicine tastes bitter.

Twin engine means longer range, bigger payload, longer duration. That's all you need to play offensive strategy.

 

[帅的一匹]

It doesn't make sense to get a spear without gunpoint.

For me, J10/JF17/F16 is only for national air defense, Su35/J16/J20 is for playing offensive strategy.

You need twin engine fighter especially when you operate on the high sea to run anti-ship missile. PAF doesn't have platform to run anti-ship mission, what if the threats is coming form enemy's CBG? Subs along won't do the magic.

F16 has 900KM combat radius while J16 has 1500KM.

J16 can carry heavy type of YJ12 supersonic ASM , CJ10 cruise missile and YJ62 sub sonic ASM. F16 can only carry medium weight ASM. With J16 at hands, PAF can attack India CBG from multi directions.

J16 also can carry PL15 VLRBVRAAM, targeting enemy's AWACS and Refuling aircraft. With J16D you can run SEAD much more easily.

For PAF, J16 means much more than J10b/c does.

I think J16 also can deliver nuclear bomb.

PAF will consider J16 cause they like the number 16?