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COAS, General Qamar Javed Bajwa, endorsed punishment to 2 Army and 1 civilian office for treason.

Sir HT having agenda is of creation of Muslim khilafat and their views contradict when they try to impose their ideas force fully. The Pak people in majority are moderate and you can't use majority of them for your hard core ideas, same happened when a Brigadier in the past got influenced by HT and tried to go for treason. Then HT was banned in Pakistan. However Ikhwan Al Muslamin is working under different circumstances there peaceful members have shed their lives in hundreds. The Arab countries especially Egypt is facing attacks against their forces due to unjust removal of pro Muslim Govt by Alcoholic Sisi and oppressive regimes. If some one likes it or not Islam has given full rights to Muslims to do jihad against oppression.

On the other hand it is no secret that CIA and many intelligence agencies cooperate with religious organisations till they fulfill their requirements. But don't know how above discussion is related to the bastards who have been caught by Army for spying.

Hizb ut Tahrir are violent Takfiris who are even more extreme than most Salafis. They have been trying unsuccessfully to overthrow CARs like Uzbekistan. Although they declare themselves Salafis, they are more like Khawarij in ideology as they declare everyone who doesn’t agree with them as Kuffar. There are many in the West among converts and second/third gen immigrants.

They are vehemently anti-Pakistan as well. They have many followers in India and Bangladesh to push their anti-Pakistan ideology.

As for Muslim brotherhood, they are not angels either. They similarly are big opponents of Pakistan (besides Egyptian branch and Hamas,) and are pro-Indian.

I know many of their leaders here in US. They are basically Arab supremacists masquerading as a religious group. The mess in Syria and Libya is due primarily because of them. They tend to have close relationship with the US.
 
You're just performing your patriotic duty as became quite clear with your conversations trying to shut up R Wing. I've lived in Pakistan and seen live spies, in some cases my neighbors. And your so called intelligence apparatus did diddly squat. Filled with traitors trying to protect the system by which these traitors are sustained - visits to the US and UK were they are cultivated. as long as "training" in these countries is not banned, the military establishment is itself colluding with foreign powers to betray Pakistan. That is clear to anybody with an independent mind.
how would banning foreign training stop a guy from going to foreigners with intel in exchange for something he wants? kinda like what happened with the col. who gave up OBL. its our inherent flaw as a nation to go for most shallow, emotional and knee jerk reactions.
 
how would banning foreign training stop a guy from going to foreigners with intel in exchange for something he wants? kinda like what happened with the col. who gave up OBL. its our inherent flaw as a nation to go for most shallow, emotional and knee jerk reactions.

That is because you are doing your own little shallow, emotional and knee jerk reaction. Those of us who has seen these things first hand, know that such traitors don't just spring out of the ground and show up at a US embassy. They are cultivated very carefully, and vast majority of them are converted on their trips to the West.

The US has a specialized program for this, and engineers everything to the detail, including putting good looking people, and placing visiting officers in very specific settings. There is much more I can say, but hey, what's the purpose in talking to a shallow and emotional response?
 
That is because you are doing your own little shallow, emotional and knee jerk reaction. Those of us who has seen these things first hand, know that such traitors don't just spring out of the ground and show up at a US embassy. They are cultivated very carefully, and vast majority of them are converted on their trips to the West.

The US has a specialized program for this, and engineers everything to the detail, including putting good looking people, and placing visiting officers in very specific settings. There is much more I can say, but hey, what's the purpose in talking to a shallow and emotional response?
dont be a fragile snowflake. think of the implications of what you are suggesting. shutting off training venues will only decrease capabilities. i know guys like you have a hard on for china turkey etc but they aren't one stop shop for all our defense needs. diversification is always better in these cases.
 
dont be a fragile snowflake. think of the implications of what you are suggesting. shutting off training venues will only decrease capabilities. i know guys like you have a hard on for china turkey etc but they aren't one stop shop for all our defense needs. diversification is always better in these cases.

Looks like you couldn't take the shallow, emotional, knee jerk comment. I'll let you wail in the wilderness as I don't really care.
 
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khaal khench lo unki . put their family behind bars too .

The officers should be executed and all previlages and perks removed from their families - all wealth accumulated should taken away from them too. It’s not unreasonable- if the army can seize land from the poor to make these DHA societies, surely doing this to the traitors shouldn’t be so difficult

Deep concerns over such black sheep.

Exactly...because we don’t know how much sensitive intel has been passed on to the enemy and what steps they have taken to hurt us.

I think it’s time we stopped sending our soldiers to western military academies. There is a danger where they will be tapped up by western intelligence agencies or blackmailed by the honeytrap.

The Lt Gen was on USD4000 and the Brigadier was on USD1700 per month stipend of the CIA

That’s an insult!
 
Just punishing these individuals is not enough. This is an institutional problem and needs to be dealt with proper changes in rules and regulations. This should include:
1. Severely curtailing all officer training to the US, UK, Australia, Canada.
2. Making it mandatory for senior officers after retirement to not be able to go abroad
3. Making it mandatory for families of senior officers from going for studies or other reasons to the West.

Without such changes, Pakistan's national security cannot be protected. These are the few that got caught. And no, spies and traitors don't use whatsapp to say "we are about to leak information". They have their own secure channels and handlers. If serious action is not taken, it only shows that the leadership is full of traitors itself.
Sounds personal here...care to share?! :pop:
 
The officers should be executed and all previlages and perks removed from their families - all wealth accumulated should taken away from them too. It’s not unreasonable- if the army can seize land from the poor to make these DHA societies, surely doing this to the traitors shouldn’t be so difficult



Exactly...because we don’t know how much sensitive intel has been passed on to the enemy and what steps they have taken to hurt us.

I think it’s time we stopped sending our soldiers to western military academies. There is a danger where they will be tapped up by western intelligence agencies or blackmailed by the honeytrap.



That’s an insult!
Thats what happens after court martial.
No more facilities,medical,pensions etc.
 
SIU is the main informant formation for all activities of Major Generals and Lt. Generals during their tenure on Command and Staff positions. This formation is also responsible for reports which form the basis of promotions from Maj General to Lt General. And it also provides intel which helps MS Dte assign postings.


During surveillance, protocols do not allow information to be leaked, but for proof arrests could occur during the activity of leaking information. However, generally whats seen is that arrests happen before information is leaked. Proof is shown in the form of internet emails, chats etc, then videos captured during surveillance and voice recordings over phones. These are enough to arrest the accused.


Officers of all ranks are sent to all of the above mentioned countries for different courses which determine the tenure. Families are allowed to go on self funded trips if tenure is more than 3 months. Some tenures last 3-4 years even depending upon deputation. Its necessary to send to all countries due to military ties, nature of courses, education and training.

I still think the potential damage done is greater. It is pretty clear where these countries stand when France and the US (and therefore their lackeys in the UK) openly endorsed India's naked aggression and act of war during the Balakot "strike." We should get some different/opposing doctrinal views into our strategic thinking by sending top officers to China, Iran, Turkey, Russia, etc.

Mate

I am not egoistic, as you can see in the other thread(LY-80), one Mod pointed out that R-Wing and I should stop, and i stopped. so that is a proof that I am not trying to shut up R-Wing or anybody for that matter .
I am neither an insecure personality so let me make it my last reply to you in this thread. I am very confident about what i post as i know what i am saying.

While you have spent your life in Pakistan, I have spent life in Pakistani Military Institution. I wouldn't want to divulge anymore, as Admins and Mods know my background clearly.

Have a nice day, cheers.

We both are fighting for the same goal with slightly different approaches. I will continue to push for our Army to deal with all traitors --- civ and mil --- with an iron hand.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. I salute Gen. Bajwa for doing this! Time to hang the political / economic terrorists and traitors too!
 
Mate you can differ all you want, but Military has a set method of surveillance and monitoring that is in place for all ranks that go abroad for UN Missions, Training, courses, command, as instructors even. This is done because Pakistan Military is trained to fight all types of missions with any kind of ally. Training at home or abroad is also a testament to it. Every contingent of troops sent abroad has an Intel section sent along with them. That Intel section is responsible for daily reporting of movement, contacts, calls, conversations etc of all personnel in that contingent. The officers sent individually (with or w/o families) for courses, training, education etc have another form of surveillance conducted on them in that country by Pak Intel wings. This is also true for engineers, scientists, research fellows etc from Pakistan Govts research Departments. No one is safe. What you are suggesting is counter productive and a natural reaction since you and other members here are not aware of many processes which goes in intel depts and military by itself.

As for patriotic duty, If i am replying so many posts, maybe i know a thing or two.

We have officers and cadets who excel abroad, because they are fine gentlemen and have been trained by the best. This section is filled with achievements of our officers and cadets serving abroad.

I have always criticized this 'suckling of the foreign teat' and will continue to do so. Our soldiers need foreign training because we do not have a culture of creativity, research, and independent thinking. We are net consumers of knowledge, we don't generate new knowledge. Hence, we are forever subservient to knowledge economies that generate new knowledge. This is a problem of mindset in our top brass. The inability to continually modernize without foreign assistance is the hallmark of mediocrity. In any organization, mediocrity breeds because of leaders. There are a couple of ways such leaders perpetrate their crime:

1. Highly intelligent leaders, who need intellectually stunted yesmen to do their bidding. These leaders favor personal gratification over the organization's success. Their petty, selfish concerns sit above the organization's long term interests. These leaders are unable to create agile, high performance, world beating organizations that produce new knowledge, set new precedents, and lead the industry through innovation.

2. Mediocre leaders, who recognize the need for intelligent people, and keep them pressurized and overworked so intelligent workers never achieve leadership roles. These organizations basically suck the blood out of talent, and when they are done, they show the door to their workers.

3. Mediocre leaders, who recognize the need for intelligent people, and create a space for them to achieve their goals, but still never achieve leadership. These leaders are able to sustain their market share. Their products don't set benchmarks for creativity, yet hold their own against competition. Such organizations are not slated for greatness and leadership.

The other cases of highly intelligent leaders who nurture highly intelligent talent, and mediocre leaders nurturing mediocre talent are self-evident.

I place Pak Army as mediocre leaders with a servile attitude, who are intellectually subservient to foreign knowledge economies, and look up to them in order to learn new ideas and knowledge. They create a space for talent to excel, but this excellence is limited to reproducing the knowledge acquired from knowledge economies. And herein lies the root cause of Pakistan's backwardness. Until and unless we rise to the level where we generate new knowledge, we shall remain servants, poor, and get ridiculed by those who control us through these mediocre leaders.
 
Pakistan general gets life for spying

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48472238
_107179093_9b97d6cf-985e-477e-88df-dd4bc8764999.jpg
Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionPakistan's army chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa (R) endorsed the sentences
A Pakistani general has been sentenced to life for spying by a military court that also gave death sentences to a brigadier and a civil officer.

The trio were charged with espionage and leaking "sensitive information to foreign agencies", Pakistan's army said.

It added that Army Chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa "endorsed" their sentences.

The army did not reveal who they were convicted of spying for or what information was shared.

However most observers would naturally point to the CIA, says the BBC's M Ilyas Khan in Islamabad. The US and Pakistan have a long history of military co-operation and officers come into frequent contact, he says.

Lieutenant General Javed Iqbal (retired) will serve 14 years of "rigorous imprisonment" - a life term in Pakistan. It is rare for someone of such a senior rank to be convicted of spying in Pakistan, correspondents say.

Lt Gen Iqbal held key positions in the military during his active service, including director-general of military operations, which is responsible for planning and executing all operations inside and outside of Pakistan.


He also held the post of adjutant-general, who supervises discipline and accountability within the forces.

Brigadier Raja Rizwan (retired) was given a death sentence, as was Wasim Akram, a doctor who worked for a "sensitive" organisation which has not been named.

It is not clear if officers above the rank of brigadier have in the past been convicted of spying for another country, but some senior officials have been convicted either for planning military takeovers or for links to militant groups.

Pakistan's army has its own court system and those convicted are able to appeal.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48472238
 

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