COAS arrives in Saudi Arabia for two day official visit

[Farah Sohail]

When you engage with a country you talk to its leadership, the ones who hold the power to make the decisions. In this case the Sauds. It is important to keep our prejudices aside in diplomacy. Who runs KSA is none of our business. It is upto people of KSA to decide and they seem in no mood to replace Sauds. So we talk to them.

As far whether Saudis have the right or not to tell us whom we conduct business with, well nations press others all the time on such matters. Don't we ask Afghanistan to move away from India? Why we have to be so disturbed by what they say? For their diplomatic right to say (just say) that we become hostile to Iran, we have more powerful right to decide what is best for us. Did we get hostile to Iran? Are we not doing business with Russia which is enemy to KSA?

As far striking balance between Iran and KSA, well we are much more friendly to Iran than Iran is to us. Despite our overtures Iran has acted against Pakistan's interest on multiple occasions. They have funded and supported anti-Pakistan factions in Afghanistan, embarrassed us on World Forum by revealing nuclear cooperation, housed Indians close to our borders, shelled our villages and soldiers and stood silent when we were sanctioned. All in contrast to what KSA had done. So as far balance, I think we are somewhat too nice to Iran. Iran has to reciprocate our friendly gestures and stop hurting our national interests.

In the nutshell stop mixing emotions with diplomacy. We need to wise up and see the things as they are not as we want them to be.

People will not be happy unless we make an enemy out of Saudi Arabia for no good reason... Pak must retain its influence in Arab countries.. Diplomatically..its very important... Also, We cant afford to see all arab countries destabilised, which most if them already is.. Also, we CANNOT see Saudi arabia destablised.. They have Makkah Madina.. All hell will break loose if Saudi Arabia gets destablised.. And this is exactly what western powers want.. They are destablising all Muslim countries, one by one, esp in Middle east.. Thankfully, Pak is getting out of mess and in the process of getting stablised.. We must ensure, tht Saudi Arabia doesnt go Syria or Iraq way.., and do whatever we can, confined within our own complexities and ground realities, to make sure tht Saudi Arabia isnt destablised..

 

[Djinn]

When you engage with a country you talk to its leadership, the ones who hold the power to make the decisions. In this case the Sauds. It is important to keep our prejudices aside in diplomacy. Who runs KSA is none of our business. It is upto people of KSA to decide and they seem in no mood to replace Sauds. So we talk to them.

Firstly, the question was about Protecting the Monarchy. Secondly, Saudi intervention in Pakistani internal affairs is an open secret so no need to go into details.

As far whether Saudis have the right or not to tell us whom we conduct business with, well nations press others all the time on such matters. Don't we ask Afghanistan to move away from India? Why we have to be so disturbed by what they say? For their diplomatic right to say (just say) that we become hostile to Iran, we have more powerful right to decide what is best for us. Did we get hostile to Iran? Are we not doing business with Russia which is enemy to KSA?

Saudis didnt want Pakistan to go ahead with Iran Pakistan gas pipeline and this remains in limbo.

As far striking balance between Iran and KSA, well we are much more friendly to Iran than Iran is to us. Despite our overtures Iran has acted against Pakistan's interest on multiple occasions. They have funded and supported anti-Pakistan factions in Afghanistan, embarrassed us on World Forum by revealing nuclear cooperation, housed Indians close to our borders, shelled our villages and soldiers and stood silent when we were sanctioned. All in contrast to what KSA had done. So as far balance, I think we are somewhat too nice to Iran. Iran has to reciprocate our friendly gestures and stop hurting our national interests.

Point was it's not about Iran. Iran is our neighbour while Saudis are not. Geographic proximity is a crucial factor in relations that cant be ignored. Again why Iran has to be discussed when Pak-Saudi relations are evaluated?

In the nutshell stop mixing emotions with diplomacy. We need to wise up and see the things as they are not as we want them to be.

Bottom line: There are no permanent friends and enemies in International relations. We need to come out of Muslim Ummah delusions and do what serves our national interests best.

 

[shah1398]

The obvious doesn't need to be stated. Gen Raheel's visit to KSA is a reflection of Pakistan's uncanny allegiance to the house of Saud, which always has been counter productive for Pakistan. Are you talking about the same GCC states which are consolidating relations with India, but hey guess what........We aren't allowed to have relations with their enemies. Pakistani relations with the Arab world are mostly one sided and sooner Pakistani establishment realise this the better it will be for PAKISTAN and not UMMAH.

The time of taking sides is over. We would do what is best suited for us. While we are consolidating our relations with GCC at the same time we are going ahead with IP pipe line. We will say No to whatever is counterproductive for us and go for what is good for us.

Are you talking about the same GCC states which are consolidating relations with India

Arent we consolidating ties with Russia and Iran? Its a game of interests and we have to do what is good for us.

Pakistani relations with the Arab world are mostly one sided and sooner Pakistani establishment realise this the better it will be for PAKISTAN and not UMMAH.

So U are saying that we should say tata bye bye to GCC?

Yes.. Ppl want tht we make enemies out of Saudi Arabia, for no reason... Ppl want tht we forget our decades old relationship with Saudis..and for what? For ties with Iran, when iran is already closer to India.. I dont say tht we shouldnt have good ties with Iran..we should have good ties with them too..but ppl wanting tht we just throw away our relationship with Saudis and GCC, just because we want closer ties with Iran..tht i cant understand....When its the same Arabas tht have supported us, in our hour of need... When world had sanctioned us, its the same saudis tht helped us financially after our nuclear tests.. And what did Iran do? Yes Iran leaked rightly or wrongly, tht Pak gave them nuclear info, landing our nuclear prog in trouble.. Even if Pak did actually have a part to play, or not..whether its right or wrong..both ways.. Iran made our nuclear prog unsafe.. And again few days ago, some of their leader publicly announced, tht Pak helped them...giving unnecessary negative publicity to our nuclear prog and they know it very well... So only on nuclear issue, we can see difference of reaction of both countries... Still i say.. Iran is our neighbour and we need to have cordial ties with them too
And those who keep saying tht look at how our workers are treated in Saudi Arabia... My uncle is a doctor in saudi arabia...... And have some other relatives in family.. No particular complain from them.. If you want to talk of laborers then, they are treated bad even in Pak... Also.. Just compare number of Pakistanis in Saudi Arabia and then compare it with Iran.. Atleast .saudis and gcc has large number of Pakistanis there, whereas comparatively number of Pakistanis in Iran are minimal

Exactly.Time of taking definite sides is gone. We have to play smart and have good relations with all major players in the region. Many people totally ignore the fact that KSA is the biggest contributor of Foreign Remittance and one of the biggest job market for Pakistanis.

 

[Djinn]

The time of taking sides is over. We would do what is best suited for us. While we are consolidating our relations with GCC at the same time we are going ahead with IP pipe line. We will say No to whatever is counterproductive for us and go for what is good for us.

IP project should have been operational by now, So yes we are not working for our interests

Arent we consolidating ties with Russia and Iran? Its a game of interests and we have to do what is good for us.

Russia and Iran are not good examples. How about we go for relations with Israel and then see, how our Arab bro's like that.

So U are saying that we should say tata bye bye to GCC?

We don't have to subordinate our interests to their ego's that's all. The reaction when Pakistan refused to join their unholy crusade says all about how much they RESPECT us.

 

[shah1398]

IP project should have been operational by now, So yes we are not working for our interests

It was not bcz of GCC but bcz of sanctions on Iran.Plz dont mince facts.

 

[Djinn]

It was not bcz of GCC but bcz of sanctions on Iran.Plz dont mince facts.

I am referring to Saudi's efforts to lure Pakistan away. Kindly stay in touch with facts.

 

[shah1398]

Russia and Iran are not good examples. How about we go for relations with Israel and then see, how our Arab bro's like that.

When not a single guy in Pakistan is willing to shake hand with Israel, then how come You can go ahead with it? GCC comes later but first U have to tame your own people for this.

I am referring to Saudi's efforts to lure Pakistan away. Kindly stay in touch with facts.

So then why are we going ahead with it now? They would try what they like but do we submit to that now is the important question.

 

[Djinn]

When not a single guy in Pakistan is willing to shake hand with Israel, then how come You can go ahead with it? GCC comes later but first U have to tame your own people for this.

The topic of Israel has been debated to depth and i assure you that your figures of approval are highly misplaced.

So then why are we going ahead with it now? They would try what they like but do we submit to that now is the important question.

When it will be completed then we will see. It has been stalled so far to please Saudis and this remains a fact.

 

[shah1398]

We don't have to subordinate our interests to their ego's that's all. The reaction when Pakistan refused to join their unholy crusade says all about how much they RESPECT us.

What did U expect that should they have been showered us with flowers for that? It was the very first time Pakistan had said No a major power in the region and bcz of that stature of Pakistan in international community has risen alot.

The topic of Israel has been debated to depth and i assure you that your figures of approval are highly misplaced.

Yes. Few politicians sitting together and planning.They do not make the whole Nation n nor reflect the sentiments of it.

 

[Djinn]

What did U expect that should they have been showered us with flowers for that? It was the very first time Pakistan had said No a major power in the region and bcz of that stature of Pakistan in international community has risen alot.

Firstly they are not even remotely close to what you call a power. Secondly they don't own Pakistan.

Yes. Few politicians sitting together and planning.They do not make the whole Nation n nor reflect the sentiments of it.

Isn't that the truth and can be applied on KSA case as well.

 

[shah1398]

When it will be completed then we will see. It has been stalled so far to please Saudis and this remains a fact.

If India can have good relations with all GCC and Iran then why cant we? It all about diplomacy n how effective it is. We are talking about the present scenario and this project is very much kicking ahead.

Firstly they are not even remotely close to what you call a power. Secondly they don't own Pakistan.

They have a big say in whole GCC in particular and region in general. If U are undermining them then its your own opinion, not of everyone.

 

[Djinn]

If India can have good relations with all GCC and Iran then why cant we? It all about diplomacy n how effective it is. We are talking about the present scenario and this project is very much kicking ahead.

Put it this way? If Arab world can have relations with our enemies then why cant we have with theirs. The project was also "kicking ahead " during previous governments tenure, but nothing has come out of it so far.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

People will not be happy unless we make an enemy out of Saudi Arabia for no good reason... Pak must retain its influence in Arab countries.. Diplomatically..its very important... Also, We cant afford to see all arab countries destabilised, which most if them already is.. Also, we CANNOT see Saudi arabia destablised.. They have Makkah Madina.. All hell will break loose if Saudi Arabia gets destablised.. And this is exactly what western powers want.. They are destablising all Muslim countries, one by one, esp in Middle east.. Thankfully, Pak is getting out of mess and in the process of getting stablised.. We must ensure, tht Saudi Arabia doesnt go Syria or Iraq way.., and do whatever we can, confined within our own complexities and ground realities, to make sure tht Saudi Arabia isnt destablised..

And how "Thankfully" Pakistan is getting out of so called "Mess?" And what was the "Mess?" Care to elaborate?

Once you do, you will eventually figure out where it all emanated from or most of it and how we are getting out of it. Answer to your observations lies there.

I think the sooner the better that we get out of this hangover of ours over "Brotherly" countries -- KSA nor Iran are brotherly countries. They just have interests, convergent or divergent.

We did right not to get involved in Yemen even though the payouts would have been huge if we did!!

Most Arabs nations are still based upon tribal societies -- and mentally they think like one too, still. Long memories!! Don't want Yemenis gunning for us too. We have our won "Brotherly" Osama's, Zehweri's, Al Libby's etc.!!! Where did they come from Ethiopia, no Kenya? They all were exported to us from our "Brothers" with love!

The very fabric of a tolerant modern Pakistan was turned into an intolerant fundo style, in front of our eyes--in our lifetime, society by our brethren and funds from Sands of Arabia.

You need to figure out what is our priority and who is our friend if there are any. Our priority should be Pakistan and the tolerant society that we were once, there are no permanent friends or enemies in this world. There are only convergent or divergent interests - based upon this principal one chooses ones enemies and ones friends.

We have served masters from the west, we have tolerated sowing of hatred in our country from the east and rape of religious tolerance, and now we are going to serve the masters from the north. I wish for once in our lifetime we serve what we know as Pakistan!!!

Have you ever thought why Taliban's don't operate in UAE where getting hold of "Gora" and beheading him is just a walk to the local mall away? Or hitting the West where it hurts the most by just blowing up couple of oil tankers in the Gulf and you will bring some sense into the west pretty quick. But alas, no, taking the hard route, fighting them in the mountains of far away Afghanistan, Pakistan, arid deserts and shores of Somalia, Yemen is a more doable and desirable thingie!!! Keep our crazies and easy canon fodders away from our shores. Pay them off and keep them busy to finger whomsoever we want fingered.

Do take some time out to figure out who is behind Baluchistans' instability? Besides the usual suspects, you will be surprised to know that at least two of our "Brotherly" nations are also eagerly standing in the line - for different reasons!

My friend it is time to wake up and smell the coffee and realize where our salvation lies -- in Pakistan and no where else.

 

[shah1398]

Isn't that the truth and can be applied on KSA case as well.

Seems U dont have iota of info what majority of Pakistanis in general think about KSA.

 

[Djinn]

They have a big say in whole GCC in particular and region in general. If U are undermining them then its your own opinion, not of everyone.

If you think that because they have oil they can dictate us then that's your opinion.