'CIA doctor' accused of treason

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

So may I assume that you agree with the killing of Al-Awlaki and Samir Khan as traitors to the nation they swore an oath of allegiance to? If you are not a US national already, and one day you become one, please remember this.

Assalam alaikum

Anyone who is born american does he have to take an oath coz al-awlaki was born american as i heard

TARIQ

 

[Awesome]

CIA director at the time, Leon Panetta should be accused of war crimes as well for targeting Pakistani kids

 

[Jango]

CIA director at the time, Leon Panetta should be accused of war crimes as well for targeting Pakistani kids

George Bush, Tony Blair, and what not, you name it.

 

[Solomon2]

He is a traitor because he told cia and not pakistan army about it. Death is least punishment for him.

Who betrayed whom? Who is choosing to let terrorists blow up Pakistanis rather than wipe them out by going after their sanctuaries? Who is letting the rule-of-law decay into rule-by-law? Who, but the Pakistani Army itself? Complaints about all politicians being useless don't hold water when the mavericks are assassinated due to deliberately poor security, ideological encouragement, or inadequate police training and equipment to investigate and solve deadly events.

A doctor is supposed to help his patients. Don't you suppose the greatest service he did for the greatest number of Pakistanis was to help off a master terrorist? So shouldn't the question be, "Why doesn't Pakistan give him a medal?" rather than "Why don't we prosecute him for treason?"

Unless, of course, that's what Pakistan's military leaders want - to screw the people in favor of their own corrupt and imperial agendas.

To betray your nations appointed government is a crime.

"Appointed"? America's Founding Fathers rebelled against "appointed" governors. The signers of the Declaration of Independence became hunted men. They committed a "crime" - but it wasn't a sin, for as they argued the King had lost a legitimate claim to their loyalty:

...The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance...
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people...
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise...
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers...
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone...
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people...
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws...
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us: For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit...
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government...
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people...
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us...​

Sound familiar?

Do you care to remember 1971? The West Pakistani leaders of the P.A. were just as outraged at Bangladeshi leaders who decried West Pakistani rule then as you are at this doctor now. The P.A. unleashed bloody terror in response. Do you condemn the hundreds of millions of Bangladeshis who followed their leaders into independence as "traitors", too?

 

[Awesome]

George Bush, Tony Blair, and what not, you name it.

For that crime, Leon Panetta and Obama would do.

 

[Solomon2]

We are not monsters we believe in justice but if he proved guilty we will show no mercy

Do you want to try that again?

 

[Awesome]

Who betrayed whom? Who is choosing to let terrorists blow up Pakistanis rather than wipe them out by going after their sanctuaries? Who is letting the rule-of-law decay into rule-by-law? Who, but the Pakistani Army itself? Complaints about all politicians being useless don't hold water when the mavericks are assassinated due to deliberately poor security, ideological encouragement, or inadequate police training and equipment to investigate and solve deadly events.

A doctor is supposed to help his patients. Don't you suppose the greatest service he did for the greatest number of Pakistanis was to help off a master terrorist? So shouldn't the question be, "Why doesn't Pakistan give him a medal?" rather than "Why don't we prosecute him for treason?"

Unless, of course, that's what Pakistan's military leaders want - to screw the people in favor of their own corrupt and imperial agendas.

"Appointed"? America's Founding Fathers rebelled against "appointed" governors. The signers of the Declaration of Independence became hunted men. They committed a "crime" - but it wasn't a sin, for as they argued the King had lost a legitimate claim to their loyalty:

...The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance...
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people...
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise...
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers...
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone...
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people...
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws...
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us: For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit...
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government...
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people...
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us...​

Sound familiar?

Do you care to remember 1971? The West Pakistani leaders of the P.A. were just as outraged at Bangladeshi leaders who decried West Pakistani rule then as you are at this doctor now. The P.A. unleashed bloody terror in response. Do you condemn the hundreds of millions of Bangladeshis who followed their leaders into independence as "traitors", too?

A He did it for money
B He could have come to the Pakistani authorities too
C He was paid money to go and endanger Pakistani kids, poke them with needles by CIA. He's not a doctor who happened to have come across the knowledge of Osama and chose to help the CIA instead of the Pakistani authorities.

 

[karan.1970]

That is for the courts to decide. I think the fake vaccine program that he ran to get OBL's DNA was secret information.

Yes, the CIA is officially being hosted by Pakistan, but it belongs to a country that has listed the Pakistani ISI as a terrrorist organization in Guantanamo cables.

Running Fake vaccine program should result in him getting charged with willful endangerment of life at best or medical fraud.. Not treason or sharing secret information.

The reason I am belaboring this point is that for a charge of sharing secret information, some national authority has to declare the information as secret.. I am wondering which national authority in Pakistan classified OBL's residence address or his DNA as an official secret which this doctor leaked to CIA...

On CIA and listing of ISI as terror outfit... I understand the pain, but unless Pakistani govt declares CIA as a hostile entity, it still is a friendly organization, irrespective of individual feelings..

 

[Jango]

For that crime, Leon Panetta and Obama would do.

Nah, Obama got the Nobel PEACE prize

 

[karan.1970]

I think this is the problem that he created that I do not agree with, since innocent children will pay the price in avoidable suffering due to the paranoia of their poorly educated parents. This is wrong.

Which I agree to as well.. Hang him for willful endangerment of life or even mass murder, but treason seems too fishy

---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------

CIA director at the time, Leon Panetta should be accused of war crimes as well for targeting Pakistani kids

Proof / Evidence ???

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Helping to find and kill the most wanted terrorist of the world = ghaddari?

The legal question is not one of 'what did he help to do', but of 'how he did it'. The US of all nations should understand the legal rationale behind charging him with treason.

Just because someone has 'good intentions' is not justification for breaking the law.

 

[Jango]

Running Fake vaccine program should result in him getting charged with willful endangerment of life at best or medical fraud.. Not treason or sharing secret information.

The reason I am belaboring this point is that for a charge of sharing secret information, some national authority has to declare the information as secret.. I am wondering which national authority in Pakistan classified OBL's residence address or his DNA as an official secret which this doctor leaked to CIA...

On CIA and listing of ISI as terror outfit... I understand the pain, but unless Pakistani govt declares CIA as a hostile entity, it still is a friendly organization, irrespective of individual feelings..

He was working for a foreign intelligence agency in Pakistan, without the knowledge of the ISI( double agent), and put lives in danger, and possibly, the after effects might become visible after some years.

---------- Post added at 06:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 PM ----------

The legal question is not one of 'what did he help to do', but of 'how he did it'. The US of all nations should understand the legal rationale behind charging him with treason.

Just because someone has 'good intentions' is not justification for breaking the law.

Sums it all up very well, what he did for what is not the question, rather how he did it.

 

[Solomon2]

B He could have come to the Pakistani authorities too

You didn't read the quoted passages: one of the reasons the Americans abandoned the King was that his officials couldn't be trusted. Do Pakistanis really have confidence that their government would pursue terrorists? Look at all the excuses not to go into N. Wazirstan - and when the P.A. ran out of excuses they simply said, "No."

C He was paid money to go and endanger Pakistani kids, poke them with needles by CIA. He's not a doctor who happened to have come across the knowledge of Osama and chose to help the CIA instead of the Pakistani authorities.

Then he couldn't have told the authorities where OBL was. All he knew was that the Americans were looking for him and the P.A. was not - and that Pakistanis were continuing to die from terror attacks inspired by OBL.

 

[karan.1970]

A He did it for money

So?

B He could have come to the Pakistani authorities too

His choice.. He dug out unclassified information valuable in the international market and went to the highest bidder (focus on unclassified.. These were not Pakistani official secrets)..

C He was paid money to go and endanger Pakistani kids, poke them with needles by CIA. He's not a doctor who happened to have come across the knowledge of Osama and chose to help the CIA instead of the Pakistani authorities.

Take away his license to practice medicine and charge him with attempted murder if you must..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

WHat is the proof that he was aware that he was being used to locate osama bin laden?

Even navy seals were not told till last minute that they have to take out OBL. His only crime that he organised a polio vaccination drive in the region to help eradicate polio and get some reward from US in return for going out of his mandated region to organise such programme. He thought that doing this part time vaccination programme he can earn some money and also help eradicate polio.


CIA just used him.

If he can demonstrate that he was not aware of contributing to an illegal program sponsored by a foreign entity, then certainly the charges against him should not be 'treason'.

For treason to have been committed the Doctor did not have to know that he was helping in the hunt for OBL, or assisting in an illegal US raid in Pakistan, it would be enough to illustrate that he was aware of supporting an illegal foreign program for purposes of intelligence gathering (of any kind).