'CIA doctor' accused of treason

[karan.1970]

O hello their karan. Pot calling the kettle black you little global internet short warrior. Its ok for him or you to globe trot all day and all night posting trolling cr*p but when one of you is told he is a dimwit you have a nerve to post this? Grow up and follow Raps advice and go home.
On topic - Afridi will be put on trial in Pakistan and if found guilty i hope he gets the most severe penalty.

Short.. LOL
why the hissy fit ??? have a glass of cold water and chill.. No point getting into a slinging match..

 

[Vinod2070]

How about finding him guilty in court, confiscating all his worldly assets, condemning him strongly in the media, and then expel him forever from Pakistan. Let the U.S. take him.

I understand the hard feelings... but this guy helped us in the USA. I'd like to see him live out his life in relative peace, while at the same time a message is sent by Pakistan.

If it has to be a message, it has to be a message of deterrence, not reward!

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Outrage at Musharraf rape remarks

The above story should tell you if banishing him would do the trick.

 

[VelocuR]

How about finding him guilty in court, confiscating all his worldly assets, condemning him strongly in the media, and then expel him forever from Pakistan. Let the U.S. take him.

I understand the hard feelings... but this guy helped us in the USA. I'd like to see him live out his life in relative peace, while at the same time a message is sent by Pakistan.

Yes you can! This guy will received alot of celebration, autographs, new house mansion with free income comfortable life in USA and new upcoming movie 'Super Doctor Hero'. That's insult to Pakistan.

Sorry, no one asking to send him to USA, it will not released anyway.

 

[karan.1970]

Do you even know what the word treason means? Having links and cooperating with any foreign intelligence service whether its friendly or hostile is an outright treason. The man should have came to Pakistan Army and should have shared this information with them instead of running after the CIA looking for a payout. The man is a traitor and should be executed for this treason for the people and the state of Pakistan.

Was the same thought process applied when that Fai dude was arrested by Americans.. ?? Is he accused of treason.. ?? After all he as an american citizen had contacts with ISI... You wanna look up Pakistani comments in that thread?? How many advocated trying him for treason ?? Double standards??

 

[karan.1970]

So now you're going with naivety? Listen if I helped the CIA do anything in my country, I would know very well that I'm doing something that is going against the law of the state. Dr. Afridi wasn't trying to do something nice, he was a hired agent of the CIA and being one itself is a charge for treason.

Naivety ?? No.. I dont think so.. Its never as cut and dry about means and the ends.. Else Pakistan would have never implemented NRO and Zardari would have never made it to the post of President..And see my post above about Dr Fai who as an American citizen worked for ISI...Didnt see any clamor for him to be tried for treason...

 

[Solomon2]

The problem with letting the authorities decide treason is that you are leaving the idea of what your nation stands for to them. I see this is an issue for more than one nation of the subcontinent, but it is most pressing for Pakistan. Even the English kings realized that they themselves could not judge such things; commoners were entitled to jury trials, and lords by Parliament.

On a lesser note, this "CIA doctor" apparently never took any loyalty oath other than to be a doctor. He was not a state official of any sort. How he can be charged with high treason under Pakistan's constitution and laws for trying to rat out OBL is something nobody bothers to explain. So I'm asking: in what way, exactly, could this guy be charged with undermining Pakistan's Constitution?

 

[Jango]

The problem with letting the authorities decide treason is that you are leaving the idea of what your nation stands for to them. I see this is an issue for more than one nation of the subcontinent, but it is most pressing for Pakistan. Even the English kings realized that they themselves could not judge such things; commoners were entitled to jury trials, and lords by Parliament.

On a lesser note, this "CIA doctor" apparently never took any loyalty oath other than to be a doctor. He was not a state official of any sort. How he can be charged with high treason under Pakistan's constitution and laws for trying to rat out OBL is something nobody bothers to explain. So I'm asking: in what way, exactly, could this guy be charged with undermining Pakistan's Constitution?

So, we are wrong in not having a jury, only because it is opposite to the US legal system?

And we should not be holding him for treason, because somebody said so/ There are professional lawyers at this, i am sure.

He can be charged for treason for aiding CIA. And if not treason , then crime against humanity, or attempting to put lives in danger in a way.

 

[karan.1970]

The problem with letting the authorities decide treason is that you are leaving the idea of what your nation stands for to them. I see this is an issue for more than one nation of the subcontinent, but it is most pressing for Pakistan. Even the English kings realized that they themselves could not judge such things; commoners were entitled to jury trials, and lords by Parliament.

On a lesser note, this "CIA doctor" apparently never took any loyalty oath other than to be a doctor. He was not a state official of any sort. How he can be charged with high treason under Pakistan's constitution and laws for trying to rat out OBL is something nobody bothers to explain. So I'm asking: in what way, exactly, could this guy be charged with undermining Pakistan's Constitution?

I have been asking this for last 15 pages.. Got abused, but no answers..

I mean, he can be charged with endangerment of life, manslaughter, malpractice, fraud and similar bunch of stuff.. But treason?? For that he would have had to do something against the state of Pakistan..

 

[Solomon2]

But treason?? For that he would have had to do something against the state of Pakistan..

If so, merely the recommendation to bring charges against him implies that the Commission has discovered that the State had a role in sheltering Osama bin Laden.

 

[Solomon2]

Who determines that the 'compact between State and Citizen has been violated'?

For you, AM, one Pakistani's opinion:

As citizens, we must accept the fact that the ‘social contract’ is a two way street. We can only expect the state to provide us with the amenities and facilities we need if we, in return, fulfil our responsibilities. link

Not my opinion, but an example of a citizen who thinks in such terms.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I have been asking this for last 15 pages.. Got abused, but no answers..

I mean, he can be charged with endangerment of life, manslaughter, malpractice, fraud and similar bunch of stuff.. But treason?? For that he would have had to do something against the state of Pakistan..

If so, merely the recommendation to bring charges against him implies that the Commission has discovered that the State had a role in sheltering Osama bin Laden.

'Treason' if he knowingly cooperated with a foreign entity/intelligence in carrying out an illegal military operation on Pakistani soil - the fact of the matter is that if he was aware that he was participating in a foreign intelligence operation, he only knew as much as his handlers told him, and what his foreign handlers told him could have been cover for anything, not just 'intelligence on OBL'.

From the perspective of a State, the fact that his cooperation with foreign intelligence agencies/entities resulted in the death of a terrorist has little bearing on the fact that the cooperation itself was illegal, facilitated a foreign military operation on Pakistani soil, and if not punished severely, could next time result in some individual being used/volunteering against Pakistani military/strategic interests.

The above point has been explained several times, and most of those continuing to raise nonsensical arguments against it know that Pakistan's position is valid, and any State would do the same - but your pathological hatred of Pakistan and the need to smear it every chance simply prevents you from acknowledging the validity of Pakistan's position.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

For you, AM, one Pakistani's opinion:

Not my opinion, but an example of a citizen who thinks in such terms.

As you said yourself, 'one opinion', and it does not answer the question I posed.

Let me volunteer an answer - the electorate will determine when the 'compact between State and Citizen' has been violated, and if the electorate believes strongly enough, it will demonstrate its unhappiness through casting its votes against those currently in power.

We'll have to wait till the next Pakistani elections to determine what the electorate thinks. Polling data by various organizations does offer us a snapshot of Pakistani public opinion over the last year or so, and that 'snapshot' clearly indicates that nationalists like Imran Khan and nationalistic institutions such as the military have very, very high approval ratings.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The gross criminal negligence cannot be over looked nor the fact that Patient - Doctor confidentiality was destroyed and there are some ethical standards you don't cross and god know how many Pakistani DNA samples he submitted illegally to USA

Can you imagine next time USA decided to self inflict a wound , it would use Synthetic DNA and frame Pakistanis

DNA stealing is same as taking someone's soul and blue prints illegally

 

[Solomon2]

As you said yourself, 'one opinion', and it does not answer the question I posed.

I thought you understood my answer: that the terms of the "social contract" are (as it was for the English, French, and others) for Pakistanis to work out between themselves and their government. Choosing not to do so is itself a choice.

Let me volunteer an answer - the electorate will determine when the 'compact between State and Citizen' has been violated, and if the electorate believes strongly enough, it will demonstrate its unhappiness through casting its votes against those currently in power.

People casting votes isn't going to change the fact that a judge who probably has a general on speed dial will be the one to decide what constitutes treason against the people of Pakistan and what doesn't, is that not so?

We'll have to wait till the next Pakistani elections to determine what the electorate thinks.

There's nothing like "people power" on the street to help shape the agenda, is there?

 

[karan.1970]

'Treason' if he knowingly cooperated with a foreign entity/intelligence in carrying out an illegal military operation on Pakistani soil - the fact of the matter is that if he was aware that he was participating in a foreign intelligence operation, he only knew as much as his handlers told him, and what his foreign handlers told him could have been cover for anything, not just 'intelligence on OBL'.

From the perspective of a State, the fact that his cooperation with foreign intelligence agencies/entities resulted in the death of a terrorist has little bearing on the fact that the cooperation itself was illegal, facilitated a foreign military operation on Pakistani soil, and if not punished severely, could next time result in some individual being used/volunteering against Pakistani military/strategic interests.

The above point has been explained several times, and most of those continuing to raise nonsensical arguments against it know that Pakistan's position is valid, and any State would do the same - but your pathological hatred of Pakistan and the need to smear it every chance simply prevents you from acknowledging the validity of Pakistan's position.

Unlike what you think, I do not hate Pakistan.. Certainly not Pakistani people either.. Yes, I do hate people like Musharraf, Zia, Hafiz Saeed (plus a few Pakistani members here) etc etc but then I can probably find that many people in India too that I hate..

On topic, so tell me, should the same rules apply to Dr Fai who has been arrested in USA for having contacts and financial transactions with ISI ?? After all, as you said, its not the actual result of colluding but the act of cooperation itself with a foreign intelligence agency that should attract the label of treason...