'Chinese students stealing tech secrets from UK varsities’

[JayAtl]

I was talking about how they are in the US - what does that ironically have to do with indian members ...

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I was talking about how they are in the US - what does that ironically have to do with indian members ...

So Hollywood = the ultimate truth, huh?

You have the prejudice against the Chinese, now this prejudice has clouded your judgement against all East Asians.

Even we have problems with few Indian posters here, do you ever see the Chinese posters brought this feud toward all South Asians in general?

And Pakistan is always our best friendly nation.

Talk about racism, who is more racist in reality?

You are white brainwashing dummy, talk to you is a big waste of time.

 

[gpit]

Funny, an Indian guy always uses the racist undertone of the West to bash China.

If the West believes China is not capable to innovate by themselves, then neither India would be perceived as innovative in their mind. Since the white supremacy has insisted that only the white people can innovate in this planet.

Other than western rotten rhetoric, do you expect him to invent anything new but further inferior in every aspect? Their whole system is copy/pasted from British but never functions in a British way, which perhaps makes British system even more awe-and-shock to him.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Other than western rotten rhetoric, do you expect him to invent anything new but further inferior in every aspect? Their whole system is copy/pasted from British but never functions in a British way, which perhaps makes British system even more awe-and-shock to him.

This guy has just slipped his words that all East Asians are racists, even Hollywood thinks so.

It looks like it is not that he dislikes the Chinese because it is Communist, but he just dislikes all East Asians in general no matter what political view they have.

 

[gubbi]

Scream all people want. It's a empty world out here in cyberspace. We'll see in the future more and more contributions from China to the rest of the world. US is already taking up HSR projects from chinese companies.

We'll always to aim to do everything better and more efficient.

The concept of Originality/Original Ideas is one thing, tweaking such original and producing patents enmasse is another. This is where China leads in patent application. You invent the screw with a straight notch - thats original thinking. I tweak that screw head and come up with a cross notch - now thats tweaking and I will get a patent for THAT! Majority of the Chinese patents, or for that matter worldwide, lie in that realm. That isn't exactly a contribution to humanity.

I will always appreciate any original thinking or ideas. Original thinkers fascinate me. But basking in the number of patent applications or run of the mill mediocre scientific publications as a benchmark of technological prowess is ridiculous, to say the least.

This is an interesting thread and lets stick to the title.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The concept of Originality/Original Ideas is one thing, tweaking such original and producing patents enmasse is another. This is where China leads in patent application. You invent the screw with a straight notch - thats original thinking. I tweak that screw head and come up with a cross notch - now thats tweaking and I will get a patent for THAT! Majority of the Chinese patents, or for that matter worldwide, lie in that realm. That isn't exactly a contribution to humanity.

I will always appreciate any original thinking or ideas. Original thinkers fascinate me. But basking in the number of patent applications or run of the mill mediocre scientific publications as a benchmark of technological prowess is ridiculous, to say the least.

This is an interesting thread and lets stick to the title.

Everyone can think on the paper, but can you turn the idea into the real product?

The wild imagination doesn't equate to the capability.

 

[gubbi]

It's not just about data but the whole research process - How can you steal something that is already inside your head?

If data is the only thing that is important why is experience and exposure highly valued.

Data, data. Data is a convenient word to hide behind.

You are right about the knowledge part. Yes, you gain knowledge and experience is very much appreciated, anywhere in the world.

But take for instance, setting up a lab in your home country after an education in US. You gain experience and knowledge and want to set up a lab in your home country researching the very same topic on which you spent 5-6 years of your life to get a PhD. No one can take that knowledge from you and its yours! But then to set up a lab, you will need resources. Resources, not only in the form of equipment, but raw data up to the point from where you wish to conduct your research. You cannot start from scratch - because it will take years, if not decades to generate all that raw data and come to a point where from you can start new experiments.

This is where accusations are flying. People have been known to steal that raw data, take it with them and then set up labs in their home countries. Not only raw data, but bits and pieces of raw material too. Now that is what is considered stealing. All that raw data generated in a lab in US by you is NOT your property. It is the property of the PI (Boss), the Institute/University and the US tax payers. You cannot take it out of the country without permission. And that is what I am trying to point out.

 

[gubbi]

Everyone can think on the paper, but can you turn the idea into the real product?

The wild imagination doesn't equate to the capability.

No they cannot. Original thinkers are rare to come by and they are the ones who set the course for humanity or rather technological development.

 

[Obambam]

Sir James Dyson..tsk tsk

No one should take his comments seriously. He, who is more concerned about the numbers on his bank account had moved his company to the far east to exploit the cheap labours is starting to show his personal concerns. He is very concerned about the very Asians who are making his products are now capable of competing with him on the level playing field.

It is not about the Chinese stealing, it is moreso to do with his greed.
Of course Chinese students are easy scapegoats since they have exploded into the Science and Engineering scene in recent years. Fact that over-sea students has to cough up 3-5 times as much to study in the UK is enough to rubbish off his claim on so-called "theft".

If their study doesn't allow access to modern technology and they don't get access to data or get taught the same as everyone else, then that would be a racist fraudulent system. What are the families of the Chinese student paying for? 30k+ a year just to sit in the canteen to drink English tea and feast on bacon sandwiches?

If he is truely concerned then perhaps he should alleviate the problem by making tangible efforts to improve the level of British education or fund British students through university? There are 37,000 vacancies per annum and roughly 20,000 gets filled. So the very he, who is worried about the tighter Visa restrictions imposed on over-sea students is now turning around and say to the ones who are paying the most to come and study in the UK are actually here to steal knowledge and technology is sheer madness indeed.

Tighter visa controls risk losing engineers and firms, says Dyson - Education News, Education - The Independent
"He told BBC Radio 4's The World this Weekend: "I am extremely concerned because already England is under-producing the numbers of engineers it needs by 50 per cent. There are 37,000 vacancies a year and about 20,000 graduates. So already it is very, very difficult to find engineers.

"It is sheer madness to be effectively chucking out graduates who we desperately need. I am afraid what it will end up doing is driving firms like us abroad because we simply can't get people to do our research and development."

Please also take note that this is an on going trend, not only in Britain, but also in America and advanced countries elsewhere.
By marrying an enriched country with much rapidly improved living standards with the 'Chinese determination' (it's in our genes) paves way for research and development. Thus allowing us to challenge and compete with foreign companies on the global arena.

BBC News - China 'to overtake US on science' in two years
"China is on course to overtake the US in scientific output possibly as soon as 2013 - far earlier than expected.

That is the conclusion of a major new study by the Royal Society, the UK's national science academy.

The country that invented the compass, gunpowder, paper and printing is set for a globally important comeback.

An analysis of published research - one of the key measures of scientific effort - reveals an "especially striking" rise by Chinese science.

The study, Knowledge, Networks and Nations, charts the challenge to the traditional dominance of the United States, Europe and Japan.

The figures are based on the papers published in recognised international journals listed by the Scopus service of the publishers Elsevier."

 

[madooxno9]

Somebody can you steal Koh-i-Noor , I WILL PAY 2 MORE STUDENT TO STUDY IN UK.

 

[Anonymous user]

You are right about the knowledge part. Yes, you gain knowledge and experience is very much appreciated, anywhere in the world.

But take for instance, setting up a lab in your home country after an education in US. You gain experience and knowledge and want to set up a lab in your home country researching the very same topic on which you spent 5-6 years of your life to get a PhD. No one can take that knowledge from you and its yours! But then to set up a lab, you will need resources. Resources, not only in the form of equipment, but raw data up to the point from where you wish to conduct your research. You cannot start from scratch - because it will take years, if not decades to generate all that raw data and come to a point where from you can start new experiments.

This is where accusations are flying. People have been known to steal that raw data, take it with them and then set up labs in their home countries. Not only raw data, but bits and pieces of raw material too. Now that is what is considered stealing. All that raw data generated in a lab in US by you is NOT your property. It is the property of the PI (Boss), the Institute/University and the US tax payers. You cannot take it out of the country without permission. And that is what I am trying to point out.

So how would it differ if someone took the same data out of the company/university and setup a rival company in the US?

 

[CardSharp]

Nevermind Gubbi. This is another iteration of his racist view (posted several times now) that anyone ethnically Chinese is incapable of original thinking, pointing to Chinese reverse engineering/number of mediocre papers coming out of China as evidence. It's pretty bound up in his fundamental belief of Indian superiority and the reassuring logic behind his thinking that India will eventually triumph and China eventually fail.

Of course, this is overlooking the fact that both Japan and South Korea relied on reverse engineering as a stepping stone to innovative success and that while the papers coming out of China are still pretty meh, a growing number is making it into prestigious journals in various fields.

 

[Anonymous user]

Nevermind Gubbi. This is another iteration of his racist view (posted several times now) that anyone ethnically Chinese is incapable of original thinking, pointing to Chinese reverse engineering/number of mediocre papers coming out of China as evidence. It's pretty bound up in his fundamental belief of Indian superiority and the reassuring logic behind his thinking that India will eventually triumph and China eventually fail.

Of course, this is overlooking the fact that both Japan and South Korea relied on reverse engineering as a stepping stone to innovative success and that while the papers coming out of China are still pretty meh, a growing number is making it into prestigious journals in various fields.

Yes I realize some of his post indicate on whole that Chinese can't innovate or least not like western countries. In a country of 1.3 billion people ?!? seriously?

Also I find it humorous that everyone is bashing the Chinese students in the "uppity moral" stance, in the few countries I worked inc India and London everyone copied swathes of data from the firm before leaving the company. Its morally wrong but in a dog eat dog world everybody wants that advantage from the next guy.

And now some jokers are justifying how its wrong for Chinese students to bring data from the US universities back to their homeland for competitive advantaged? What a joke, if the data is that important secure it, if you can't secure it then either stop complaining or stop letting foreign students in period. If everyone was really so morally upright there would be no need for companies like McAfee and Norton etc.

 

[CardSharp]

Yes I realize some of his post indicate on whole that Chinese can't innovate or least not like western countries. In a country of 1.3 billion people ?!? seriously?

He's obviously bought into the 'innovative India' versus "autocratic rigid China" narrative in the US and extrapolated to a racial level. He's used things like Chinese students in his classes don't speak up as often as he does, as "proof" of Indian dynamism and ethnic Chinese inability to think outside the box.

Funny thing is these articles are almost identical to those brought out in the 70's about Japan.

 

[Anonymous user]

Funny thing is these articles are almost identical to those brought out in the 70's about Japan.

They probably recycle them every 40 years and just change the name of the country (Japan --> China), (Russia --> China). It'll be funny to dig these discussions up 20 years from now and restart the debate.