Chinese Navy (PLAN) News & Discussions

[Figaro]

Subjective = debatable. But you will say your stuff is better, I will say our stuff is better.

And sure, if you go by what I have to say, then the Brahmos gives us a huge advantage. Especially now that we are openly removing the range restriction.

But as I said, I am talking purely about numbers. IN will take as long as 2037 to 2047 to reach numbers and DWT parity with the PLAN. If it comes down to a fight today, IN has the advantage.

Could you list out some of the perceived “advantages” the IN possesses? Because I can’t think of any ...

PLAN cannot deploy all its assets against India. And India has no need to deploy all its assets against PLAN.

In a war with China, India will have to use basically all its naval assets if it stands a chance in the sea ... but the PLAN would only need to use a portion of their forces to deal with the IN. This is not a speculation but a fact. I’m pretty sure that Indian commanders acknowledge the inferior position against the PLAN in basically any scenario ... which helps them adopt assymetrical tactics.

They need to commission it fast. Instead of making 100% combat fit. I suggest PLAN shall also change their doctrine by putting out ship into fleet fast without so strict to a fully combat warship criteria.

No matter how well trained or how many trial years u can conduct to make it fully fit. You still need to put the new ship into operation to sharpen the efficiency and proficieny. After a year or service will able to build it into 100% combat ready ship.

Putting a 70% combat fit warship into service is better than no warship in service. A warship that can go 26knots instead of 30knots is still better than no warships and 0 knots. The remaining issue can be slowly iron out as more exercise involved and crews are better train to handle and maintain it.

PLAN need to commission 4 055 in a single year as a show of force.

When you don’t have a naval industry to support such a rapid construction, why take the risk? You probably remember how one Indian warship flipped over while conducting repairs in the dock ... to attempt production/commissioning over ones capability is a recipe for disaster.

 

[randomradio]

Could you list out some of the perceived “advantages” the IN possesses? Because I can’t think of any ...

1. The choke points. PLAN cannot move into the IOR without alerting the IN. IN always have a few ships patrolling all choke points all the time.

2. IAF/IN can reach most of the major choke points from the mainland using fighter aircraft alone.

3. PLAN's greater focus is on the other navies operating on their turf, so their presence in the IOR is negligible. Their largest presence was last year when they had 14 ships and subs around.

In a war with China, India will have to use basically all its naval assets if it stands a chance in the sea ... but the PLAN would only need to use a portion of their forces to deal with the IN. This is not a speculation but a fact. I’m pretty sure that Indian commanders acknowledge the inferior position against the PLAN in basically any scenario ... which helps them adopt assymetrical tactics.

Due to the said advantages, PLAN's deployment in the IOR will be limited.

By 2027, IN plans to have a 200-ship navy, out of which 120 will be capital ships. By 2037, the numbers will practically be on par.

 

[Deino]

...

By 2027, IN plans to have a 200-ship navy, out of which 120 will be capital ships. By 2037, the numbers will practically be on par.

Pardon to intervene ... but tell me any of India's latest estimations or schedules on either program concerning any ship, plane, helicopter or rocket/missile that was met?

So I beg your pardon if I'm not really expecting that by "2037, the numbers will practically be on par".

 

[lonelyman]

"On par" is subjective.

For example, if we assume that hypothetically none of your ships have the capacity to stop the Brahmos, then all your ships will sink regardless of how many you bring to the fight.

When it comes to capability, we can only assume things. If we want to stop assuming, then only a war will answer that question and neither side is going to war anytime soon.

So the only contest we can discuss about is in the numbers involved. And when it comes to numbers, in the IOR, PLAN will never have an advantage against IN. In the Pacific, China has to contend with the US, Japan, Australia and India.

India has far too many advantages and China has none.

Brahmos junk again! the stuff Russians don't use themselves

Can't wait to see 3-4 of the 055 destroyers doing anti piracy deployment in Indian Ocean.

plus 3 of out latest nuclear subs 095

Pardon to intervene ... but tell me any of India's latest estimations or schedules on either program concerning any ship, plane, helicopter or rocket/missile that was met?

So I beg your pardon if I'm not really expecting that by "2037, the numbers will practically be on par".

In India's culture, you say it means you done it, there is no shame in boasting.

Totally contrary, in Chinese culture, if you can't deliver you promised, there is no second chance.

 

[Deino]

...
In India's culture, you say it means you done it, there is no shame in boasting.
....

Very much like the Russians

 

[randomradio]

Pardon to intervene ... but tell me any of India's latest estimations or schedules on either program concerning any ship, plane, helicopter or rocket/missile that was met?

So I beg your pardon if I'm not really expecting that by "2037, the numbers will practically be on par".

Project related schedules are rarely met, but most 15 and 30-year plans are met. Even with delays, our ship building capabilities have kept up with demand.

Sometimes, when numbers seem like they won't be met, we will import, like we are doing with some frigates.

Our problem is money, and that problem has been reducing every day.

 

[terranMarine]

Subjective = debatable. But you will say your stuff is better, I will say our stuff is better.

And sure, if you go by what I have to say, then the Brahmos gives us a huge advantage. Especially now that we are openly removing the range restriction.

But as I said, I am talking purely about numbers. IN will take as long as 2037 to 2047 to reach numbers and DWT parity with the PLAN. If it comes down to a fight today, IN has the advantage.

So does India have the numbers NOW or only after 2037? Because you are saying Indian Navy is already too strong for PLAN today. If you can't see yourself contradicting yourself you surely must be blind. Better clarify what exactly do you mean with numerical advantages and please leave Japan and America out of the discussion.

 

[english_man]

@randonradio.............not trying to be funny, but the Indian Navy has NO chance of catching up to the Chinese Navy. I mean over the years we keep hearing these stories of how the Indians are going to build this great Navy.........but it just doesn't happen does it? To be quite honest, even though i'am a naval enthusiast, the one country who I have no interest in their warship development is the Indian Navy, as it takes them years and years and years just to build just one warship, never mind lots of them, that some Indians here think they can build.

 

[lonelyman]

@randonradio.............not trying to be funny, but the Indian Navy has NO chance of catching up to the Chinese Navy. I mean over the years we keep hearing these stories of how the Indians are going to build this great Navy.........but it just doesn't happen does it? To be quite honest, even though i'am a naval enthusiast, the one country who I have no interest in their warship development is the Indian Navy, as it takes them years and years and years just to build one warship, never mind lots of them that some Indians here think they can build.

Most of Indians live in a different fantasy world, that's why they come up with stuff like supa powa by 2012 even by their own president

Project related schedules are rarely met, but most 15 and 30-year plans are met. Even with delays, our ship building capabilities have kept up with demand.

Sometimes, when numbers seem like they won't be met, we will import, like we are doing with some frigates.

Our problem is money, and that problem has been reducing every day.

Indian's no-shame ability to stretch reality is amazing, for you 1+1 is not 2, but 11. You can't even follow through on individual projects, now you are talking bout 30 year plan like China does?

Fix your Arjunk or LCA first, then come here talking about 15 year plan.

 

[randomradio]

@randonradio.............not trying to be funny, but the Indian Navy has NO chance of catching up to the Chinese Navy. I mean over the years we keep hearing these stories of how the Indians are going to build this great Navy.........but it just doesn't happen does it? To be quite honest, even though i'am a naval enthusiast, the one country who I have no interest in their warship development is the Indian Navy, as it takes them years and years and years just to build one warship, never mind lots of them that some Indians here think they can build.

Our latest destroyer from the P-15B class, we laid the keel in 2015 and was launched in 2016. That's the same amount of time the Chinese take for similar ships.

https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/project-15b-guided-missile-destroyers/
The keel laying ceremony of second destroyer in class, INS Mormugao (D 67), was held in June 2015 and the vessel was launched at MDL shipyard in Mumbai, during September 2016.

It takes Britain 6 years to build the Type 45. It should take 5 years to do the same with the first ship of the P-15B class, which is due to get commissioned this year.

The P-15A took long not due to the shipbuilder's fault, but due to the fault of the weapons contractors who were behind schedule developing the weapons for it.

The problem stems from the fact that the Chinese put proven stuff on their ships while we waited for new stuff to be developed before we could add them to our ships.

Now that we have chosen proven stuff for our new ships, the P-15B and P-17A, the building times will be normal, just one year short of what the Chinese manage.

Anyway, there is a massive funding difference between the two countries right now, so whatever India does will look small compared to what the Chinese are doing. But let's not forget that we are building 11 new destroyer class ships right now and at least as many as 10 warships above 3500T will begin construction over the next year or two.

And there is a major plan afoot to increase the number of ships we can build over the next few years.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-facility-investment/articleshow/50520223.cms

Indian's no-shame ability to stretch reality is amazing, for you 1+1 is not 2, but 11.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...63893265565_story.html?utm_term=.f57385e3d0cd
The Chinese ‘dragon’ and the Indian ‘elephant’ must not fight each other, but dance with each other,” Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said in Beijing on Thursday. If the two countries joined hands, he said, “one plus one will equal not only two, but also eleven,” referring to how powerful they would be together.

 

[english_man]

Our latest destroyer from the P-15B class, we laid the keel in 2015 and was launched in 2016. That's the same amount of time the Chinese take for similar ships.

https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/project-15b-guided-missile-destroyers/
The keel laying ceremony of second destroyer in class, INS Mormugao (D 67), was held in June 2015 and the vessel was launched at MDL shipyard in Mumbai, during September 2016.

Ok...........but the hull building is usually the easiest and quickest part of a warship build.......now we wait to see how long it takes to outfit and put into the active fleet.

 

[randomradio]

Ok...........but the hull building is usually the easiest and quickest part of a warship build.......now we wait to see how long it takes to outfit and put into the active fleet.

The biggest threat to delays would be foreign suppliers.

 

[english_man]

The biggest threat to delays would be foreign suppliers.

Yes.........but for the Indian Navy to grow at a rapid rate, as you hope and expect, then you would need to ensure that all the equipment can be designed and built in India. This is how the Chinese Navy has managed to grow rapidly, as they have slowly weened themselves off having to rely on foreign equipment, by learning to design and build for themselves items such as gas turbine engines, and their own missile systems.

 

[randomradio]

Yes.........but for the Indian Navy to grow at a rapid rate, as you hope and expect, then you would need to ensure that all the equipment can be designed and built in India. This is how the Chinese Navy has managed to grow rapidly, as they have slowly weened themselves off having to rely on foreign equipment, by learning to design and build for themselves items such as gas turbine engines, and their own missile systems.

The Chinese use German engines. The Type 052C uses MTU-1163 and the Type 052D uses the MTU-956. They license produce them. We use American and Ukrainian engines.

As for weapons, I think we will indigenize pretty much everything over the next 10 years.

 

[waz]

Always dragging US and Japan into the discussion. So Indian Navy is able to match PLAN numbers is all due to taking into account of the other 2 Naval powers. Indian maths and logic always full of surprises. I wonder if the French and British also see it that way, matching PLAN by including those of US and Japan.

Yep I told you I predicted it a few days ago and sure enough it came as expected.

Prepare for the many "oh the great alliance of Japan/USA/Australia and India" posts, that's the rage now a days....They need friends for a fight with you chaps, friends that have their back, but way back......