Chinese Navy (PLAN) News & Discussions

[TaiShang]

LOL, scrambling for resources? Do you know what is the most important of all these resources... it is water. And the Tibetan plateau is the water tower of Asia.

Of this "alliance" you are speaking of, not a single one has even officially declared China to be an enemy. We have seen how much resistance China has faced, when India retreated from Donglang or from the massive buildup of islands and military bases in the SCS.

Remind me again, did even a single nation on Earth officially take India's side during the Donglang standoff? Even one? In politics, words are cheap, yet India didn't even get the support of a few words.

Indians are easy to fool by mere speech or some titled ascribed. That's perhaps why they are so adamantly attached to being the world's largest democracy but ignore the corresponding fact that they are also one of the world's most dysfunctional governments.

They take words at face value. That may work between relatives and friends, but, between countries, they have little weight. If words and shows had any effect, we would not be on the brink of a nuclear catastrophe in about 6 years after Hillary and Medvedev pushed the reset button.

The reality is that China's military is underfunded and underdeveloped for a country of its economic capacity and industrial capability. The Chinese military has some catching up to do in order to correct the demilitarisation policies of the 80s and 90s. If you think China is a version of "The Third Reich" with a military budget of 1.3% GDP then what will China be with a 2% NATO recommended ($250 billion equivalent), 2.5% like India ($325 billion equivalent), 3.5% like USA ($455 billion equivalent), or 5% like Russia ($650 billion equivalent), maybe learn from Israel by spending 5.8% ($750 billion equivalent and surpass the USA's military spending)?

Since you are equating contemporary China with the Third Reich then lets look at the relative spending on military. Nazi Germany’s military expenditure as a percentage of GDP leading up to WW2:
1935: 8% ($1 trillion equivalent for China)
1936: 13% ($1.7 trillion)
1937: 13% ($1.7 trillion)
1938: 17% ($2.2 trillion)
1939: 23% ($3 trillion)
https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi-germany/nazi-germany-military-expenditure/
China is far from gearing up for war, you are one magnitude off. It isn't even spending at the relative levels of most nations, especially ones with certain geopolitical aims.

Foreign relations is not built upon comfort levels, it is built upon tangible interests. China is doing relatively well in this field.

Excellent. Empirical evidence is the realm some hate to compete. Again, Indians are attached to adjectives without backing them with ground/historical facts.

If 1.3% GDP makes China Third Reich, What does 2.5% GDP of military spending make India? Alien Third Reich?

It is so easy to refute Indians that it becomes almost not fun.

 

[randomradio]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/conv...terests-vis-a-vis-china.542341/#post-10219337

@randomradio so you continue to believe in 2027 Indian Navy is only half of PLAN and by 2037-2047 on par ?
China is currently building 19 destroyers (frigates not included).

India is currently building 4 destroyers and 7 destroyer equivalent ships. That's 11 to your 19.

India is in a similar position where we will soon expand production of new ships. We are buying some from Russia also.

 

[GS Zhou]

I don't know what is exactly"destroyer equivalent" . But China's 054A class frigates, with 32-cell VLS, 2x4 anti-ship or cruise missiles launchers, one ASW Helicopter, one 76mm main gun, 2 CIWS guns (type 1130). this is seen as "destroyer equivalent" to many countries. For the Type054A ships, China has built close to 30 units during the past 10years; and the production of the upgraded variant Type 054B has been started.

BTW, when the Chinese posters mentioned "19 destroyers", they refer to Type052D and Type 055 only.

 

[randomradio]

I don't know what is exactly"destroyer equivalent" . But China's 054A class frigates, with 32-cell VLS, 2x4 anti-ship or cruise missiles launchers, one ASW Helicopter, one 76mm main gun, 2 CIWS guns (type 1130). this is seen as "destroyer equivalent" to many countries. For the Type054A ships, China has built close to 30 units during the past 10years; and the production of the upgraded variant Type 054B has been started.

BTW, when the Chinese posters mentioned "19 destroyers", they refer to Type052D and Type 055 only.

Our Shivalik class and the new P-17A class are almost 7000 ton ships and have the same firepower as a destroyer. It only has lesser range in comparison. We call it a frigate for bureaucratic purposes.

We don't have a Type 55 equivalent yet, but it's coming after the 4 new destroyers have progressed in their construction.

 

[Beast]

Our Shivalik class and the new P-17A class are almost 7000 ton ships and have the same firepower as a destroyer. It only has lesser range in comparison. We call it a frigate for bureaucratic purposes.

We don't have a Type 55 equivalent yet, but it's coming after the 4 new destroyers have progressed in their construction.

Your Type 55 equivalent is not even on paper yet. I doubt it will even commission in 10 years time from now. First 055 cruiser will commission soon.

As for Indian current destroyer. They do not have universal VLS silo to handle modern naval warfare. One Silo slot can only handle one type of missile. This is very primitive and outdated.
While the one onboard Chinese 052D and 055 silot slot can handle 5-6 type of missiles from ASM, ABM, LACM, LRADM, SRADM.

 

[Kai Liu]

I don't know what is exactly"destroyer equivalent" . But China's 054A class frigates, with 32-cell VLS, 2x4 anti-ship or cruise missiles launchers, one ASW Helicopter, one 76mm main gun, 2 CIWS guns (type 1130). this is seen as "destroyer equivalent" to many countries. For the Type054A ships, China has built close to 30 units during the past 10years; and the production of the upgraded variant Type 054B has been started.

BTW, when the Chinese posters mentioned "19 destroyers", they refer to Type052D and Type 055 only.

I think he means this which shows 3 destroyers and 1 frigate under construction, and another 1 destroyer and 6 frigates planned, the total is 11:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Indian_Navy

Probably we don't have to argue too much. Because as I always believe, in terms of naval build-up, or military build-up in general, to be sustainable, money matters. We are expecting 6 aircraft carriers in the next 10 years, to better match our economic strength.

 

[Jlaw]

I don't know about matching PLAN by Indian Navy but when i see their warship capsizing, instant face palm
To make such a bold statement of rapidly catching up to PLAN, Indian Navy has to build xx times as much as warships as China is to match our inventory. Do Indians even do their homework by assessing how many assets we have?

No need. Vedic math and magic will solve all their problem. Let's not forget population dividend. When China grows old, India will have many young people who can fight a war against an aging China....

 

[randomradio]

Your Type 55 equivalent is not even on paper yet. I doubt it will even commission in 10 years time from now. First 055 cruiser will commission soon.

What makes you think there isn't a plan for it? Even the IN has said they are working on bigger ships.

As for Indian current destroyer. They do not have universal VLS silo to handle modern naval warfare. One Silo slot can only handle one type of missile. This is very primitive and outdated.
While the one onboard Chinese 052D and 055 silot slot can handle 5-6 type of missiles from ASM, ABM, LACM, LRADM, SRADM.

Irrelevant. You should be talking about firepower instead. The only advantage Chinese ships have over Indian ships today is a dedicated LACM, we have to rely on Brahmos to do both. Once we get the Nirbhay operational, then we would have caught up in that department.

 

[Beast]

What makes you think there isn't a plan for it? Even the IN has said they are working on bigger ships.

I am not questioning whether you have a plan or not but when will it be operation and join the forces? in ten years time from now? Dreaming...

Irrelevant. You should be talking about firepower instead. The only advantage Chinese ships have over Indian ships today is a dedicated LACM, we have to rely on Brahmos to do both. Once we get the Nirbhay operational, then we would have caught up in that department.

Definitely relevant. You can configure your ship accordingly to the mission requirement by equipped with more LACM or more LRADM while India Navy ship do not have such luxury. If you are struck with 36 dedicated Silo and that's it. Just imagine if your MBT gun can only fire armour piercing sabot instead of ATGM or explosive rounds. Your MBT will turn into only anti armour role and nothing. This is not acceptable in modern warfare.

 

[randomradio]

I think he means this which shows 3 destroyers and 1 frigate under construction, and another 1 destroyer and 6 frigates planned, the total is 11:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Indian_Navy
View attachment 460478

Yep.

As for the actual "frigate" requirements. We are getting 10 frigates from Russia and are building dedicated 3400T ASW corvettes.

Probably we don't have to argue too much. Because as I always believe, in terms of naval build-up, or military build-up in general, to be sustainable, money matters. We are expecting 6 aircraft carriers in the next 10 years, to better match our economic strength.

Some Chinese members have made it a competition between India and China.

They fail to understand that the Chinese have to first cater for the presence of the US and Japanese before talking about India. India has unlimited control over the IOR because of that advantage.

They should be comparing IN with whatever ships PLAN can save for India after countering the other countries in the Pacific.

I am not questioning whether you have a plan or not but when will it be operation and join the forces? in ten years time from now? Dreaming...

Why so? A cruiser is just slightly bigger than what we are already building right now. The Type 055 is about 10m longer and 2m wider than the P-15B. And we have the capacity to build such ships.

It takes only 2 years to build a P-15B and launch it. So a cruiser should take the same amount of time.

Definitely relevant. You can configure your ship accordingly to the mission requirement by equipped with more LACM or more LRADM while India Navy ship do not have such luxury. If you are struck with 36 dedicated Silo and that's it. Just imagine if your MBT gun can only fire armour piercing sabot instead of ATGM or explosive rounds. Your MBT will turn into only anti armour role and nothing. This is not acceptable in modern warfare.

It's irrelevant because our ships do everything you are claiming. Plus, our ships can be upgraded to carry more firepower, yours can't. We have dedicated silos for each mission.

You are giving too much importance to something that is not relevant to India.

 

[Kai Liu]

Yep.
Some Chinese members have made it a competition between India and China.

They fail to understand that the Chinese have to first cater for the presence of the US and Japanese before talking about India. India has unlimited control over the IOR because of that advantage.

They should be comparing IN with whatever ships PLAN can save for India after countering the other countries in the Pacific.

Partially agree. If the competition is between China and India, we definitely do not need so many ships.

 

[sinait]

Some Chinese members have made it a competition between India and China.

They fail to understand that the Chinese have to first cater for the presence of the US and Japanese before talking about India. India has unlimited control over the IOR because of that advantage.

They should be comparing IN with whatever ships PLAN can save for India after countering the other countries in the Pacific.

Partially agree. If the competition is between China and India, we definitely do not need so many ships.

Indian warships capsized on their own.
Indian submarines blow up in their ports.
Fully agree China don't need much ships to deter self destruct Indian Navy.
.

 

[cirr]

Type 927 ocean surveillance ship #2 launched at WCS

 

[randomradio]

Partially agree. If the competition is between China and India, we definitely do not need so many ships.

Rather it is India that will have more ships.

 

[sinait]

Rather it is India that will have more ships.

Of course India need more ships.
To replace capsized warships in dry dock.
To replace exploding submarines in port.
SO FUNNY.
.