Chinese military: Taiwan's F-16V useless against the PLA

[Nasr]

China would need 7 days or less to get Taiwan, on the first day 1000 ballistic/cruise missiles would destroy Taiwan aircrafts & defenses then every single area suspected of housing a military or political leader would be bombed, after that 1000 airstrikes (PLA only needs 330 aircrafts to achieve this number of airstrikes) would be launched daily against the taiwan army, all comand centers would be destroyed, 6 bombs would be dropped per airstrike for a total of 6000 bombs daily, Taiwanese soldiers will think it's hell on earth & they would be unimaginably demoralized, they would literaly cry out of fear & they would say "God please save me from this hell", at which point China will drop leaflets telling Taiwan soldiers to lay down their arms & they will be spared & live a happy life or else they will die, by the time PLA soldiers land on Taiwan they would face zero ristance.

And what would China do, if Zionist-America parks two Super Carriers Strike groups on the Eastern Coast of Taiwan? With it's Aegis Destroyers and the Taiwanese Air Defense, they would put up a fierce fight, wouldn't they?

And what would China do, when Zionist-America opens up a second front with it's bases in Japan? Effectively pulling Japan into the war. Then opening up a third front in South Korea, engaging both North Korea and China at the same time?

And how about when Indian and Australian navies opens up another front in the South China Sea.

What would China do then? Fight Japan, Australia, South Korea, India and America ar the same time? And what happens when British Navy joins the war in the Pacific? As does the New Zealand Navy?

How would China counter 7 navies at the same time? Because if China goes to war in the Pacific, that would mean Pakistan would go to war against India. Russia would also have to take on the Zionist-American and it's allies on the Pacific front. This would cascade over to the European theater, where Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan and NATO would open fronts in the Moscow region.

This would quickly switch over to a full blown thermo-nuclear exchange, where Russia, China and Pakistan would launch nukes on America, Britain, France, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Israel and India. There would be a "Nuclear Armageddon."

Their (zionist) playbook has successively sought wars on massive scale. WW1 claimed 37 million lives, WW2 claimed 85 million lives. The next war will be designed to drag in all the major powers in the world. The same way the zionist scheme set-up entrapments based on allegiances and alliances. Arch Duke Ferdinand (Austro-Hungarian Empire) was assassinated in Sarajevo and the Serbians were framed for it. This set off a chain of events which spread like wild fire over Europe.

So think about all of these things, as I am sure the Chinese strategists in government ought to be aware of and have made the necessary planning to account for this.

 

[Hack-Hook]

More of you people over estimate US capabilities. You think US will sell good stuff to Taiwan? Why didnt they sell ROC Taiwan F-35? China is not the China 30 years ago. If huawei can designed and produced a 7nm chips, what makes you think of China military electronic?

US is a declining nation. They are not investing more into R&D in the past in terms of proportion. Many so called military R&D are nothing but scam to get more funding from US government by private contractor. Remember the case where they claim many China counterfeit parts made it into US military hardware? You think those private contractor cant differential real or fake parts? They are greedy and just want squeeze more profits for themselves only.

the comparison is between J-10c or J-16 vs F-16v and F-16v can hold its ground against those two . we are not talking about china Low RCS aircraft

 

[Beast]

the comparison is between J-10c or J-16 vs F-16v and F-16v can hold its ground against those two . we are not talking about china Low RCS aircraft

Have you really seen the spec of J-10C before you make your comment? US is not as strong as you seen. Gulf War 1 is already almost 30 years old war. 30 years later. A lot of things can happpen.

 

[Beidou2020]

Taiwanese military and political targets will be bombed back to the Stone Age before a single PLA soldier lands on Taiwan.

The missile onslaught by the PLA will not be survived by Taiwan.

Taiwan will need all the SAMs they have and hope it intercepts every PLA missile. The worse thing for Taiwan is the capabilities of the PLA is growing rapidly in quality and quantity and the military gap between the mainland and Taiwan is going to grow exponentially bigger.

Taiwan is already diplomatically completely isolated. Their entire economy depends on the mainland and they know it. Even independence forces realise it is suicide to declare independence. Taiwan will be integrated without firing a single bullet.

 

[gambit]

Have you really seen the spec of J-10C before you make your comment?

Specs plus pilot = An actual combat system.

US is not as strong as you seen.

Yes, we are actually stronger than seen.

Gulf War 1 is already almost 30 years old war. 30 years later. A lot of things can happpen.

So the implication here is that 30 yrs made Desert Storm worthless? Then why do you guys keep bringing back the Korean War as a sign of PLA combat effectiveness when the Korean War is actually older? Or are you guys taught in China that the Korean War is AFTER Desert Storm?

You are correct that much can happen in 30 yrs. Unfortunately, that much happened in our favor, not yours. Just because you have a bunch of shiny new toys does not mean the PLA can actually fight and your PLA learned the hard way back in 1979 that its soldiers cannot really fight the way PLA leadership thought they could.

Here is the harsh reality...

https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft0k40035t;chunk.id=0;doc.view=print

As Jiefangjun Bao observed much later: "War is the mirror of training. The war of self-defensive counterattack against Vietnam in 1979—this small mirror—reflected the state of PLA's training at that time. ... A generation of military men ... had been wallowing [in] the PLA's glorious history: We are backward, our weapons and equipment are backward, and ... even more frightening ... our military thinking and training ideas are backward!" [5]

[5] Jiang Yanghong, "Combined Arms Style Pervades the Barracks," Jiefangjun Bao , 18 October 1987, 1, trans. in JPRS , no. 88,006, 19 February 1988, 81.

So let us examine some comments in details, shall we...

War is the mirror of training.

Yes, that is true. As the adage 'You train as you fight' have been tossed around, those who have served, which DOES NOT includes you and your fellow Chinese on this forum, understands the true meaning of that phrase is: 'You train as HOW you want to fight.'

The PLA at the end of the Korean War WANTED to fight only a defensive war -- a guerrilla war. The result is that the PLA ignored components like technology and education, and stagnates as the Western militaries progresses. The PLA trained as how it wanted to fight. So the 1979 border war against Viet Nam ended in disaster.

A generation of military men

Serving a mandatory conscription term of 2-yrs does not qualify. A 'generation' means one devotes most of one's productive yrs, which means literally decades, in a field, whether it is driving a taxi or learning how to lead in war. If you have a senior master sergeant and a general, each contributes literally those decades. They influence others at their respective levels and the impression runs deep as each reinforces what they believe and eventually taught.

even more frightening ... our military thinking and training ideas are backward!

That indictment came from your own. Not US.

https://www.eastview.com/resources/gpa/jiefangjun-bao/
Jiefangjun Bao (解放军报, People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Daily) is the official newspaper of the People’s Republic of China’s Central Military Commission. The publication was established on January 1, 1956 and acts as the authoritative media of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army to release military news and comprehensive military-related information.

The PLA has, even currently, a generation of leadership that wallows in victories against the Nationalists back in WW II and mentally, they stayed there. Hence, the 'backward' indictment. Your PLA leadership was not, and still is not, sufficiently self critical. They think they know it all and was shocked in their boots at the Desert Storm outcome. They finally realized the medals they wears are meaningless. Your PLA abandoned Sun Tzu as the Western militaries put his work under the microscope.

You will win against Taiwan, but the cost will be the PLA's degrading to post WW II status. And your generals and admirals knows it.

 

[Beidou2020]

Specs plus pilot = An actual combat system.


Yes, we are actually stronger than seen.


So the implication here is that 30 yrs made Desert Storm worthless? Then why do you guys keep bringing back the Korean War as a sign of PLA combat effectiveness when the Korean War is actually older? Or are you guys taught in China that the Korean War is AFTER Desert Storm?

You are correct that much can happen in 30 yrs. Unfortunately, that much happened in our favor, not yours. Just because you have a bunch of shiny new toys does not mean the PLA can actually fight and your PLA learned the hard way back in 1979 that its soldiers cannot really fight the way PLA leadership thought they could.

Here is the harsh reality...

https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft0k40035t;chunk.id=0;doc.view=print

As Jiefangjun Bao observed much later: "War is the mirror of training. The war of self-defensive counterattack against Vietnam in 1979—this small mirror—reflected the state of PLA's training at that time. ... A generation of military men ... had been wallowing [in] the PLA's glorious history: We are backward, our weapons and equipment are backward, and ... even more frightening ... our military thinking and training ideas are backward!" [5]

[5] Jiang Yanghong, "Combined Arms Style Pervades the Barracks," Jiefangjun Bao , 18 October 1987, 1, trans. in JPRS , no. 88,006, 19 February 1988, 81.

So let us examine some comments in details, shall we...

War is the mirror of training.

Yes, that is true. As the adage 'You train as you fight' have been tossed around, those who have served, which DOES NOT includes you and your fellow Chinese on this forum, understands the true meaning of that phrase is: 'You train as HOW you want to fight.'

The PLA at the end of the Korean War WANTED to fight only a defensive war -- a guerrilla war. The result is that the PLA ignored components like technology and education, and stagnates as the Western militaries progresses. The PLA trained as how it wanted to fight. So the 1979 border war against Viet Nam ended in disaster.

A generation of military men

Serving a mandatory conscription term of 2-yrs does not qualify. A 'generation' means one devotes most of one's productive yrs, which means literally decades, in a field, whether it is driving a taxi or learning how to lead in war. If you have a senior master sergeant and a general, each contributes literally those decades. They influence others at their respective levels and the impression runs deep as each reinforces what they believe and eventually taught.

even more frightening ... our military thinking and training ideas are backward!

That indictment came from your own. Not US.

https://www.eastview.com/resources/gpa/jiefangjun-bao/
Jiefangjun Bao (解放军报, People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Daily) is the official newspaper of the People’s Republic of China’s Central Military Commission. The publication was established on January 1, 1956 and acts as the authoritative media of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army to release military news and comprehensive military-related information.

The PLA has, even currently, a generation of leadership that wallows in victories against the Nationalists back in WW II and mentally, they stayed there. Hence, the 'backward' indictment. Your PLA leadership was not, and still is not, sufficiently self critical. They think they know it all and was shocked in their boots at the Desert Storm outcome. They finally realized the medals they wears are meaningless. Your PLA abandoned Sun Tzu as the Western militaries put his work under the microscope.

You will win against Taiwan, but the cost will be the PLA's degrading to post WW II status. And your generals and admirals knows it.

Who exactly has the US military actually defeated? Go on

Russia took Crimea without firing a single shot including the Sevastopol Naval Base. China took over the South China Sea without firing a shot. All the US could do was cry and put sanctions. Even Iran does whatever it wants including shooting down US drones and US does nothing. North Korea tests missiles and builds nuclear weapons and the US can’t stop it.

US can’t even get rid of Assad in Syria or Maduro in Venezuela. Heck, a bunch of Iraqi militias kept the US in a quagmire for a decade. Now the US is begging the Taliban for talks.

China at its weakest kicked the US military out of North Korea. You ain’t touching Russia or China now home boy.

When it comes to anyone that can punch back, the US is nothing but a barking dog that’s too scared to bite. They know the consequences of getting into an all out war. The US would rather not fight the big boys and keep their laughable ‘aura of invincibility’ in tact than fight and get humiliated.

 

[gambit]

Who exactly has the US military actually defeated? Go on

This is why your PLA was shocked at the Desert Storm outcome, and it looks like the PLA leadership has not changed.

 

[UKBengali]

And what would China do, if Zionist-America parks two Super Carriers Strike groups on the Eastern Coast of Taiwan? With it's Aegis Destroyers and the Taiwanese Air Defense, they would put up a fierce fight, wouldn't they?

And what would China do, when Zionist-America opens up a second front with it's bases in Japan? Effectively pulling Japan into the war. Then opening up a third front in South Korea, engaging both North Korea and China at the same time?

And how about when Indian and Australian navies opens up another front in the South China Sea.

What would China do then? Fight Japan, Australia, South Korea, India and America ar the same time? And what happens when British Navy joins the war in the Pacific? As does the New Zealand Navy?

How would China counter 7 navies at the same time? Because if China goes to war in the Pacific, that would mean Pakistan would go to war against India. Russia would also have to take on the Zionist-American and it's allies on the Pacific front. This would cascade over to the European theater, where Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan and NATO would open fronts in the Moscow region.

This would quickly switch over to a full blown thermo-nuclear exchange, where Russia, China and Pakistan would launch nukes on America, Britain, France, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Israel and India. There would be a "Nuclear Armageddon."

Their (zionist) playbook has successively sought wars on massive scale. WW1 claimed 37 million lives, WW2 claimed 85 million lives. The next war will be designed to drag in all the major powers in the world. The same way the zionist scheme set-up entrapments based on allegiances and alliances. Arch Duke Ferdinand (Austro-Hungarian Empire) was assassinated in Sarajevo and the Serbians were framed for it. This set off a chain of events which spread like wild fire over Europe.

So think about all of these things, as I am sure the Chinese strategists in government ought to be aware of and have made the necessary planning to account for this.

Dude you need to take a chill pill.

 

[Beast]

This is why your PLA was shocked at the Desert Storm outcome, and it looks like the PLA leadership has not changed.

As I say you keep harping on a war 30 years ago. China is not the same China 30 years ago. When comes to GPS signal , we got our own beidou and our AWACS is a generation ahead of US with 360 degrees in coverage of AESA compare to US PESA. 055 destroyer is unrivalled in it's class. That is unthinkable in the early 90s of China military.

 

[gambit]

As I say you keep harping on a war 30 years ago.

Then explain why you guys keep harping on the Korean War?

China is not the same China 30 years ago.

Neither is US. But there is a chasm of difference between the US military and the PLA, namely -- combat experience.

Yeah...Yeah...Korea...

When comes to GPS signal , we got our own beidou and our AWACS is a generation ahead of US with 360 degrees in coverage of AESA compare to US PESA.

I already explained the difference between the ESA types in this usage -- yrs ago. Bottom line is that the tactical difference comes from experience, not technical.

Oh...Of course...Korea...

 

[Beast]

Neither is US. But there is a chasm of difference between the US military and the PLA, namely -- combat experience.

Yeah...Yeah...Korea...


I already explained the difference between the ESA types in this usage -- yrs ago. Bottom line is that the tactical difference comes from experience, not technical.

Oh...Of course...Korea...

Typical excuse from declining nation. If experience is so crucial. Iraq forces would have beaten coalition forces easily or inflict them badly in gulf war 1 since they just finished Iraq iran war in 1989. They are battle hardened and experience and yet?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

ave you really seen the spec of J-10C before you make your comment? US is not as strong as you seen

If that would had been the case than PAF would had gone for J 10s not eying on F 16s till now

 

[Beast]

If that would had been the case than PAF would had gone for J 10s not eying on F 16s till now

That is a weak argument. First PAF is not like Arab nation of Saudi and UAE who are flushed with cash that they can afford many types of similar class of aircraft. They need to be prudent in spending. Buying F-16 is build on their exist structure which simplify logistics and lower cost. Nothing to do with better or not. Plus what China can export vs what PLAAF are using are 2 different thing. China do offer water down version of export equipment. But that doesn't mean it's non competitive since opponent may also have water down version of export from others.

 

[gambit]

Typical excuse from declining nation. If experience is so crucial. Iraq forces would have beaten coalition forces easily or inflict them badly in gulf war 1 since they just finished Iraq iran war in 1989. They are battle hardened and experience and yet?

Typical ignorance from a conscript reject. The Iraqi Army never had the initiative. Coalition forces took them surprise.

Further, their combat doctrines were taken from the Soviet Union and your China. Their war against Iran were fought to a standstill, so that should be a clue as to how they would have fared against US and allies. We did not take their combat experience lightly. In fact, how we initially attacked Iraqi defenses came from taking their combat experience seriously. In terms of relative combat experience, the US was not lacking as we exited the Vietnam War in 1973. In the 20 yrs leading up to Desert Storm, we developed technologies and new doctrines that produced those spectacular results that ended the careers of many PLA generals.

The PLA cannot take Taiwan without incurring losses severe enough to set you back 20 yrs. Going by your oft 'could have would have' logic: If China could have taken Taiwan militarily, China would have done it.

Even your own PLA media called the PLA's leadership 'backward'. Your generals and admirals are corrupt to the core. You think that the order to the PLA in 1998 to divest itself of its corporate interests took immediate effects? You are dreaming. As with any business, there has to be an orderly transition of ownership and that could take yrs, depending on the size of the business, and the PLA had business interests in the billions of US dollars, large and small. Your PLA generals and admirals were busy offshoring whatever money they can get their hands on to make their inevitable retirement comfortable. Their subordinates were doing the same. The current generation of leadership maybe pure, but it will take them their entire careers to clean up the PLA, so you are looking at another 30 yrs.

 

[UKBengali]

@gambit

You make excellent points but we need to bear in mind that Iraq in 1991 is massively inferior to China in 2019. This is both in quantity and quality of equipment relative to US.

Yes China cannot take Taiwan if US intervenes but by themselves in full war mode, they can take Taiwan in 1 year and still leave their military relatively intact as they can produce fighters, ships and missiles rapidly. PLA would go back 5 years I would say as that is how long it would take to replace their losses to conquer Taiwan.