Chinese J-20 a powerful competitor to American F-22 & Russian T-50

[xixi]

Guys

I have been looking and looking at that photo of the T-50, and something doesn't sit right with me. And I am talking intakes.

First of all we ALL know , the T50 engine centerlines are above the centerline of the inlets and is pointing towards the centre axis of the plane.

if you look at the pictures what appears to be the compressor blades, would only be possible if the engine centerlines where pointing away from the centre axis of the plane or at least parallel with it..

at least that is what the photo angle suggests...

I think these are radar blockers we see...

I am also confused why this photo shows contradiction with the public design. These are certainly blades, not some blockers. But why can they be seen so much?

 

[WHITESMOKE]

Its useless to compare these both platforms (J20/Pak-Fa) before their final config. We dont know what kind of and how many changes will be there.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

People must know that it is not just the F 22 that the Americans have...they also have the YF 23 and the YF 32 and a host of other aircrafts that lost out the competition which are quiet capable.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

People must know that it is not just the F 22 that the Americans have...they also have the YF 23 and the YF 32 and a host of other aircrafts that lost out the competition which are quiet capable.

China has Chengdu and Shenyang.

Shenyang has lost the competition to Chengdu for the bid of stealth fighter.

 

[xixi]

China has Chengdu and Shenyang.

Shenyang has lost the competition to Chengdu for the bid of stealth fighter.

American demonstrators are dead, so not comparable.
SAC will give you a 5th gen fighter called J-11Z.

 

[Mikethedyke]

American demonstrators are dead, so not comparable.
SAC will give you a 5th gen fighter called J-11Z.

By the time J-11Z came out, the US will probably field 7th gen fighter =D

 

[St3@lth]

2015-2020 is very likely

When it's own operational year is between 2017-2019 for China.
Pakistan will get it in 2015-2020.

...........

And J-20 will be costing so much ,i don't think that Pakistan would take it..

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

When it's own operational year is between 2017-2019 for China.
Pakistan will get it in 2015-2020.

...........

And J-20 will be costing so much ,i don't think that Pakistan would take it..

They decide to speed up the deployment of J-20, so it is 2013-2015 for PLAAF, maybe 2018-2020 for PAF.

 

[cloneman]

They decide to speed up the deployment of J-20, so it is 2013-2015 for PLAAF, maybe 2018-2020 for PAF.

PAF has an unofficially "one engine fighter" policy.I doubt if PAF really wants to induce such a heavy fighter like the J-20.And Pakistan is quit busy so far,it has a quite long list to finish,like production of 250 JF-17s,possible induction of the J10B.That is a lot of work,I doubt if it could finish all the work before 2020.It will be too early for PAF to talk about the 5th generation fighter before 2020.

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

You heard wrong, no such information was ever released, what you heard was a rumor started from a blog, this claim becomes even more dubious considering the prototype T-50-1 is only an aerodynamics testbed. Further, even if this was true--sarcasm, the T-50-1 had no RAM, no radar blockers, exposed rivets, and antennas throughout the airframe. Hardly an ideal airframe to perform LO tests on.

The current Pak-fa prototype has a much larger RCS than J-20. If you take a close look the Pak-fa you will see that its engines are completely exposed to radar, you can even see it. You can not see that in F-22, J-20 and JSF.

I hope that Pak-fa's designer will change that, they HAVE to add DSI inlet to hide its engine compressor fan blade or its stealth will be nothing compareing to J-20. Because it is not possible to make stealthy engine fan blade, the compressor fan blade are spining at 5000 RPM making it impossible to be made stealth. You have to deplove DSI inlet other other inlet design to hide it.

In my honest opion. I think the Russians rushed out Pak-fa to shut people up that is why its first prototype is not even well painted like the J-20, the Pak-fa deos NOT have the visual impression of the J-20.

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

The intakes are nothing like the SU-27, but to answer your question radar blockers will do the job. There are many different types such as those on the Super Hornet or even the ones found on the F-117, yes remove the F-117's radar blockers and the compressors blades would be visible.

What???? Radar block will DO THE JOB???

The F-18E/F is FAR Far inferior than F-22 in terms of stealth and even compare with JSF. One of the MAIN reason is the lack of DSI inlet, YOU CAN NOT, YOU CAN NOT create effective stealth design by simply applying radar blocking techniques like the ones on F-18.

The Americans did this because it is IMPOSSIBLE to change F-18 inlet anymore since it is already designed, they added radar blocking techniques on F-18 because it will only reduce the RCS, but noting like the JSF.

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

When it's own operational year is between 2017-2019 for China.
Pakistan will get it in 2015-2020.

...........

And J-20 will be costing so much ,i don't think that Pakistan would take it..

Yes J-20 will be expensive. But Pak-fa will be equally expensive for india. Also india has to invest a lot more money if india wish its own Pak-fa will be as good as J-20.

Russia always sell water down weapons when it comes to export, even though india USED to get better stuff than China in the PAST, now that day is OVER. The Pak-fa Russia export to india will not be as good as its own but very close possiblely 90% as capabable. This means it will be even MORE expensive for india to get 5th gen fighters. Not only it is paying for the development, it has to spend lots more money to BUY it as well.

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

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Russia really needs to hide Pak-fa's engine fan blade. See this? Its stealth is seriously compromised.

 

[ptldM3]

Will the gap between 2 engines or intakes increase some RCS?

It's possible but here is my take, from the side the intakes are no different than other 'stealth' aircraft, that is the intakes are sloped and curved. But once EM energy hits the underside of the fuselage the wave pattern becomes complex and difficult to predict (for us at least), we know that the intakes are a spherical curved body, and we know EM energy travels around curved surfaces, something called 'creeping wave' from this we know that the majority of the energy will scatter away from the aircraft. However, some will likely come in contact with the weapons bays that are housed between the intakes, when this occurs the waves energy should simply be diffracted away from the source of EM energy. Simply put I do not see how the fuselage would cause any significant spike in RCS.

The current Pak-fa prototype has a much larger RCS than J-20. If you take a close look the Pak-fa you will see that its engines are completely exposed to radar, you can even see it. You can not see that in F-22, J-20 and JSF.

The pak-fa prototype is not meant for low observability tests, it's only an aerodynamics test bed; in total there will be between 6-10 prototypes build, the T-50-1 model is simply built to record aerodynamic information. The designers never had a need to install radar blockers, or even cover the rivets, even if they did it would make no sense since the aircraft is full of antennas meant for recording information.

I hope that Pak-fa's designer will change that, they HAVE to add DSI inlet to hide its engine compressor fan blade or its stealth will be nothing compareing to J-20. Because it is not possible to make stealthy engine fan blade, the compressor fan blade are spining at 5000 RPM making it impossible to be made stealth. You have to deplove DSI inlet other other inlet design to hide it.

There are a number of ways to shield the intake compressors, the most talked about is radar blocker, the F-117 had radar blockers and many other aircraft have or had them, other methods involve curved inlets, ect. The important thing is the designers know about this and will not just leave the intake compressors exposed. Even more interesting is that Sukhoi is currently studying flat nozzles, this just shows that the final version will likely be much different than the aerodynamics test bed we see flying.

In any case your argument about radar blockers is plainly wrong considering the F-15 SE has the same frontal RCS as the F-35 and even the F-117 used radar blockers. If i was you i would wory more about the J-20's canards instead telling everyone about how poor the pak-fa is, if you want to know why they are a problem visit the J-20 thread thread for a real explanation, since you think canards do nothing for stealth.

 

[gambit]

What???? Radar block will DO THE JOB???

Yes...The engine is a major contributor and if its front face can be made to be a non-contributor by way of blocker, then the method works.

The F-18E/F is FAR Far inferior than F-22 in terms of stealth and even compare with JSF. One of the MAIN reason is the lack of DSI inlet, YOU CAN NOT, YOU CAN NOT create effective stealth design by simply applying radar blocking techniques like the ones on F-18.

Wrong...Diverterless Supersonic Inlet (DSI) has nothing to do with RCS reduction. Do not mistake the 'diverter' word to mean for impinging radar signals. It is meant for boundary air upon a surface.

The Americans did this because it is IMPOSSIBLE to change F-18 inlet anymore since it is already designed, they added radar blocking techniques on F-18 because it will only reduce the RCS, but noting like the JSF.

Any little bit help. The fact that the larger F-18E/F has a lower RCS value than the previous and smaller F-18 version proved that any little bit does help.