Chinese Aero Engine information thread

[Arthur]

Khan saheb its your nick or you can speak pashtu ?

It's only my nick and also my surname.People used to call me Chotte Khan Saab,thus the nick.
But no Pushtu,bro.

 

[aliaselin]

“发动机不仅是设计出来的，更是试验出来的。”试验环节可谓是在为发动机听诊把脉，通过一系列复杂的“体检”，提升发动机的可靠性与安全性，其责任重大，容不得半点马虎。某型发动机在更高的使用要求下，很多技术难题亟需突破，试验难度大，风险高。面对挑战，中航工业动力所某型发动机研制团队毫不气馁、顶住压力、顽强拼搏，顺利完成排故工作的同时，实现了多项技术创新，高质量完成科研任务，为动力腾飞增强了信心。

科学决策，合理部署。研制团队在时间紧、资源冲突严重的不利条件下，明确工作思路，把握研制重点，制定详细计划，实现了试车时数创新高、高空台试验成“空前”的骄人战绩。2011年试车时数达到千余小时，单个型号的试车时数超过动力所历年所有型号累计试车时数，创造了建所以来整机试车时数新高。同年，两次完成高空台验证试验，且两次高空台试验均没有出现问题，高效优质地完成任务。

在这过程中，总师刘永泉、副总师蔚夺魁以聪明才智和多年经验深入分析，统筹谋划各项工作，较好平衡各专业发展方向，对型号狠抓措施落实，积极谋求任务完成，为发动机研制指明了方向，做好了部署，夯实了基础。研制团队顽强拼搏、甘于奉献，某型发动机试验任务繁重，试验周期紧张，大家开足马力，紧绷神经，确保试验任务顺利进行，不出现任何差池。巨大的压力和高强度的工作，以及高噪声的工作环境，使很多人的身体都有些吃不消。但大家没有因为个人身体的小问题而影响工作，用高度的责任心诠释了敬业奉献的含义。

严格要求，精益求精。某型发动机采用大量新结构、新材料、新工艺等，国内技术基础薄弱，工程研制经验不足。为降低研制风险，研制团队以“早试、多试、严格试”的原则，开展了大量零部件试验、整机试车等工作，并对关键部件加严了试验考核力度，研制工作量远超立项规划要求工作量。为尽早暴露设计问题，提高发动机可靠性，研制团队不畏艰辛、夜以继日，全力保障试车任务开展的同时，对试车中发生的问题，仔细分析原因，挖掘问题根源，再对问题进行修改设计及试验验证，确保满足使用要求。通过努力，发动机工作稳定性和可靠性不断提高，为试飞奠定了技术基础。

成立试验保障团队，加强了对高空台试验的技术保障力度，由副总师牵头指挥，参试人员舍小家、顾大家，连续数十天奋战在试验一线，加班加点试验及处理数据，付出了艰辛和汗水。正因为这个优秀研制团队的努力和奉献，确保了试验顺利进行，对发动机空中工作功能、性能特性进行了有效验证，对数控系统控制稳定性及控制品质进行了有效验证及优化，为降低试飞风险奠定坚实技术基础。

创新思路，集智攻关。研制团队面对新的技术要求，迎难而上，突破创新，创造了首次完成整机超温试验、首次进行整机吞鸟试验等多项第一的成绩。如某发动机为提高发动机高空推力性能，采用了优化的混合加力燃烧室。在生产时间紧、任务重的情况下，研制团队创新设计方法，采用全新三维设计手段，突破技术难题，取得较快进展。还多次与生产厂协调，解决了工艺、工装设计，三维转二维及混排生产等技术难题，使性能攻关工作取得较大进展，按计划完成混合进气加力燃烧室试验，为定型发动机技术状态确定迈出坚实一步。

2009年开始着手的鸟撞试验技术，需要进行庞大而繁杂的工作，研制团队经过五年多的潜心研究，使鸟撞试验技术从无到有、渐趋完善。试验前大量的准备工作和反复的技术验证，为顺利进行试验争取了时间，仅两年，首次静止条件下的鸟撞试验便完成了。但此时大家没有太多时间沉浸在喜悦中，因为接踵而来的旋转条件下鸟撞试验技术的研究已经列上日程，时不我待、埋头钻研，经过一年多的摸索，关键技术被一一突破。2013年中，国内首次航空发动机风扇叶片旋转状态下鸟撞试验成功完成，为某型发动机整体试验任务的完成画上了浓墨重彩的一笔。

某型发动机研制团队立足车台、报效祖国，用朴实无华的行动诠释着精彩的奉献人生，为试验任务顺利完成贡献自己的力量。通过他们不懈的努力，同档次国产发动机性能首次优于进口发动机，大大增强了各方对国产动力的研制信心，为后续型号系列发展和决策创造了有利条件，向着突破动力关键技术的目标迈出了坚实的一步。

WS-13B is better than AL-31F

 

[Akasa]

WS-13B is better than AL-31F

Got any information regarding the PLA's next generation MBT?

 

[aliaselin]

Got any information regarding the PLA's next generation MBT?

1、信息实时化和信息资源共享能力；
2、制导弹药为主弹种，直瞄和间瞄结合，反坦克与反空中目标能力结合；
3、自重40吨左右，能够空地结合机动，时速达到95km左右；
4、软防为主、拦截为辅、装甲为基本。

 

[Beast]

Got any information regarding the PLA's next generation MBT?

Dont be hype by Russian Amata. Next generation tank is still useless. Aircraft is more practical, fast and carries large number of payload to strike enemies rapidly.

 

[aliaselin]

某型发动机改进升级后首飞成功
标志着我国航空发动机研制水平有了进一步提升
2015-04-28 09:44 中国航空新闻网 通讯员 胡汉哲 我要评论0

中国航空新闻网讯：4月23日，经过重大改进、升级后的某型发动机，由中航工业试飞中心中国试飞员学院试飞员杨百兴、高卫东在试飞中心首飞成功，这标志着我国航空发动机研制水平有了进一步提升 。

据该型发动机试飞总师介绍，该型发动机于2014年10月基本完成设计定型试飞。此次改进升级，主要有两大亮点，一是采用了现代航空最前沿的许多新技术、新设备，特别是对发动机的控制、显示等系统进行了重大改进升级，对于发动机操作、控制等方面来说，可以说是一次质的飞跃。二是，以往发动机试飞，通常采用一台原机发动机，搭载一台新发动机，而此次试飞，同时搭载两台改进升级后的新发动机，不仅是通过大量的地面试验和科学的论证评审，也表明了设计、型号等人员对该型发动机可靠性的充分自信。

为了顺利完成任务，承担该型发动机试飞的试飞中心试飞员学院挑选了技术能力强、具有丰富经验的试飞员承担该项任务，并对他们进行了理论改装、座舱实习及考试，对风险点进行了分析，制定了应急处置程序。

据该型发动机试飞员杨百兴介绍，此次试飞非常顺利、圆满，发动机各项参数正常稳定。此次改进升级，使发动机的启动、关车等程序比以前更加简单、便捷、自动化程度更高，各显示系统更加直观，大大的减少了机组操作程序。

WZ10 is on the last step to finalize design

 

[Martian2]

China's indigenous WS-10A turbofan engine is an engineering marvel. It doesn't smoke. This means there is no oil leaking into the engine's combustion chamber. This requires perfect machining of aerospace parts to ensure no oil can leak through an imperfect gap. This requires a 3-micron five-axis CNC machine tool.

Interestingly, recent Russian AL-31 engines are almost smokeless. The older AL-31 engines were very smoky. How do we explain this sudden improvement in Russian Al-31 engines? I postulate that the older model AL-31 engines are still being built with older Russian machine tools. I believe the new almost-smokeless Russian AL-31 engines are being built with Chinese 7 to 35-micron five-axis CNC machine tools.

Russia had to wait until China became a serious industrial power to import restricted micron-level five-axis CNC machine tools. The US prohibits the sale of high-performance five-axis CNC machine tools to Russia and China for military use.
----------

U.S. Precision Machine Tool Industry Is No Longer A Global Competetitive Force | Manufacturing and Technology News

"There are six American companies dedicated to producing five-axis machine tools, and at least 20 in China. Five-axis tools are used for the production of precision components in the aerospace industry...."

----------

China produces a 3-micron five-axis CNC machine tool.

Critical Technology Assessment: Five Axis Simultaneous Control Machine Tools (p. 48)

 

[C130]

that's pretty bad. having to deal with crappy russian engines, now you can produce your own

 

[kuge]

let see if the used engines smoke after 5yrs of operation...

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

let see if the used engines smoke after 5yrs of operation...

I can understand what Martian2 is trying to say but what is your point in your single liner?

A smokeless engine can only means 2 thing - the state-of-art metallurgy resulting in higher operation temperature and precision machining.

RMAF SU-30MKM has been smoking since the day they were inducted in the service.

Now only 5 out of 18 SU-30MKM are only fully operational at any one time, the rest are waiting for spareparts, etc.

I can understand what Martian2 is trying to say but what is your point in your single liner?

A smokeless engine can only means 2 thing - the state-of-art metallurgy resulting in higher operation temperature and precision machining.

RMAF SU-30MKM has been smoking since the day they were inducted in the service.

Now only 5 out of 18 SU-30MKM are only fully operational at any one time, the rest are waiting for spareparts, etc.

A dated article nevertheless relevant to our limited understanding of China Aviation Industries.

ASIA PACIFIC
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2010


Jane's Defence Weekly


China makes modifications to Russian Salyut AL-31F jet engine

Reuben F Johnson JDW Correspondent - Kiev

Key Points
The PLAAF has developed its own upgrade for the Russian-made Salyut AL-31F jet engine

The development demonstrates that the Chinese have achieved near autonomy in supporting their fighters' Russian-made engines


The Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has developed its own service life extension modifications for the Russian-made Salyut AL-31F engine, a Moscow-based defence and foreign policy think-tank has reported.

The modifications to the AL-31F/FN P.2 series engine increase its operational limits by more than 65 per cent - from 900 to 1,500 flight hours, according to the privately owned Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST).

The AL-31F engine is the powerplant for several types of aircraft in the PLAAF inventory: the Sukhoi Su-27 (which is also licence-produced at the Shenyang Aircraft Works as the J-11), the Su-30MKK and the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation J-10. The AL-31FN is a special derivative of the original AL-31F design that was developed by the Salyut plant in Moscow for a single-engine application to be fitted to the J-10.

The service life modifications were reportedly developed at the PLAAF Overhaul Plant Number 5719. The key to the service life extension is a specific set of improved, Chinese-made components that are part of what is described as a "re-manufacturing kit" that is introduced during the process of a full-scale remanufacturing and overhaul process.

The plant is located near the city of Chengdu in Sichuan province, employs 2,000 personnel and is reported to be a model of innovation within the PLAAF's network of repair plants. During the past several years the facility has initiated 63 different research and development programmes and has been awarded more than 20 state prizes for achievements in technological innovation. In the same time period, the plant's assets have more than doubled from CNY1.1 billion (USD147.2 million) in 2004 to CNY2.9 billion today.

The plant's officials credit the success of their overhaul process to a decision taken in 2004, when some of the first AL-31F engines were presented to the plant by the PLAAF for overhaul. A decision was taken, according to the Chinese news sources originally cited, to completely reorganise the overhaul process. This streamlining of the overhaul disassembly and servicing line resulted in a 27.3 per cent decrease in the time required to complete an overhaul and increased the plant's production capacity by 60 per cent.

This level of improvement in the engine's design demonstrates that the Chinese have achieved near autonomy in the support of these Russian-made engines. Russian specialists who spoke to Jane's state that this is "another example of how the technology sold to the Chinese during the 1990s has now been fully assimilated by them. It is only a matter of time before the engines that China produces will be as good as or better than anything designed here in Russia".

AL-31being manufactured by UFA Engine Production Association (UMPO) AG. This is Russia's largest aero engine development and production companies, with 20,000 employees.

 

[razgriz19]

ahh I'm no expert when it comes to engineering, but i did graduate from an aircraft maintenance program.
And i have spent my share of time around airplanes, you can by my DP.

engine smoke isn't entirely based on metallurgy or precision tools to make the parts, its also about understanding the gas path, finding better ways for uniform combustion. A lot of the smoke is just unburnt fuel, and you get that when the nozzles are dirty, interruption in the airflow, fuel not being atomize properly, etc etc

Point being is its a combination of things, and the Chinese are definitely catching up to the west in all departments

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Yes. You are absolutely right... I should have added among others.

But the Russian made AL31 is a widely used and proven powerplant.

So does that means that the WS-10X series is better designed than AL-31, omitting my 2 earlier points?

 

[unleashed]

Good for our JF.
Jalne waloon ka muon kalla..

 

[Mohammad Ryan Farooqi]

How much time does it take to make one as compared to a regular J-35

 

[Manindra]

I can understand what Martian2 is trying to say but what is your point in your single liner?

A smokeless engine can only means 2 thing - the state-of-art metallurgy resulting in higher operation temperature and precision machining.

RMAF SU-30MKM has been smoking since the day they were inducted in the service.

Now only 5 out of 18 SU-30MKM are only fully operational at any one time, the rest are waiting for spareparts, etc.

RMAF operates the same identical flanker version as operated by Indian Air Force .
Our MKI does smoke & I have not seen RMAF MKM smoke during flying.
Can you provide picture of it.

The Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) has developed its own service life extension modifications for the Russian-made Salyut AL-31F engine, a Moscow-based defence and foreign policy think-tank has reported.

The modifications to the AL-31F/FN P.2 series engine increase its operational limits by more than 65 per cent - from 900 to 1,500 flight hours, according to the privately owned Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST).

AL-31 FP engine life is already 1500 hrs.
AL-31FN is not such old engine then why its only 900 hrs ?