China's J-15 Carrier-Based Fighter is Inferior to Russian Su-33 fighter: Russia

[hboGYT]

It is not a question of can Russia offer anything better but a question of what they are willing to offer. Remember China wanted to purchase avionics from the SU-35BM. Russia now has started production of the ZHUK AESA radar, that coupled with many other goodies such as the 142kn TVC'd 117S engine, OLS-35, and IBRIS-E makes Russia's avionics packages very attractive.

That was my original meaning. I fully appreciate the industry-base, technology and know-how accumulated during the Soviet years.

It's like I can't afford a Ferrari because I'm not willing to. I could if I sell heaps of my other belongings.

I think they wanted Su-35's avionics to upgrade their Su-30mkk.

It is likely that the production model of J-10B will be equipped with ASEA. Thence, Russia again will not offer anything significantly better than what the Chinese can make themselves.

If J-15 and J-11B for that matter are copied down to the last nut and bolt, then it's fair to say that the copy <= the original. But, this is clearly not the case here.

 

[topjumper]

PtldM3 is making a good case, but it is not just a case of what Russia is willing to sell to the Chinese, it is also what China is willing to buy from Russia.

There is no doubt that Russia is leading China in many aspects of aviation technology, but the Chinese know they cannot forever keep on buying from Russia just because it is more advanced, they have to be able to rely on themselves otherwise they will always stay behind and will always have to rely on foreign aid for its national defence -- and that is fundamentally unacceptable for China. Hence we are seeing the trend today, the gradual cut down of its purchase of foreign weaponries.

 

[conworldus]

What I never understand about these "experts" is that, J-15 specs are not public, so there is NO way to say if it is better or worse than Su-33. The opinions are pure speculation in nature.

Regardless, we are finally going to have a real carrier bourne fighter. This will be an important step. Let's hope we also drop that skii jump launch BS. It not reduces the combat effectiveness but also is ugly as sin.

 

[laxman]

guy's just alook


J-15

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9193/j15july10.jpg

su-33

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...x1X_FQ4t=1&usg=__aVWIQYEX8KdDXhCMFuM5Hhxq2SQ=


China's rapid advance continues with the first photo appearing of its naval fighter the J-15 designed for its aircraft carrier. While Chinese analysts deny that this is a rip-off of the Russian Su-33, having seen the aircraft analysts say that it is a copy made from a Su-33 prototype that Ukraine sold to China. The radars and weapons will be indigenous.

 

[harry_mohan]

May be Off Topic

But isn't there any law of land, where you can place J 11 and SU 27 side by side and jury can decide that it is violation of copyrights and patents?

OR

I am missing something big time?

 

[Brotherhood]

May be Off Topic

But isn't there any law of land, where you can place J 11 and SU 27 side by side and jury can decide that it is violation of copyrights and patents?

OR

I am missing something big time?

Its off topic for sure, my dear Harrymohan, but at least do some homework before coming back with a new ID.
What violation are you talking about? learn some facts before you flame, OK?

In 1992, China became the first non-CIS country to operate the Sukhoi Su-27 fighter. In 1995, Russian agreed in principle to allow the PRC to build the Su-27SK single-seat fighter locally under license. In 1996, Sukhoi Company (JSC) and SAC entered into a contract worth US$2.5 billion for the co-production of 200 Su-27SK fighters as the J-11. Under the terms of the agreement, Sukhoi/KnAAPO would supply the aircraft in kit form to be assembled in SAC. It was reported that Russia also agreed to help the PRC gradually increase the portion of Chinese-made content on the J-11, so that SAC could eventually produce the aircraft independently.
Jian-11 (J-11, Flanker) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

 

[harry_mohan]

So this is just like Su 30 MKI which India assembles with some parts from Israel and France.

So this means unlike F 7 (Mig 21 copy) China can't produce more than the frames provided by Russia and can't export to any other country? right? Then why there is this J11 B and J 15 which are photo copy of SU 27 and SU 33

This is by far a valid question and not flaming I guess! it's a question about intellectual property right?

 

[Brotherhood]

So this is just like Su 30 MKI which India assembles with some parts from Israel and France.

So this means unlike F 7 (Mig 21 copy) China can't produce more than the frames provided by Russia and can't export to any other country? right? Then why there is this J11 B and J 15 which are photo copy of SU 27 and SU 33

This is by far a valid question and not flaming I guess! it's a question about intellectual property right?

My dear Harrymohan, since when you started to get so interesting in defence issues other than women? sorry to say that, but its better to stick to something you are more familiar with=women abuse topic than defence, do you even know you need knowledge even to flame?

And when even Russian had no issue with the so-called copy right, why you are so concerned? BTW, there are no "patents" regarding weapons.

News headlines July 19, 2010 18:06

Russia has no questions to China about “copying” military equipment

FARNBOROUGH. July 19 (Interfax-AVN) - China is using Russian and Soviet know-how to develop and build aircraft, Alexander Fomin, first deputy head of the Federal Military-Technical Cooperation Service, said at a news conference at the Farnborough air show.

"It is an accomplished fact. China is vigorously developing its defense industry, not without Russia's assistance, of course," he said.

The Soviet Union built about 3,000 enterprises, while Russia handed China licenses to make aircraft and components," he said.

"We handed over a large amount of know-how to China, including information related to the defense industry. It is not surprising that it repeats itself in Chinese products," he said.

Asked whether China has developed a fighter jet which it claims excels Russia's Sukhoi Su-33, Fomin said, "I can neither confirm, nor deny this."

"Concerning the Su-33, Russia did not deliver such planes to China. If our Chinese partners have them, they were not received from Russian sources," he said.

Fomin said Russia has no questions to China so far. "We have an agreement on the protection of intellectual property rights. If we uncover copyright violations, we will deal with this within the framework of the agreement," Fomin said.

(Our editorial staff can be reached at eng.editors@interfax.ru)
Russia has no questions to China about “copying” military equipment - Interfax
PS, better worry more about your dual ID violation instead, your little trick of showing up with your little brother is nothing new.

 

[graphican]

guy's just alook


J-15

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9193/j15july10.jpg

su-33

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...x1X_FQ4t=1&usg=__aVWIQYEX8KdDXhCMFuM5Hhxq2SQ=

Second image, that of Su-33 doesn't open.

 

[harry_mohan]

@Brotherhood -: I think I read somewhere Russia has threatened China if it carry on with J 15 it is going to sue with infringement.

As far as women is concerned, you or somebody hitted with toilet issues and I pressed the paining nerves of Chinese with respect to their women. Tit for tat that's it.

I have seen more world than you or most of the others, so can't sit back quiet everybody has weaknesses, just exploit it, what say??

At least I am Man enough to come with same name/ ID unlike most of you peeps?? What say about this??

 

[canadakz]

That was my original meaning. I fully appreciate the industry-base, technology and know-how accumulated during the Soviet years.

It's like I can't afford a Ferrari because I'm not willing to. I could if I sell heaps of my other belongings.

I think they wanted Su-35's avionics to upgrade their Su-30mkk.

It is likely that the production model of J-10B will be equipped with ASEA. Thence, Russia again will not offer anything significantly better than what the Chinese can make themselves.

If J-15 and J-11B for that matter are copied down to the last nut and bolt, then it's fair to say that the copy <= the original. But, this is clearly not the case here.

correction, chinese wants their mkk to be a dedicated attack craft not turning their mkk into an upgraded mki. it does not fire any kind of BVR missiles. If you look at the range of mkk, you will see that its range is already close to H-6 bomber, the only bomber plaf has. the most urgent role for mkk not air superiority but a supersonic bomber. on the other hand, AESA will reduce the range and carrying capacity of mkk due to its weight and power consumption. the two most important advantages of AESA are its ability to avoid jamming through frequency change and its ability to guide long range ARH missile and neither of these advantages will greatly enhace a medium rage supersonic bomber.

 

[canadakz]

It is not a question of can Russia offer anything better but a question of what they are willing to offer. Remember China wanted to purchase avionics from the SU-35BM. Russia now has started production of the ZHUK AESA radar, that coupled with many other goodies such as the 142kn TVC'd 117S engine, OLS-35, and IBRIS-E makes Russia's avionics packages very attractive.

Russian offered China with Su-35BM in the zhuhai air show in 2007 and then again in 2009, there is no direct reply from the Chinese side though.

 

[canadakz]

Despite Russia's crapy avionics on offer, they always claim to be better than the Chinese version.

It's the same thing with the J-11B controversy, the Russian's claiming that a "copy" is always worse than the original (Su-27SK). It's false. J-11B at least has a planar array radar that supports ARH AAM. Su-27SK is just obsolete.

I'm guessing the Russians can't offer anything better than what the Chinese have for Su-33 either.

many people conveniently ignore the fact that Su-27sk is incapable of firing ARH AAM while the chinese "copy" can. Saying that Su-27sk is better than J-11a means that Su-27 are so maneuverable that it can outmaneuver missile attack from beyond visual range. then why does russia bother with Pak-fa, their fighters can already outmaneuver missiles, f-22 or any other fighters have to rely on aircraft gun to down a Su-27. from the korean war records, russians are much better at dog fight than the americans.

 

[Donatello]

Obviously the Russians will say it is inferior. Just like MIG 29 and JF-17s....

 

[Akasa]

LOL the Russian prime minister said himself that the T-50 is "better than the F-22". I guess we should all listen to these experts, then.

Completely new avionics, completely new FBW, completely new weapons, completely new cockpit, and completely new everything else except for the airframe (even that is stealthier). Inferior? Funny.

So, according to the Russians, an AESA radar is inferior to the 1980s avionics of the Su-33? A digital cockpit is inferior to an analog one? An airframe with RAM on it is inferior to an airframe that doesn't?