China’s export controls on gallium likely to hit US defense industry: experts

[CIA Mole]

Almost all of China's mining companies are state-owned enterprises. They will fully implement the decisions of the Chinese government.

we will see in time what happens

 

[MH.Yang]

The ban from China will help Western countries speed up production and solve any technical problems.

Previously, Obama had banned the export of chips for supercomputers, and a year later, China had domestic chips to replace products from the West. If Obama can see the future, he will continue to sell chips to China. It won't stop China from creating its own products, but it will slow down Chinese research and help American corporations make more money.

Now, China bans the export of gallium. Could it weaken or collapse the US military-industrial system? The answer is "No". It only prompts the US to look for supplies from friendly countries or to research better technologies to replace it.

1, Gallium is a by-product of the electrolytic aluminum industry.

2, The aluminum electrolysis industry requires large amounts of electricity and water. The amount of electricity needed by this industry affects the development and demand of other industries. In 1990s, China strictly banned the development of electrolytic aluminum industry in order to protect the electricity used by other industries. So don't expect countries like Vietnam and India to invest in electrolytic aluminum plants. Except for China and Russia, only a few developed countries have rich electricity and water.

3, It takes about 10 years to build a new electrolytic aluminum plant of a certain size.

4, China can always re-sell gallium at low prices and destroy the new plants, so, no private capital will be willing to invest in electrolytic aluminum plants. It can only rely on direct investment from the government.

 

[dbc]

You are defintely not doing RF.

What does that mean?

 

[Song Hong]

RF engineers, especially those specialize in radar will know the importance of gallium.

There are really no alternatives in modern radar, unless west want to build their radar with silicon -- which will retard the system by 20-30 years.

 

[MeFishToo]

Reading this forum could lead you to believe that gallium originates from the Arc of the Covenant, guarded by China only to be used in radars.

 

[Song Hong]

Reading this forum could lead you to believe that gallium originates from the Arc of the Covenant, guarded by China only to be used in radars.

You can use many material for radar. The key of gallium is high power + high frequency + miniaturization.

No one stop USA from using silicon to build 1700 TR module and put it on F35.

Your aircraft likely requires 5x the surface area.

 

[etylo]

US had already fully understood the likely Chinese retaliation after chip hardware manufacturing blockage. Even in this trade episode, the Chinese have not blocked any Rare Element sale, just put some controls on it to block its exports it in the future, if needed.

The Chinese are so afraid of American anger that the Americans if angry, could put 10% or 20% duty on all Chinese imports. That will shutdown most factories in China. That will be a beginning of another revolution in China and overthrow the current Communist Party regime.

I am sure that Chinese will not ban Rare Elements export but control it. They know the bad consequences.

Moreover US needs 3 to 4 years to shift a lot of manufacture out of China. In this matter the US has already warmed up with India. All India needs is FDI on the same scale as was sent to China from 1995 till 2010. Already Technologically, india is very advanced. It needs money and help here and there.

Lol, like the Americans haven't levied 20% or 30% tariffs on many Chinese products now and who are paying those tariffs in the end ? Certainly, not Chinese producers. Yeah, Chinese are very scared of your master US tariffs.

 

[MeFishToo]

You can use many material for radar. The key of gallium is high power + high frequency + miniaturization.

No one stop USA from using silicon to build 1700 TR module and put it on F35.

Your aircraft likely requires 5x the surface area.


View attachment 937343

Point is nothing could prevent the JSF program using gallium for whatever they seem fit on the F-35.

 

[dbc]

1, Gallium is a by-product of the electrolytic aluminum industry.

2, The aluminum electrolysis industry requires large amounts of electricity and water. The amount of electricity needed by this industry affects the development and demand of other industries. In 1990s, China strictly banned the development of electrolytic aluminum industry in order to protect the electricity used by other industries. So don't expect countries like Vietnam and India to invest in electrolytic aluminum plants. Except for China and Russia, only a few developed countries have rich electricity and water.

3, It takes about 10 years to build a new electrolytic aluminum plant of a certain size.

4, China can always re-sell gallium at low prices and destroy the new plants, so, no private capital will be willing to invest in electrolytic aluminum plants. It can only rely on direct investment from the government.

The most common industrial method for extracting Aluminum Oxide (Alumina) is the Bayer Process. Gallium is obtained by processing Bayer Liquor the by product of the Bayer Process. Electrolysis is a downstream process on the Aluminum Oxide (Alumina) produced by the Bayer Process to make Aluminum.

Manufacturing of alumina through Bayer process

Alumina: Alumina also known as Aluminium Oxide is an amphoteric oxide comprising of aluminium and oxygen. Alumina is symbolised as Al2O3. Alumina has the appearance of white solid like table salt. Alumina has a boiling point of 2980 degree Celsius and melting point of 2040 degree Celsius. Its...

www.worldofchemicals.com

Bayer liquor is the biggest raw material resource for gallium production. Four kinds of methods have been developed to recover gallium from Bayer solutions, including fractional precipitation, electrochemical deposition, solvent extraction, and ion exchange. Recovery of gallium from Bayer liquor: A review Bayer liquor is the biggest raw material resource for gallium production. Four kinds of methods have been developed to recover gallium from Bayer solu… www.sciencedirect.com

@gambit I’m proud to now introduce to you Chinese Chemistry since you are the coiner of the term Chinese Physics

 

[dbc]

RF engineers, especially those specialize in radar will know the importance of gallium.

There are really no alternatives in modern radar, unless west want to build their radar with silicon -- which will retard the system by 20-30 years.

You know there is 3 billion tons of Bayer red mud (BRM) - the by product of aluminum extraction in the world, the US has a 100 million tons. How much Gallium do you think we can extract from a 100 million tons of red mud?

Answer: 8,000 Tons of Gallium that’s enough Gallium for the next 100 years

 

[MH.Yang]

The most common industrial method for extracting Aluminum Oxide (Alumina) is the Bayer Process. Gallium is obtained by processing Bayer Liquor the by product of the Bayer Process. Electrolysis is a downstream process on the Aluminum Oxide (Alumina) produced by the Bayer Process to make Aluminum.

Manufacturing of alumina through Bayer process

Alumina: Alumina also known as Aluminium Oxide is an amphoteric oxide comprising of aluminium and oxygen. Alumina is symbolised as Al2O3. Alumina has the appearance of white solid like table salt. Alumina has a boiling point of 2980 degree Celsius and melting point of 2040 degree Celsius. Its...

www.worldofchemicals.com

Bayer liquor is the biggest raw material resource for gallium production. Four kinds of methods have been developed to recover gallium from Bayer solutions, including fractional precipitation, electrochemical deposition, solvent extraction, and ion exchange. Recovery of gallium from Bayer liquor: A review Bayer liquor is the biggest raw material resource for gallium production. Four kinds of methods have been developed to recover gallium from Bayer solu… www.sciencedirect.com

@gambit I’m proud to now introduce to you Chinese Chemistry since you are the coiner of the term Chinese Physics

If I understand you correctly, you mean: to avoid consuming electricity and water, you are going to extract gallium from bauxite only, and then abandon the main product, aluminum?

Do you know how high the production cost of this gallium will be?

 

[dbc]

If I understand you correctly, you mean: to avoid consuming electricity and water, you are going to extract gallium from bauxite only, and then abandon the main product, aluminum?

Do you know how high the production cost of this gallium will be?

Nope, Bauxite Bayer Process Alumina Electrolysis Aluminum this the most common method for producing Aluminum.

the byproduct of Bayer process is Bayer liquor / Bayer Mud from which gallium is extracted.

Like I said before, the US has over a 100 million tons of Bayer mud from production of aluminum over the last seventy years. Bayer Mud is toxic so it is stored In a seep proof pool.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Here's my take.

In Semiconductor Industry United States is Strongest, China weakest. If China try to fight in this front it cannot win.
However there are many industry where China is strongest and US is weakest.
This is where China will now open a new front. Gallium and Germanium is this new front.

All this does is just make the US source their REM somewhere else.

Blocking REM to the US is like when the chinese blocked the sales of pickled chicken feet. (true story look it up)

China is so low down the negotiation table that it's pretty much laughable.

 

[antonius123]

You know there is 3 billion tons of Bayer red mud (BRM) - the by product of aluminum extraction in the world, the US has a 100 million tons. How much Gallium do you think we can extract from a 100 million tons of red mud?

Answer: 8,000 Tons of Gallium that’s enough Gallium for the next 100 years

The technology for extracting gallium from red mud is still relatively new, and it is not yet clear how long it will take for the technology to become mature enough to be commercially viable.

As of now, although there are a number of companies that are working on developing the technology to do, no company has yet commercially extracted gallium from red mud.

 

[dbc]

The technology for extracting gallium from red mud is still relatively new, and it is not yet clear how long it will take for the technology to become mature enough to be commercially viable.

As of now, although there are a number of companies that are working on developing the technology to do, no company has yet commercially extracted gallium from red mud.

why do you people make stuff up? gallium extraction from Bayer Red Mud/ Liquor is the most common method of gallium Production- it’s not new technology.

Gallium has been recovered on an industrial scale from such spent, impurity-rich Bayer process liquor by a number of different methods, including fractional precipitation, electrolysis, cementation and ion exchange with amidoxime-functionalized resins.14 Of these methods, ion exchange is currently considered the most effective, resulting in it being the most widely applied. Extraction of gallium from simulated Bayer process liquor by Kelex 100 dissolved in ionic liquids - Dalton Transactions (RSC Publishing) DOI:10.1039/C9DT04623B pubs.rsc.org