China's capital orders Arabic, Muslim symbols taken down

[Rasengan]

Yup some of my big families like to go there but as I said previously I dont have any interest to go there for vacation, not only because it will be hard for finding halal food but also not many mosque can be found there, in Indonesia and also in many Muslim countries there are so many places to pray, even our malls are usually equipped with place to pray. It is why there are so many Arabs visiting Indonesia for vacations.

I agree with your sentiment. One of the best things in visiting other Muslim countries is hearing the azaan and having the facilities to pray where ever you are in a public place. Furthermore, praying collectively with other Muslim brothers makes the experience much better rather than doing it on your own. But in Britain the size of the Muslim population is large, therefore, finding restaurants is much easier than it was 20 years ago and there is a mosque always nearby in major cities.

Pakistan and Turkey are two countries that I would like to visit beside Saudi. I had watched the video you posted before and I also have seen so many Mountainous Pakistan picture posted by Ghazi. They are very beautiful. The food I bet is great as I have watched Mark Wein and Food ranger visit to Pakistan. What kind of Pakistani food do you recommend me to eat ? There is Pakistani restaurant in Jakarta and I would like to come there some day.

Pakistan is a unique place. We have snow, mountain, deserts, and good beaches. The food is amazing, and it depends upon which region you are staying in. If you are in Lahore then you must go to food street and have Nihari, Haleem, Karahi from Butt and Paya. Each region in Pakistan has its own take on these recipes. If you are in KPK then you must try Chapali Kebab, Pilau Rice, Nisar Charsi Kebab barbeque. My personal favorite dish is Namak Gosht Karahi. There are many more dishes. In Karachi and Hyderabad, they make the best Biryani hands down. Karachi is also very good for its seafood especially prawn karahi. There also other dishes like Takatak and butter chicken. In Balochistan, you must try Sajji, Rosh, Khadi Kebab, Landhi, Pirki, and Abgoosht. The lists can go on.

So you have been in North Korea, it is a rare experiment, not many people have opportunity to go there.

It was a unique experience. My Chinese friend offered me to go to Pyongyang but I refused because they would have made me bow down to the statues of Kim Il Sung. Instead, I went to Dangdong which borders North Korea and took a boat trip opposite to spend a day there. I didn't like the experience. There was no street light from
North Korea except for military headlights used to stop people from leaving and to shoot them on the spot. On the Dangdong bridge which also has a railway line, you can watch North Korean cities on a binocular. There were no people inside the building but fakes dolls. You have to be careful what you say in Dangdong since there are many North Korean spies. I wouldn't recommend going there.

Ya, my mother is a devout Muslim, she is used to pray Tahajjud every night. My father is also the same, always do night prayer but he has passed away.

Ma'sha'allah. There are many blessings and rewards when a person prays Tahajjud. I'm sorry to hear about your father's passing. In'sha'allah he will enter the gates of paradise.

No, Mahathir is not a Minang but Malaysian First Prime Minister and founding father (Tunku Abdurrahman) is a Minang. Yup, you are right, The Minang is the people in Indonesia who are among the first to embrace Islam as it is located in Sumatra island. But the very first Indonesian ethnic to embrace Islam is Acehnese and they also live in Sumatra island. The place is near Malacca Strait so that is the reason.

The Minang is famous with its politician and entrepreneurship despite only have about 5,5 million people. One of states in Malaysia which is Negeri Sambilan is ruled by Minangnese kingdom. The first President of Singapore (Yusof Ishak) is also a Minangnese. Bung Hatta, one of Indonesian Independence proclamator beside Soekarno is also a Minang. I have made a thread about Indonesian ethnicities in here with the first post is about Minang people https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/unity-in-diversity-indonesian-ethnic-groups.621016/

Thank you for educating me on the history of Indonesia. I want to study Muslim history in this region. For such a small group they have done well for themselves. Each country has a group of people who are very talented in business. In Pakistan, one of the best businessmen are Memon who were originally from Gujarat in India. Some of the best businessmen in India have their roots from Gujarat. Is the culture, food and clothing style different between the Minang and Acehnese? I will look at this thread. Are you from the Minang community? Thank you, for sending me the names of those movies, I'm going to watch them when I have time. I agree with Pakistani/Indo crosses are stunning. I think I need to find myself an Indonesia wife

 

[Itachi]

What you said could be true, but as I said in my previous post on this thread, I will also visit Xinjiang in the future to determine if this is true. China is a big ally of Pakistan but that doesn't mean I will accept their religious prosecution of Muslims. End of the day it won't be good for the region and inside China. I hope the CPC Govt uses its common sense. If they don't then Pakistan as an ally can guide them to improve the situation. I know the Chinese Govt wants to foster good links with the Muslim world, but this can only be successful if they treat its Muslim population with dignity. Since 1978, China has evolved and progressed significantly they shouldn't under no circumstances go back to Maoism.

Right, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Only boots/people on the ground that we can trust can let us know what happening but seeing as similar news has been coming from all kinds of sources about the persecution of Uyghurs (Turks, Indonesians/Malays, Western Media and out of China Uyghurs). I kinda believe they'll take this step.


Who can stop them??

The West only care to separate China and the Muslim world, they don't care about the Uyghurs. Pakistan can't act because it's in a relationship (economic, financial & military) with China. And none of the other countries other than Turkey can do much about it.

We also have to take into account that Xinjiang (East Turkestan if we follow what it's real name was and what locals call it too) was annexed by Communist China not long ago. This isn't their land, the Han Chinese civilization belongs near the Yangtze and the Yellow River just like we, Pakistanis, belong to the Indus and not the Ganga or Bengali rivers.

Historically, China never expanded past the desert/land of Tibet as you can see below:

You can see above how there's a big divide in the green east and the desert west. And historically, Chinese (Han, Yuan, Tang, etc etc) have lived in the Eastern part.

All their major cities are located near the Pacific Ocean too!

But this is a topic for another thread.

But yea, I believe East Turkestan doesn't belong to China, just like Kashmir or Palestine doesn't belong to outsiders.

 

[denel]

What you said could be true, but as I said in my previous post on this thread, I will also visit Xinjiang in the future to determine if this is true. China is a big ally of Pakistan but that doesn't mean I will accept their religious prosecution of Muslims. End of the day it won't be good for the region and inside China. I hope the CPC Govt uses its common sense. If they don't then Pakistan as an ally can guide them to improve the situation. I know the Chinese Govt wants to foster good links with the Muslim world, but this can only be successful if they treat its Muslim population with dignity. Since 1978, China has evolved and progressed significantly they shouldn't under no circumstances go back to Maoism.



I follow the same principle. When I first landed in China, my experience was extremely difficult on the first month because I had no idea where the halal restaurants were. Pakistani's are predominately meat eaters...I need my meat to survive. The funny thing was the Muslim district in Beijing was only two streets away from my residence. Oh, well, at least I got there in the end. The Halal symbol is the best sign, you don't need to learn the language its universal among Muslim's. Therefore, the person I quoted was talking BS. I agree the Uyghurs and Hui are different. I love Hui culture, they have there own martial arts, food and clothing style. They were the most formidable fighters in Chinese history and during the war against Japan.




This policy is wrong. I want the Uyghur people to assimilate into Chinese society, but I am referring to social harmony between the communities. There is a big divide that exists I have never denied this. However, Hu Angang is a very controversial figure in China. He has been heavily criticized in China, and there were calls from the public demanding his expulsion from the University. Some of his suggestion is in direct conflict with Li Keqiang. The CPC Govt should not adopt this policy. In my opinion, the generation which wasn't affected by the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution will bring China in the right direction. Most of them would have been educated in the west and they won't be narrow-minded. But only time will tell us this answer. I hope for China's sake they will do it.



I agree the Chinese must reciprocate the gesture. If they have a problem with a Halal sign then they are in serious trouble of inflaming the situation. When you respect and give dignity to people then they will reciprocate. If they don't then members from there own community will criticize them. Things are always changing in China, thus it is my hope when I visit the region I can find out the truth.

Yes, please visit Turpan and outlying towns, mosques are shut down; in the villages - mosques have been completely razed to the ground. Friday prayers which had hundreds are only populated by less than 40; where are the young people gone? That is the question - just last year or 2 it was opposite; you have to look at Food Ranger's videos where he was travelling and it was amazing to see openness and frankness including friday prayers where thousands were.

Regretfully these Gang of Four have been re-invigorated when they did the same then; amongst the Hui there is now transliteration of arabic into chinese script so that those who cannot read arabic will get to hifz the texts with the pronounciations.

My professor colleague who visits annually to China and spends months there including in Xian; this year said for the first time he felt very uncomfortable and how difficult life has become as a muslim.

 

[Type59]

Am i correct to say china under cultural revolution destroyed alot of historical artifacts. Seems like something religious nutters like Taliban or Isis have done.

Personally minorities regardless of beliefs and culture should be protected as stated by international law. China is a permanent member of UN, so should adhere to the principles of the organisation.

If someone is considered "backward" are they still not human, worthy of repect? Some people on this forum seem like they subscribe to racial and cultural supremacy. No doubt they probably firmly believe rich people are better then poor people. Watch George Orwells animal farm.

 

[kankan326]

What thousands; the people who killed own chinese in the millions were the Communist parties themselves. Let us not forget what PLA did in Tiannenmin square or how many thousands disappeared as Falongong followers.

Show me what happened to that brave civilian who stood in front of the PLA tanks or is it something you cannot even see or allowed to be seen.

There is a deliberate policy to over populate Tibet/XInjiang with han chinese as well.

If I told you that 160 years ago, Chinese Muslim killed millions Han Chinese. Did you even hear this history? By the way, most Chinese people now support what the CCP did in 1989. Those people would be killed for many times for what they did if they were in America.

 

[Itachi]

If I told you that 160 years ago, Chinese Muslim killed millions Han Chinese. Did you even hear this history? By the way, most Chinese people now support what the CCP did in 1989. Those people would be killed for many times for what they did if they were in America.

You can take this bs back to China, it's not gonna fly on PDF.

You got source(s) for this figure??

Is Mao a Muslim?? He killed millions of Han Chinese. More than Hitler killed the Jews, by several magnitude too.

 

[kankan326]

Historically, China never expanded past the desert/land of Tibet as you can see below:

Learn more Chinese history

You can take this bs back to China, it's not gonna fly on PDF.

You got source(s) for this figure??

Is Mao a Muslim?? He killed millions of Han Chinese. More than Hitler killed the Jews, by several magnitude too.

Check this. Muslims killed millions of Chinese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungan_Revolt_(1862–77)
Mao killed millions of Chinese? How did you get the number of "millions"? From western media?

 

[Type59]

Learn more Chinese history

Check this. Muslims killed millions of Chinese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungan_Revolt_(1862–77)
Mao killed millions of Chinese? How did you get the number of "millions"? From western media?

Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[Itachi]

Learn more Chinese history

You learn some Chinese history and basic English

Historically, China never expanded past the desert/land of Tibet

You can see that in the video you posted above. Anything beyond the Tibet region was vassal of China, that too for a period of time. Han/Chinese civ. has been and still is based around Eastern China, not Western China like Xinjiang.

Check this. Muslims killed millions of Chinese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungan_Revolt_(1862–77)
Mao killed millions of Chinese? How did you get the number of "millions"? From western media?

LOL your wiki doesn't show any numbers....just facts that the Hui (also Muslim) helped your dying Qing Empire.

And look what the Hui got in the end.

Mao killed millions of Chinese? How did you get the number of "millions"? From western media?

Ever heard of the Cultural Revolution?? The Great Leap?? And many other of Mao and the CCP's many many amazing ideas that killed millions of Chinese?

Or do they not teach that in China??

Ever heard of the Tiananmen Square??

Let me get even more recent lol....the Hong Kong protest!

HK'ers don't want to be part of your draconian state....simply said....that's why they're protesting and being arrested. I have personally met many HK'ers here in the US that all (99.99%) don't want HK to integrate back into China.

What about China's threat to forcibly takeover Taiwan? You think Taiwan will rollover? There won't be any casualties?

Don't even get me started on the Chinese Civil War where you all killed each other in millions or even go back in your magnificent history of killing each other for the past 3,000 years lol

Others fight Outsiders but the Chinese have killed each other for a long long time. That's a fact.

 

[vi-va]

Right, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Only boots/people on the ground that we can trust can let us know what happening but seeing as similar news has been coming from all kinds of sources about the persecution of Uyghurs (Turks, Indonesians/Malays, Western Media and out of China Uyghurs). I kinda believe they'll take this step.


Who can stop them??

The West only care to separate China and the Muslim world, they don't care about the Uyghurs. Pakistan can't act because it's in a relationship (economic, financial & military) with China. And none of the other countries other than Turkey can do much about it.

We also have to take into account that Xinjiang (East Turkestan if we follow what it's real name was and what locals call it too) was annexed by Communist China not long ago. This isn't their land, the Han Chinese civilization belongs near the Yangtze and the Yellow River just like we, Pakistanis, belong to the Indus and not the Ganga or Bengali rivers.

Historically, China never expanded past the desert/land of Tibet as you can see below:

You can see above how there's a big divide in the green east and the desert west. And historically, Chinese (Han, Yuan, Tang, etc etc) have lived in the Eastern part.

All their major cities are located near the Pacific Ocean too!

But this is a topic for another thread.

But yea, I believe East Turkestan doesn't belong to China, just like Kashmir or Palestine doesn't belong to outsiders.

History said differently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_dynasty

 

[Itachi]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

Don't be easy on this propagandist and half-truth liers......all his links proved nothing.

The people in that wiki rebelled against the Qing Empire but the Qing won in the end....majority of the deaths were caused by a famine...not by any Muslims.

Actually, according to his wiki link, the Hui Muslims helped the Qing Empire (which was dying and died during the World Wars).....look how the Hui got paid back.

History said differently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_dynasty

Nope, you can't read English. The Western Part wasn't part of the Han Empire thus the color change. Please don't show you low IQ level.

It was a vassal state which later got independent too. You gotta stop on the CCP propaganda injections.

History said differently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_dynasty

Shots fired.

 

[kankan326]

You can see that in the video you posted above. Anything beyond the Tibet region was vassal of China, that too for a period of time. Han/Chinese civ. has been and still is based around Eastern China, not Western China like Xinjiang.

The history of China owning Tibet and Xingjiang is even longer than US history. If Tibet and Xingjiang don't belong to China(Han) for history reasons, how would you treat US?

 

[Itachi]

The history of China owning Tibet and Xingjiang is even longer than US history. If Tibet and Xingjiang don't belong to China(Han) for history reasons, how would you treat US?

Already answered this question in a previous thread. The US and it's inhabitants are colonizers not occupants.

They killed the natives which is a shameful act but so have many civilizations since the dawn of time. Not saying the US is right or wrong, it just doesn't have a moral standing since it has killed the natives, mostly.

On the other hand, it has also invited all kinds of races, ethnicities and nationalities from across the world, including Chinese people, who have come here in droves to escape from your harsh country. Especially in the past 6 decades.

But, we're not discussing the US here now...we're discussing China....don't change the topic.

Going back to Xinjiang...it belongs to the Muslim Chinese who have lived there for the last thousand years. Long before many of your dynasties and certainly your beloved CCP & modern China.

Btw...this is what this shitposter has to say for "Muslims".

^ Easily endorsing "bullying as a humanity" like who da f... thinks like that!!?

 

[kankan326]

The people in that wiki rebelled against the Qing Empire but the Qing won in the end....majority of the deaths were caused by a famine...not by any Muslims.

You sure know nothing about this event. The history background of Muslim revolt is, Qing government sent most of its troops in north to south China to fight with Taiping revolt. The Muslims in north China wanted to take this chance to establish an Islamic country(Sounds familiar?). They simply took genocide method to Hans.

See below Chinese version wiki. Han Chinese lost 4 million population in Shanxi province and lost 8 million population in Gansu province. This is huge. But few people outside China know it. Weird world,eh?

Easily endorsing "bullying as a humanity" like who da f... thinks like that!!?

Don't use google translation. I never said "bullying as a humaninty"

 

[vi-va]

You can take this bs back to China, it's not gonna fly on PDF.

You got source(s) for this figure??

Is Mao a Muslim?? He killed millions of Han Chinese. More than Hitler killed the Jews, by several magnitude too.

Without knowing China history at all, you better talk something else you knew.