China's capital orders Arabic, Muslim symbols taken down

[ZeEa5KPul]

Oh, look, another endless whine on PDF about China's Chinese Muslim policies. We've got all the usual suspects warning about some vague consequences in some unspecified future. Face it, the only thing that'll happen in the future is that China becomes even more powerful than it is now.

Accept that China's internal policies are what they are and you can't do sh*t to change them. Just spare yourself the heartache and don't think about them. Finally, this is too delicious not to comment on:

What did work for Moscow? Embracing it, Chechnya is a prime example.

Embracing, huh? Like Russia "embraced" Grozny with these?

It seems like you're making an argument for overwhelming violence. Luckily for us all, China is too civilized for that. And the USSR is not an example of anything; the USSR was weak, China is strong.

 

[prashantazazel]

There is little evidence to support your claim outside the sub Continent as well.

Most of the major powers of the world, including Western Europe, US and China are moving in that direction. Saudi maybe the only significant exception amongst developed countries.

 

[El Sidd]

Most of the major powers of the world, including Western Europe, US and China are moving in that direction. Saudi maybe the only significant exception amongst developed countries.

That is entirely wrong. Just because people are taking their names out of the religion list to avoid taxation or otherwise does not mean religion is dying.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Never have i ever in china seen arabic symbols in china. Only non chinese symbols that exist in cities are mongolian and russian languages along with turkish (turkic) uyghurcha which uses arabic kinda old personalized urdu looking script.

These are there because they are regional sub lamguages of the people.

Even quran is read in chinese in china. No one says Allah they say Zhen ju, (Real only God) they dont say Quran they say Qulanjin. They don't name mohamamd they write and pronounce Ma instead.

Its their own culture and country who are you to judge? Chinese muslims iv seen are better than pakistani or turkish muslims in practice and understanding of the religion..

China never liked foreign influences.. Thats why Mohammad PBUH gave permission to his uncle who was ambassador of islam to china, permission was given to learn quran in chinese language and keep records of chinese language with atleast one master copy in arabic. Even their call for prayer was in chinese. Permission given by the Prophet PBUH himself to chinese people.

Mohammad's (PBUH) uncle the embassador is even burried there in guanzhou city alomg with 2 other sahabaz. How many sahaba are burried in pakistan? India? Turkey?


After arab region islam thrived in china with in Mohammad PBUH'S life.


Stupid foreign muslims of 2020 now think they are better than muslims of china and elsewhere... Country and culture are independant of ur faith..

Do you think Mohammad PBUH came to make all human beings into arabs??? That he wanted us to dress like arabs ? Write and read only arabic? Communicate in arabic ???

How stupid and naive are muslims of 2020.. Tisk tisk...

 

[vi-va]

Never have i ever in china seen arabic symbols in china. Only non chinese symbols that exist in cities are mongolian and russian languages along with turkish (turkic) uyghurcha which uses arabic kinda old personalized urdu looking script.

These are there because they are regional sub lamguages of the people.

Even quran is read in chinese in china. No one says Allah they say Zhen ju, (Real only God) they dont say Quran they say Qulanjin. They don't name mohamamd they write and pronounce Ma instead.

Its their own culture and country who are you to judge? Chinese muslims iv seen are better than pakistani or turkish muslims in practice and understanding of the religion..

China never liked foreign influences.. Thats why Mohammad PBUH gave permission to his uncle who was ambassador of islam to china, permission was given to learn quran in chinese language and keep records of chinese language with atleast one master copy in arabic. Even their call for prayer was in chinese. Permission given by the Prophet PBUH himself to chinese people.

Mohammad's (PBUH) uncle the embassador is even burried there in guanzhou city alomg with 2 other sahabaz. How many sahaba are burried in pakistan? India? Turkey?


After arab region islam thrived in china with in Mohammad PBUH'S life.


Stupid foreign muslims of 2020 now think they are better than muslims of china and elsewhere... Country and culture are independant of ur faith..

Do you think Mohammad PBUH came to make all human beings into arabs??? That he wanted us to dress like arabs ? Write and read only arabic? Communicate in arabic ???

How stupid and naive are muslims of 2020.. Tisk tisk...

Thank you for those info above, especially the history.

 

[obj 705A]

I have already said every thing that I wanted to on this thread but there is one more thing directed to the Pakistani members here particularly those who are crying for Xinjiang:-

forget about the alleged oppresion of the Uyghurs... even if China feeds the Hui & the Uyghurs to the Lions and passes a law that openly denouces Islam & calls for capital punisment against any Chinese who adopts Islam, it is non of your business what China does with its own people, it is completely disrespectfull and quite shamefull for you to interfere with China's internal affairs, why you may ask? well isnt that obvious? the Uyghurs are not Pakistani's they are Chinese so why do you interfere! just because their religion is the same as yours, just because their ideology is the same as yours? well the Chinese are atheists & there is 1% of atheists in Pakistan so they share this ideology yet you dont see the Chinese interfering with Pakistan's internal affairs calling for an end to anti blasphemy laws, can you openly denounce Islam in Pakistan & become atheist & promote atheism in Pakistan without any reprecusions from the society or the government? you dont see the Chinese here interfeing with Pakistan because these atheists in Pakistan are not Chinese and the Chinese also dont interfere because of the masive respect that they have for Pakistan & its members here on this forum.
Islam is not a race, its an ideology, just because you are a muslim and you think there is a strong brotherhood between muslims unlike any other ideology (for instance there is zero sence of brotherhood between atheists and very little sence of brotherhood between Christians) you feel you are entitled to interfere in China's INTERNAL affairs, well news flash you are entitled to absolutly NOTHING, and if you do interfere with China's INTERNAL affairs then that is just a text book example of some one being super ungratefull to their ally, most of the so called indegenous Pakistani military technology is 100% Chinese technology but they say its Pakistani first of all so that they avoid upseting India too much & secondly so that you can take pride in it.
if you think China didnt give Pakistan any help in Balakot then you are absolutly mistaken, I'm 100% sure China gave all the technical & advisory help they could to Pakistan which is why the Pakistan military was so effective in Balakot.

 

[Rasengan]

Never have i ever in china seen arabic symbols in china. Only non chinese symbols that exist in cities are mongolian and russian languages along with turkish (turkic) uyghurcha which uses arabic kinda old personalized urdu looking script.

.

Your first sentence isn't true. Most restaurants have a clear halal sign written in Arabic. In fact, when I was in Chengdu I met a group of Pakistani's in a Hui restaurant who were from Pindi. They couldn't understand Chinese and most people in the area can't speak English, thus the Arabic sign for halal was the only way they could tell this was a Muslim restaurant. The same applies to my experience in other cities. I wouldn't eat meat in a restaurant unless I saw a halal sign in Arabic.

Even quran is read in chinese in china. No one says Allah they say Zhen ju, (Real only God) they dont say Quran they say Qulanjin. They don't name mohamamd they write and pronounce Ma instead.

.

Again this is wrong. Muslim's in China read the Quran in Arabic, I would know since it was gifted to me by my friend as a present. Furthermore, only the commentary on the side is written in Chinese. This obviously makes sense, as a Muslim should understand the meaning behind the words. The Hui were influenced by the Arabs. In regards to the rest of your post, I agree.

Its their own culture and country who are you to judge? Chinese muslims iv seen are better than pakistani or turkish muslims in practice and understanding of the religion..

This sentence is a contradiction. On one hand, you claim who are people to judge. But you have fallen into that same trap. Who are you to judge Chinese Muslim's are better than Pakistan and Turkish Muslim's in practicing and understanding the religion. It's there culture and country but if such policies are true then shit will hit the fan and the Govt will reget it.

China never liked foreign influences.. Thats why Mohammad PBUH gave permission to his uncle who was ambassador of islam to china, permission was given to learn quran in chinese language and keep records of chinese language with atleast one master copy in arabic. Even their call for prayer was in chinese. Permission given by the Prophet PBUH himself to chinese people.

Really? The Tang dynasties relationship with the Muslim world was very strong. In fact, it was so strong, Emperor Xuanzong asked for help from the Abbasid Caliphate to dispose of An Lushan a rebel general. The situation only changed at the end of the Tang dynasty when Muslim's were massacred in Guangzhou by rebel forces. Even during the Song dynasty Arab influence in the region was relatively good since trade between the two civilizations was high. The Chinese were big importers of frankincense. China has 56 ethnic minorities, don't equate the historic viewpoint of the Han as the stance of modern China.

Provide proof that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that to his uncle? To my knowledge, it was Omar bin Abdul-Aziz the great-grandson of Umar ibn Khattab (RA) to have commissioned the first translation of the Quran from Arabic into another language. The call to prayer isn't in Chinese. I don't know what mosque you have gone to but they call the Azaan in Arabic.

Mohammad's (PBUH) uncle the embassador is even burried there in guanzhou city alomg with 2 other sahabaz. How many sahaba are burried in pakistan? India? Turkey?

You shouldn't make statement's when your knowledge is rather poor. There are 24 graves of the Sahaba in Istanbul. Furthermore, it will be Pakistan in the future that will play a pivotal in reviving the Muslims.

Stupid foreign muslims of 2020 now think they are better than muslims of china and elsewhere... Country and culture are independant of ur faith..
.

A true Muslim will never make such a statement. This might be accepted in China but as Muslim's, we don't believe in the idea of culture and country being independent of our faith. We aren't secular instead Allah's law remains supreme. Therefore, calling other Muslim's stupid when you failed to grasp the basics is rather ironic.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Oh, look, another endless whine on PDF about China's Chinese Muslim policies. We've got all the usual suspects warning about some vague consequences in some unspecified future. Face it, the only thing that'll happen in the future is that China becomes even more powerful than it is now.

Accept that China's internal policies are what they are and you can't do sh*t to change them. Just spare yourself the heartache and don't think about them. Finally, this is too delicious not to comment on:

Embracing, huh? Like Russia "embraced" Grozny with these?

It seems like you're making an argument for overwhelming violence. Luckily for us all, China is too civilized for that. And the USSR is not an example of anything; the USSR was weak, China is strong.

Russian widespread aggression did not work in Chechnya. Only when they employed kadyrov, switching to targeting separatism and terrorism only did the situation improve and Grozny was finally rebuilt.

Nobody is lecturing China on how to deal with separatism and terrorism. Clearly you are doing a good job controlling that and Uighur Muslims and their non-Muslim compatriots seem to be happy with the progress made.

This discussion is purely about whether or not Arabic script can be used in Chinese cities, the potential banning of which seems to be a new direction that wasn't really considered before.

Many have stated that Arabic culture per se has nothing to do with China and that is absolutely correct.

However a community who uses Arabic script and Arabic language proper to describe certain Islamic terms should be permitted to do so. Such a feature of Muslim communities is in keeping with similar communities the world over. I'm not sure what is so threatening about Arabic script when China, like all other governments, can easily monitor its usage and insist on mandarin translations being used in conjunction. Arabic is the revealed language of the Qur'an and as such has a unique position in Islamic communities.

Not really sure why it is offensive, threatening, or seditious.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

This discussion is purely about whether or not Arabic script can be used in Chinese cities, the potential banning of which seems to be a new direction that wasn't really considered before.

This raises a theological question I find pretty interesting: Why did Allah choose Arabic as a special language? What makes Arabic uniquely suitable as the script for the Word of God? Is the Word not translatable?

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Your first sentence isn't true. Most restaurants have a clear halal sign written in Arabic. In fact, when I was in Chengdu I met a group of Pakistani's in a Hui restaurant who were from Pindi. They couldn't understand Chinese and most people in the area can't speak English, thus the Arabic sign for halal was the only way they could tell this was a Muslim restaurant. The same applies to my experience in other cities. I wouldn't eat meat in a restaurant unless I saw a halal sign in Arabic.





Again this is wrong. Muslim's in China read the Quran in Arabic, I would know since it was gifted to me by my friend as a present. Furthermore, only the commentary on the side is written in Chinese. This obviously makes sense, as a Muslim should understand the meaning behind the words. The Hui were influenced by the Arabs. In regards to the rest of your post, I agree.




This sentence is a contradiction. On one hand, you claim who are people to judge. But you have fallen into that same trap. Who are you to judge Chinese Muslim's are better than Pakistan and Turkish Muslim's in practicing and understanding the religion. It's there culture and country but if such policies are true then shit will hit the fan and the Govt will reget it.




Really? The Tang dynasties relationship with the Muslim world was very strong. In fact, it was so strong, Emperor Xuanzong asked for help from the Abbasid Caliphate to dispose of An Lushan a rebel general. The situation only changed at the end of the Tang dynasty when Muslim's were massacred in Guangzhou by rebel forces. Even during the Song dynasty Arab influence in the region was relatively good since trade between the two civilizations was high. The Chinese were big importers of frankincense. China has 56 ethnic minorities, don't equate the historic viewpoint of the Han as the stance of modern China.

Provide proof that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that to his uncle? To my knowledge, it was Omar bin Abdul-Aziz the great-grandson of Umar ibn Khattab (RA) to have commissioned the first translation of the Quran from Arabic into another language. The call to prayer isn't in Chinese. I don't know what mosque you have gone to but they call the Azaan in Arabic.



You shouldn't make statement's when your knowledge is rather poor. There are 24 graves of the Sahaba in Istanbul. Furthermore, it will be Pakistan in the future that will play a pivotal in reviving the Muslims.




A true Muslim will never make such a statement. This might be accepted in China but as Muslim's, we don't believe in the idea of culture and country being independent of our faith. We aren't secular instead Allah's law remains supreme. Therefore, calling other Muslim's stupid when you failed to grasp the basics is rather ironic.

No in china no one knows the meaning of Halal written in English or arabic characters. Hala is called 清真 qing zhen.

I didn't reqd anything below ur first line as the first thing u said gave me an idea of how much u knlw about china or ifnu ever lived there...

Iv loved there gor 7 years i know and understand them. No better muslims than them these days.

No chinese citizen understands حلال. Every chinese citizen knows 清真

 

[Rasengan]

No in china no one knows the meaning of Halal written in English or arabic characters. Hala is called 清真 qing zhen.

I didn't reqd anything below ur first line as the first thing u said gave me an idea of how much u knlw about china or ifnu ever lived there...

Iv loved there gor 7 years i know and understand them. No better muslims than them these days.

No chinese citizen understands حلال. Every chinese citizen knows 清真

People with no brain have no cure. This Chinese proverb fits you perfectly. You didn't read my post because you were checkmated like a crippled duck. Buy some glasses so the next time you are in China you can see the word Halal written in Arabic on the shop. I know much more about China than you, so I don't need your certificate.

 

[letsrock]

I have already said every thing that I wanted to on this thread but there is one more thing directed to the Pakistani members here particularly those who are crying for Xinjiang:-

forget about the alleged oppresion of the Uyghurs... even if China feeds the Hui & the Uyghurs to the Lions and passes a law that openly denouces Islam & calls for capital punisment against any Chinese who adopts Islam, it is non of your business what China does with its own people, it is completely disrespectfull and quite shamefull for you to interfere with China's internal affairs, why you may ask? well isnt that obvious? the Uyghurs are not Pakistani's they are Chinese so why do you interfere! just because their religion is the same as yours, just because their ideology is the same as yours? well the Chinese are atheists & there is 1% of atheists in Pakistan so they share this ideology yet you dont see the Chinese interfering with Pakistan's internal affairs calling for an end to anti blasphemy laws, can you openly denounce Islam in Pakistan & become atheist & promote atheism in Pakistan without any reprecusions from the society or the government? you dont see the Chinese here interfeing with Pakistan because these atheists in Pakistan are not Chinese and the Chinese also dont interfere because of the masive respect that they have for Pakistan & its members here on this forum.
Islam is not a race, its an ideology, just because you are a muslim and you think there is a strong brotherhood between muslims unlike any other ideology (for instance there is zero sence of brotherhood between atheists and very little sence of brotherhood between Christians) you feel you are entitled to interfere in China's INTERNAL affairs, well news flash you are entitled to absolutly NOTHING, and if you do interfere with China's INTERNAL affairs then that is just a text book example of some one being super ungratefull to their ally, most of the so called indegenous Pakistani military technology is 100% Chinese technology but they say its Pakistani first of all so that they avoid upseting India too much & secondly so that you can take pride in it.
if you think China didnt give Pakistan any help in Balakot then you are absolutly mistaken, I'm 100% sure China gave all the technical & advisory help they could to Pakistan which is why the Pakistan military was so effective in Balakot.

This is a bit too much. Just because you made a nation and draw some political boundaries you cant say you can happily murder whoever you want within those borders.

To me the crux of the issue is whether Uyghurs or Hui have traditionally used arabic scripts to indicate they serve halal. In that case I think the Peoples Republic formed only in 1940s should respect that. But if arabic script is more like a trendy of way signalling they are different because they are muslim than it is for chinese govt to decide whether they are Ok with it or not.

 

[Rasengan]

Thats why for me I prefer to visit another Muslim countries as there are no problem regarding the foods.

You should come to Pakistan. I would love to visit Indonesia one day. In my opinion, the food looks amazing. I've had plenty of Malaysian food, can I assume its similar to Indonesian food?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

This raises a theological question I find pretty interesting: Why did Allah choose Arabic as a special language? What makes Arabic uniquely suitable as the script for the Word of God? Is the Word not translatable?

Sounds like a different thread...He could have chosen English or French or Mandarin for all I care, or a dead language like ancient Egyptian or some alien language altogether like Martian. But it is what it is and modern Arabic happens to be virtually the same as the language of the Qur'an as it was originally received. Yes it is translatable but as with any translation, varying degrees of meaning and context are lost in both translation and transliteration. Some Islamic scholar could explain it better than I.

I would like to think that if I visit a Han Chinese community anywhere in Europe, Asia or the rest of the world, even if completely happily assimilated into the local community in terms of livelihood and citizenship, that they would retain some benign markers of their heritage I.e. the language and script, the food, the festivals etc. That's just my way of thinking and nobody needs to agree, but I would be disappointed if such a ruling that might outlaw such benign features came into effect against ANY community anywhere in the world.

This is a bit too much. Just because you made a nation and draw some political boundaries you cant say you can happily murder whoever you want within those borders.

To me the crux of the issue is whether Uyghurs or Hui have traditionally used arabic scripts to indicate they serve halal. In that case I think the Peoples Republic formed only in 1940s should respect that. But if arabic script is more like a trendy of way signalling they are different because they are muslim than it is for chinese govt to decide whether they are Ok with it or not.

You make a great point here.

.... I mean the point about the precise context and history of the use of Arabic script.

 

[Indos]

You should come to Pakistan. I would love to visit Indonesia one day. In my opinion, the food looks amazing. I've had plenty of Malaysian food, can I assume its similar to Indonesian food?

Ya, you are right, Pakistan is in my list if I have opportunity to go there. Actually my cousin visited Kashmir few weeks ago and she is content with her journey. She visited Indian administered Kashmir, but as I have been in this forum for years and saw the beauty of Pakistan posted in several thread so I had suggested her to visit Pakistan instead of India next time she intend to go to South Asia again.

I think Indonesian food are much more vary than Malaysian food. I just remember Malaysian have nasi lemak, but in Indonesia you will have plenty of delicious food. I comes from Minang/Padang ethnic and its food are famous both in Indonesia and Malaysia. Rendang for instant is one of Minang food and CNN has regarded it as the most delicious food in the world. You can find Padang food quite easy across Indonesia and in Jakarta they are so many, even there are two Padang food restaurant near my house that I can reach by walking.

Jakarta Street Food

Padang/Minang food. The best location to visit in West Sumatra is Bukit Tinggi city. It is a well known tourist destination for people living in Indonesia and Malaysia. There are many Westerner tourist as well.