China protests over South Korea's plan for US missile defences

[Nan Yang]

Nope, you got your facts wrong buddy. The U.S NEVER HAD THE INTENTION OF INVADING CHINA AFTER ATTACKING NORTH KOREA. Why do you think the U.S will risk an unprovoked major war with China for no good reason?? Makes no sense.

Yes it does make sense. Perhaps US did not plan to invade China initially. But once they taste success in defeating N Koreans, it will embolden them to march on further and take Beijing.
Why not. After all, the communists have not consolidate their power yet over the whole of China. They were still fighting the Nationalists at that time.
Why would Mao take that risk.

It's true that General Mc Arthur(NOT THE U.S GOVERNMENT) contemplated bombing China but this was after CHINA(pushed, encouraged and armed by Soviet Russia) entered the KOREAN WAR beside N.Korea's already defeated army. It was only this that General Mc Arthur wanted to bomb China to stopped it from fighting/helping the Kim regime. The U.S NEVER IMAGINED CHINA WILL ENTER THE WAR, if anything the U.S thought it was more likely that the Soviet Russia will enter the war instead of China. Since N.Korea was a Soviet Russian protectorate/vassal state. We should not also forget that the Soviet Union was the main country behind the Korean War, since they were the ones arming their vassal state N.Korea and soviet pilots were also crucial in shooting down american,British and NATO fighter jets in Korea.
In other words, without the soviet Union there will be no N.Korean regime, in fact there would have never been a Korean war to begin with, since where would China and N.Korea have taken all their weapons/arms with which to fight. The soviets(as a rival superpower to the U.S) were the main country behind this war.So in Korea, the U.S and allies were directly/indirectly fighting the Soviet Union, it's for this reason that the war grounded to a standstill and the KIM dynasty regime was saved.

I may add that North and South Korea was created by BOTH United States and USSR. Each placed their dictator in charge. Koreans had no say.

Finally, you say only N.Korean citizens are to blame for leaving the brutal Kim dynasty rule over them, and you are comparing the Kim regime with the S.Korean government back then. lol Seems you don't understand the Kim regime at all and the ideological brainwash they have inflicted upon their people. Even if the N.Korean people were to ever break this commie ideological brainwash and take on the Kim regime, believe me the Kim regime wont hesitate to kill them all to save themselves and their government, since they know this will be a do or die affair. The ONLY way the Kim regime can be toppled is internally among party members themselves, not by a revolution/coup by the people.
Its kind of similar to Mao's China, but only difference is that the Kim regime is even far more worse in all aspect than the Mao regime back them. As in China after Mao's death, the only way N.Korea can change direction is through the communist party itself. Someone more open/moderate/realistic like Deng Xiaoping is needed to force change in the party and then the country as a whole. It won't be easy(Deng faced alot of hostility from radicals/die hard commies in the party as well), but with perseverance it is possible.

Chinese have an ancient proverb. The Ocean will float or sink a boat. North Koreans decided to float it. South Korean decided to sink it.
Enough North Koreans knows what is going on in their country. China is just next door, they can see. Traders, diplomats travel overseas. They can sent satellite to space yet do not know ? What's happening in N Korea is so wrong all the brainwashing will not hide it.
Over throwing unjust rulers are in Chinese blood since the over throw of the QIN Dynasty started by 77 peasants in the DA ZE uprising. Yes, rising up involve sacrifice. All the 77 were hunted down and killed. But it did inspire other to rise up.

You also miss-understand Mao. Why do the most poor and oppressed people all around the world look to Mao for inspiration ?
Because Mao did all he could for the poor and oppress. Today his spirit is still more alive than any of your leaders. Whatever he may have done, good or bad, he created an educated population which allows Deng to build on.

North Korea as i said before serves U.S interests and justifies America's massive military presence in Asia. So as it stands, the U.S is more than happy to let N.Korea carry on with it's provocations/aggression. It's China that should VERY VERY worried, not the U.S. Since the current situation couldn't be any better for the U.S. Why would the U.S wanna Kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?? lol
So N.Korea should carry on in it's current direction, if there is any country that Benefits more from this it's the U.S. Those that don't understand this simple fact, don't get what is happening in the region.

Well, it takes two to tango. China will not allow any war in its backyard. We will see.

 

[yantong1980]

Unfortunately South Korea leadership so 'caught' with American mindset, did South Korean didn't feel tired all this years with this deadlock? they still live in 'cold-war' era.

 

[Place Of Space]

Forget it. The American anti-missile system will push China-Russia more and more close.

 

[Jlaw]

Unfortunately South Korea leadership so 'caught' with American mindset, did South Korean didn't feel tired all this years with this deadlock? they still live in 'cold-war' era.

Christianity

 

[mike2000 is back]

@mike2000 is back I was talking about the Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Number of tanks, Airplanes, Ships doesn't dictate winners and losers, it's the will to continue fighting. Saddam thought Iran would be a pushover, and he'll be marching through the streets of Tehran.

Take out Saddam's use of WMDs and it could be said Iran would have had more to show for it to be considered victor.

@mike2000 is back I was talking about the Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Number of tanks, Airplanes, Ships doesn't dictate winners and losers, it's the will to continue fighting. Saddam thought Iran would be a pushover, and he'll be marching through the streets of Tehran.

Take out Saddam's use of WMDs and it could be said Iran would have had more to show for it to be considered victor.

Nope, as I said before Iraq had a slight edge over Iran in terms of military capability. THERE IS NO WAY IN HEAVEN IRAN COULD EVER DEFEAT IRAQ OR EMERGE VICTORIOUS. At best it would have been a tie like thee 8 year war they fought without any real victor. But jusst take a look at the casualties you wwill.be surpprrised to.find.our that Iran suffered over twice as many casualties during the war than Iraq, even so they still couldnt defeat Iraq .
In short, if the U.S/U.K/NATO could crush Saddam's Iraq military in less than 2months with a mere hundreds or so casualtiescasualties, then believe me there is no country in the region we couldn't crush in an even shorter period of time.

However, the iraq invasion was a huge mistake and blunder. Since it destroyed the balance of power that existed between Iraq and Iran, and thus restrained both countries from acting aggressively in their neighbourhood.If saddams Iraq was still present, then the middle East will ne far more stable and Iran wouldn't be so involved in the region(Syria,Iraq,Yemen etc) since Iraq was a major hindrance to their influence in the region.

Except North Korea isn't self sustaining in any meaningful sense, unless you view an Asia devolving back into an Agrarian community with periodic famines as progress. Frankly I'm unsure how you view North Korea as an example to follow in any way aside from its anti-Americanism. Its policy of Juche is self-evident as a failure, and contradictory to your stated goal of an integrated Asian community.

Pyongyang has already threatened Japan with war, and said it would be one of its first targets. The Cassus Belli? A Japanese declaration that any missiles heading for Japanese soil would be shot down.


North Korea states 'nuclear war is unavoidable' as it declares first target will be Japan | World | News | Daily Express

More evidence that Japan stands by America, and America stands by Japan.

http://www.newsweek.com/us-south-korea-japan-boost-data-sharing-response-north-korea-threat-425338

Military chiefs of S. Korea, U.S., Japan vow stern action against N. Korea

Japan, U.S., ROK must unite on North Korea - The Japan News

US, South Korea, Japan boost military ties in response to North Korea threat - Breaking News - Jerusalem Post

Japan OKs 946.5 billion yen in support for U.S. military bases - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun

Our alliance with Korea is also strong as the Thaad talks show, we are not withdrawing, and we are actively trying to bring Korea and Japan to a new state of relations.

I'm not optimistic given the emotionally compelling territorial dispute that exists, but I'd be thrilled if relations between the 2 warmed.

Nah it's ok. Our friend @Nihonjin1051 is a good lad, it's just that he usually too diplomatic and overly optimistic(wishful thinking) and tends to avoid seeing things the way they are. Every member here knows that be it thee Chinese,Indians, Iranians, Saudis, Pakistanis, etc.

I admire his optimism and wishful thinking though, but reality is always harsh/different.

Objectively speaking, however, North Korea plays a pivotal role in that she represents the realm of anti-American world view and represents, albeit in the radical sense, of independent Korean policy outside the confines of American sovereignty. In the patriotic East Asian sense of self sustenance and defense orientation, North Korea actually teaches Japan (and to similar degree, South Korea) of the importance of how nuclear deterrence can be influential in even staving the hands of American interventionism. And implicitly teaches nations such as Japan (+S. Korea) of the importance of acquiring nuclear deterrence or the effectivity of North Korean notion of Juche.

North Korea has a function in this overall region-specific development. And I believe that Tokyo must (and actually she already does in some degree through organizations such as the Chungryon -- a North Korean-Japanese organization) creatively develop relations with Pyongyang. Pyongyang will play a role in Japan's own intra-exogenous solidarity processes.

Thus i believe Japanese must rise above the American-heralded notion of North Korea as a threat. Pyongyang may pose a threat to Washington's interests in the region , not necessarily sovereignty of Tokyo and Seoul. Pyongyang may prove essentially useful in these aspects.

Are you joking??.............

When even China and Russia are against mad Kim's nuclear weapons tests and aggression, plus they have publicly condemn North Korea's nuclear tests several times since they know crazy Kim is a threat to the whole region. Yet you think crazy kim is a good model for Japan,S.Korea and other countries in the region?? Lol

Go and tell that to the poor hungry oppressed North Korean people., unlike us, they wont take that as a joke though.

 

[jkroo]

The six parties conversation should continue which is the important platform to resolve current issues. And the last conversation was held 8 years ago.

Mad world need civilization not violence.

The six parties conversation should continue which is the important platform to resolve current issues. And the last conversation was held 8 years ago if I remember correctly.

Mad world need civilization not violence.

 

[anon45]

Nah it's ok. Our friend @Nihonjin1051 is a good lad, it's just that he usually too diplomatic and overly optimistic(wishful thinking) and tends to avoid seeing things the way they are. Every member here knows that be it thee Chinese,Indians, Iranians, Saudis, Pakistanis, etc.

I admire his optimism and wishful thinking though, but reality is always harsh/different.

Well he is clearly intelligent and is capable and willing to engage in fruitful discussion, which is always a pleasure. He is very optimistic about cross Asian relations and somewhat pessimistic about American relations with the countries of Asia though. Countries in Asia including South Korea do desire a continued US presence to balance against China and continue to do so as evidenced through security agreements and data sharing. If they no longer desire our presence it is very possible for them to cancel our basing agreements, which we have shown ourselves to abide by. We don't see this happening, we instead see increased cooperation with the US.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Well he is clearly intelligent and is capable and willing to engage in fruitful discussion, which is always a pleasure. He is very optimistic about cross Asian relations and somewhat pessimistic about American relations with the countries of Asia though. Countries in Asia including South Korea do desire a continued US presence to balance against China and continue to do so as evidenced through security agreements and data sharing. If they no longer desire our presence it is very possible for them to cancel our basing agreements, which we have shown ourselves to abide by. We don't see this happening, we instead see increased cooperation with the US.

LMAO don't talk like US is THE ONE to save this earth from evils, dare SK to give middle finger to US and ask Americans to leave??? either sanction will be imposed or regime change that is the outcome for those to dare to defy American, they will suffer catastrophically. If I use your own word, same as Cuba crisis, Cuban people desired Soviet to counter balancing US and what was American's problem, why you need to set the blockade to Soviet Nukes in 1962?

And to add insult to injury, not only SK welcome US to their soil but shoulder the bill of all American expense...I guess this is call the protection fee, that's the pure basic concept of Mafia: I come to you house, fabricate a threat around your neighborhood and ask you to feed me while stay in your house and in return you shall be protected.

 

[Mehroz Khan]

Trust me, South Korea is a Gangsta!!! Unlike PAKISTANI GOVERNMENT who are good for fcuk all but just being puppets! Who is the US to tell other countries not to build missiles and all!

 

[Viva_Viet]

LMAO don't talk like US is THE ONE to save this earth from evils, dare SK to give middle finger to US and ask Americans to leave??? either sanction will be imposed or regime change that is the outcome for those to dare to defy American, they will suffer catastrophically. If I use your own word, same as Cuba crisis, Cuban people desired Soviet to counter balancing US and what was American's problem, why you need to set the blockade to Soviet Nukes in 1962?

And to add insult to injury, not only SK welcome US to their soil but shoulder the bill of all American expense...I guess this is call the protection fee, that's the pure basic concept of Mafia: I come to you house, fabricate a threat around your neighborhood and ask you to fee me while stay in your house and in return you shall be protected.

So, dare JP to give middle finger to US and ask Americans to leave???

If dare not, then why u believe that JP can join wt CN and create NEU against USA ? ::

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

So, dare JP to give middle finger to US and ask Americans to leave???

If dare not, then why u believe that JP can join wt CN and create NEU against USA ? ::

you should ask this question to my Japanese friend @Nihonjin1051 and not me....LMAO

 

[Viva_Viet]

you should ask this question to my Japanese friend @Nihonjin1051 and not me....LMAO

He admit that JP is under US's control.

You r just a typical Ah Q, making yourself happy wt " spiritual victory". TPP deal signed, try to keep your job, and dont beg for job from TPP nation

 

[anon45]

LMAO don't talk like US is THE ONE to save this earth from evils, dare SK to give middle finger to US and ask Americans to leave??? either sanction will be imposed or regime change that is the outcome for those to dare to defy American, they will suffer catastrophically. If I use your own word, same as Cuba crisis, Cuban people desired Soviet to counter balancing US and what was American's problem, why you need to set the blockade to Soviet Nukes in 1962?

And to add insult to injury, not only SK welcome US to their soil but shoulder the bill of all American expense...I guess this is call the protection fee, that's the pure basic concept of Mafia: I come to you house, fabricate a threat around your neighborhood and ask you to feed me while stay in your house and in return you shall be protected.

like the sanctions or regime change that happened in the Philippines? The US has been pretty benign in Asia relative to the really unsavory areas of US policy such as the Middle-East or (previously) South America.

The US would obviously try to come to a compromise or agreement to retain basing agreements, such as we have tried to do in Okinawa and what we attempted to do in the Philippines and Iraq, but if the Japanese or Korean governments said no and stuck by it we would have to abide by it. We literally do not have the resources to keep our troops in so many lands that did not desire our presence, as has been alluded to by other Chinese when they say the US is stretched thin. If Japan and Korea were indeed unwilling participants and were being threatened into doing so, we would indeed be stretched thin. But you have countries that dont have an American presence expressing interest on top of these countries that already have an American presence, so saying the US is fabricating the legitimate concerns these countries face is rather dismissive of these countries themselves, these are sovereign countries, and they actually would not have to have a US presence if they legitimately saw China or North Korea as not a security concern.

The US is clearly not fabricating the threat these country's see though, the US is not supporting North Korea or dictating China's national strategy.

The fact that they do shoulder some of the costs shows there is a desire to retain an American presence and they stick by their legitimate security concerns RE: North Korea and China (and to a small extent in Japan's case, Russia).

 

[Nike]

The regime of Kim is a pushover. Their military is nothing but the working museum though....

 

[Aepsilons]

I admire his optimism and wishful thinking though, but reality is always harsh/different.

No. You disregard my opinion as being "too optimistic" or "unrealistic" , just because it doesnt fit into the Western agenda, yes? Such a parvenu kind of thinking, Michael.

If it doesn't meet your agenda, then its "unrealistic". What is unrealistic is America's forward deployed forces in Japan and Korea. It is unsustainable and actually is anti-historical because it prevents national and historical processes from taking place.

What is readily apparent, however, is the fact that North Korea is now a nuclear power, and now has the ability to deliver extrahemispherically. Quite impressive for a poor nation , compared to what South Korea has attained. In fact South Korea (to a degree similar to Japan) has artificially inhibited their own military defense to appease American politicking and pressuring them from making real-time offensive weapons and technology. The truth of the matter is that Washington will inhibit any aggressive weapons technology development in Seoul because this is a threat to Washington's grip in Seoul. The same in regards to Japan.

Our Yankee doodle friends are not innocent babes breathing fresh picked lillies on green fields, lol. Please, come on. Their agenda is far more insidious and calculating, actually

Are you joking??.............

When even China and Russia are against mad Kim's nuclear weapons tests and aggression, plus they have publicly condemn North Korea's nuclear tests several times since they know crazy Kim is a threat to the whole region. Yet you think crazy kim is a good model for Japan,S.Korea and other countries in the region?? Lol

Go and tell that to the poor hungry oppressed North Korean people., unlike us, they wont take that as a joke though.

I actually am happy that North Korea has this ability, now. In fact it is a credit for all Korean people , including even the patriotic South Korean friends @sEoulman556 @Red Mahura because ultimately Korea will be unified. It isn't an issue of "if" , but just when. And when that does happen, Pyongyang's military technology advances will be integrated to a more independent and confident Seoul. In fact by natural inclination, Korea will be a nuclear armed and capable power. That justifies what? Threats? How callous. Beijing's repudiation of Pyongyang is only lip service, please don't be so naive to read and believe western media (which really does not understand the Korean world view). In fact a nuclear armed Pyongyang will permanently inhibit Washington's presence, and further erode the South Korean dependency on America and supposed "invincibility" of American military assets.

Ultimately, im sure our Korean patriots would like to rid their land of American soldiers. And would like to see a nuclear powered, armed, Korea.

Let the Americans warn all they want. It does nothing, it will change nothing. Just like how this 6 party system has failed miserably in thwarting Pyongyang's abilities.

LOL

The six parties conversation should continue which is the important platform to resolve current issues. And the last conversation was held 8 years ago.

I hate to sound unfortuitous , however, this 6 party system failed miserably. In fact it is a western created institutionalism heralded by the United States since 2003. What has come out of it? Absolutely nothing. It has failed pathetically and is actually considered a laughing stock joke in Japan.

Pyongyang is now a nuclear powered state. Period.

He is very optimistic about cross Asian relations and somewhat pessimistic about American relations with the countries of Asia though. Countries in Asia including South Korea do desire a continued US presence to balance against China and continue to do so as evidenced through security agreements and data sharing.

My observation and appraisal is comprehensive. Culturally speaking and on the social aspect, the United States brings credible points to the table , which should be considered in dialogue for East Asia. However in regards to geopolitical agendas, the United States is actually imbedded on the old Roman adage of "Divide et Impera" (Divine and Conquer). The United States' policy in East Asia is actually not for the better for Japan, South Korea, North Korea, China, Taiwan, but is actually to perpetuate American Hegemony in the Pacific.

I believe in balance and as a Japanese who had the priviledge of studying and living in the United States , China -- I can appreciate the importance of considering various points of the table with objectivistic agenda.

Don't get me wrong I have respect for US military personnel due to my exposure in interacting with them when I was in the JMSDF. However, I have my own views in regards to other , broader issues. One has to separate personal experiences from the broader , larger geopolitical issues we're talking about.





Regards.