China protests over South Korea's plan for US missile defences

[sicsheep]

North Korea has thousands of rockets and artillery within firing distance of Seoul and NK has chemcial/biological weapons.


NK isn't the U.S problem to fix it's China's

we had our chance to win Korea, but MacArthur was relieved of command.

NK isn't the U.S problem? even they got all these weapon aimed at your allies S.K and Japan?

 

[C130]

NK isn't the U.S problem? even they got all these weapon aimed at your allies S.K and Japan?

nope. this conflict has to be resolved not with missiles and artillery, but with diplomacy, and only China has the weight to fix North Korea.

 

[70U63]

It is easier just to point finger at China, and of course we understand that.
There is no way US want korea to reunite because it doesn't suit their geopolitical goal. SK knew this, but there is nothing much they can do.
So at this stage, we should congratulate NK for successfully launch their satellite into the space.

nope. this conflict has to be resolved not with missiles and artillery, but with diplomacy, and only China has the weight to fix North Korea.

 

[C130]

It is easier just to point finger at China, and of course we understand that.
There is no way US want korea to reunite because it doesn't suit their geopolitical goal. SK knew this, but there is nothing much they can do.
So at this stage, we should congratulate NK for successfully launch their satellite into the space.

this is 100% China fault

 

[Nan Yang]

Secondly, The U.S,U.K/NATO and allies intervened when N.Korea invaded in the south in 1950 remember? The N.Korean where not only defeated and kicked out of South Korea in a matter of months, but the U.S/NATO partners even crossed the border into North Korea itself and they had already completely decimated N.Korea military, only for China(encouraged and pushed by the SOVIET union) to intervene. Had China and most of all Russia(who was the main player/arms supplier behind this) not intervened then N. Korean regime/dynasty will be history today and we all have a united prosperous and advanced Korea today just like the South but bigger.
You should bare in mind that things have changed a lot today, the U.S as i said before couldn't have asked for anything better today than for an aggressive/paranoid N.Korea threatening its neighbors and reinforcing the idea that U.S massive military presence is needed in the region for peace and stability. Only a foolish/dumb U.S president will ever think of invading N.Korea, since N.Korea at present serves U.S interests in Asia more than any other country. The U.S(just like any smart/informed person) knows that.

Western propaganda at its best. Please do some research.
If United States had taken N Korea, THEY WILL NOT STOP THERE. MacArthur wanted to march on and attack Beijing from N Korea and hand mainland China back to the nationalists. He even wanted to use the atomic bomb. There would have been another 50 years of war.

After the Korean war, China left N Korea. If Korea is what it is today, what has that got to do with China? If them N Koreans can allow such a person like Kim Jong Un to rule over them then THEY DESERVED IT. They could have rise up and take him down. They DID NOT so they love him!!!

And after the Korean war, United States just wanted to forget the war. They lost to a bunch of laundrymen per the president remark. That is way the American call the Korean war "The wrong war in the wrong place in the wrong time" Or "The forgotten war". They didn't even build a memorial until recently.

And so the South Koreans overthrow their dictator and made their country prosperous. Then the South Korean deserve it. They deserve the credit.

But being Americans, they are bought up to take credit. So they now say S Koreans being a prosperous country is all because of United States.

Gosh!

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

N. Korea is China's problem to solve as they're the ones propping it up.

Iran is stronger than Saddam's Iraq. You had 60% + another 20% unwilling to fight the International Coalition in the initial stages and lesser in the interim governments. Iran is different, any attack will be a hard fought war.

 

[oprih]

Wait I thought america and it's european dogs are so powerful and can take down any country just like what they did in Iraq, how come they can't do the same in North Korea and instead came crying to China? Woah China truly has become so powerful these days that they are the one being asked to put an end to Kim.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Western propaganda at its best. Please do some research.
If United States had taken N Korea, THEY WILL NOT STOP THERE. MacArthur wanted to march on and attack Beijing from N Korea and hand mainland China back to the nationalists. He even wanted to use the atomic bomb. There would have been another 50 years of war.

After the Korean war, China left N Korea. If Korea is what it is today, what has that got to do with China? If them N Koreans can allow such a person like Kim Jong Un to rule over them then THEY DESERVED IT. They could have rise up and take him down. They DID NOT so they love him!!!

And after the Korean war, United States just wanted to forget the war. They lost to a bunch of laundrymen per the president remark. That is way the American call the Korean war "The wrong war in the wrong place in the wrong time" Or "The forgotten war". They didn't even build a memorial until recently.

And so the South Koreans overthrow their dictator and made their country prosperous. Then the South Korean deserve it. They deserve the credit.

But being Americans, they are bought up to take credit. So they now say S Koreans being a prosperous country is all because of United States.

Gosh!

Nope, you got your facts wrong buddy. The U.S NEVER HAD THE INTENTION OF INVADING CHINA AFTER ATTACKING NORTH KOREA. Why do you think the U.S will risk an unprovoked major war with China for no good reason?? Makes no sense.

It's true that General Mc Arthur(NOT THE U.S GOVERNMENT) contemplated bombing China but this was after CHINA(pushed, encouraged and armed by Soviet Russia) entered the KOREAN WAR beside N.Korea's already defeated army. It was only this that General Mc Arthur wanted to bomb China to stopped it from fighting/helping the Kim regime. The U.S NEVER IMAGINED CHINA WILL ENTER THE WAR, if anything the U.S thought it was more likely that the Soviet Russia will enter the war instead of China. Since N.Korea was a Soviet Russian protectorate/vassal state. We should not also forget that the Soviet Union was the main country behind the Korean War, since they were the ones arming their vassal state N.Korea and soviet pilots were also crucial in shooting down american,British and NATO fighter jets in Korea.
In other words, without the soviet Union there will be no N.Korean regime, in fact there would have never been a Korean war to begin with, since where would China and N.Korea have taken all their weapons/arms with which to fight. The soviets(as a rival superpower to the U.S) were the main country behind this war.So in Korea, the U.S and allies were directly/indirectly fighting the Soviet Union, it's for this reason that the war grounded to a standstill and the KIM dynasty regime was saved.

Finally, you say only N.Korean citizens are to blame for leaving the brutal Kim dynasty rule over them, and you are comparing the Kim regime with the S.Korean government back then. lol Seems you don't understand the Kim regime at all and the ideological brainwash they have inflicted upon their people. Even if the N.Korean people were to ever break this commie ideological brainwash and take on the Kim regime, believe me the Kim regime wont hesitate to kill them all to save themselves and their government, since they know this will be a do or die affair. The ONLY way the Kim regime can be toppled is internally among party members themselves, not by a revolution/coup by the people.
Its kind of similar to Mao's China, but only difference is that the Kim regime is even far more worse in all aspect than the Mao regime back them. As in China after Mao's death, the only way N.Korea can change direction is through the communist party itself. Someone more open/moderate/realistic like Deng Xiaoping is needed to force change in the party and then the country as a whole. It won't be easy(Deng faced alot of hostility from radicals/die hard commies in the party as well), but with perseverance it is possible.

Wait I thought america and it's european dogs are so powerful and can take down any country just like what they did in Iraq, how come they can't do the same in North Korea and instead came crying to China? Woah China truly has become so powerful these days that they are the one being asked to put an end to Kim.

North Korea as i said before serves U.S interests and justifies America's massive military presence in Asia. So as it stands, the U.S is more than happy to let N.Korea carry on with it's provocations/aggression. It's China that should VERY VERY worried, not the U.S. Since the current situation couldn't be any better for the U.S. Why would the U.S wanna Kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?? lol
So N.Korea should carry on in it's current direction, if there is any country that Benefits more from this it's the U.S. Those that don't understand this simple fact, don't get what is happening in the region.

 

[Ewok6102]

We should not also forget that the Soviet Union was the main country behind the Korean War, since they were the ones arming their vassal state N.Korea and soviet pilots were also crucial in shooting down american,British and NATO fighter jets in Korea.

USSR was the main reason Americans went to war. They don't want to see Soviet expansion. USSR, however, was not the only main country behind the Korean war. China provided the largest ground force needed to push the Americans, South Korean forces and its 'tag along friends' back to the south. USSR logistics and aerial support alone would not have done enough to force the American and South Korean retreat.

North Korea as i said before serves U.S interests and justifies America's massive military presence in Asia.

Absolutely. They justify U.S. presence in Asia and serves U.S interests. However this also works to China and Russia's advantage. American presence in Asia is still limited and dwarfed by that of China and Russia. Both nation's naval assets are situated there in Asia. On the other hand, America's are scattered all over the world. They are stretching themselves thin basically.

It's China that should VERY VERY worried

If it makes you happy, then I guess we can all pretend to be the ones that is "VERY VERY" worried.

When the stuff hits the fan, they will indirectly serve as an extended arm of China and Russia. They will be the one aiming nukes at American navy and assets. Not us. We don't have to lift a pinky.

if there is any country that Benefits more from this it's the US

IMO, it benefits China and Russia just as much. Yeah,for the short term, the US would appear to be the one benefiting most from it. But over the course of time, China, Russia and North Korea will continue to grow and eventually outgrow the American presence in Asia. They would have to sacrifice presence elsewhere and dedicate more resources into Asia in hope to keep the Chinese, Russians, N.Koreans and other rising regional powers in check.

All this is happening whilst we continue to extend presence and expand collaborations with nations and rising powers elsewhere in the world.

No one country can single handedly control the world. They can dream. They can try, but it won't be that way. They are simply repeating history and replicating what the Romans once did to ME and Europe.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

 

[mike2000 is back]

N. Korea is China's problem to solve as they're the ones propping it up.

Iran is stronger than Saddam's Iraq. You had 60% + another 20% unwilling to fight the International Coalition in the initial stages and lesser in the interim governments. Iran is different, any attack will be a hard fought war.

Not really. They were equal, with Iraq having an edge in military capabilities.In fact at the beginning of the war, Iraq held a clear advantage in armour, while both nations were roughly equal in terms of artillery. The gap only widened as the war went on. Iran started with a stronger air force though(U.S/western supplied fighter jets during Shah government), but over time, the balance of power reversed in Iraq's favour (as Iraq was constantly expanding its military, while Iran was relying on arms from N.Korea, Libya,China etc). Estimates for 1980 and 1987 were:

Imbalance of Power (1980–1987) Iraq Iran
Tanks in 1980 2700 1740
Tanks in 1987 4500+ 1000
Fighter aircraft in 1980 332 445
Fighter aircraft in 1987 500+ 65 (serviceable)
Helicopters in 1980 40 500
Helicopters in 1987 150 60
Artillery in 1980 1000 1000+
Artillery in 1987 4000+ 1000+


The Iraqi military machine -- numbering more than a million men with an extensive arsenal of CW, extended range Scud missiles, a large air force and one of the world's larger armies emerged as the premier armed force in the Persian Gulf region. In the Middle East, only the Israel Defense Force had superior capability.

Too bad we destroyed Iraq and the balance of power that existed in the region. In this regard i agree with those people who say we made a huge blunder invading Iraq and dismantling/destroying Saddam's regime/military. It was the most stupid thing to do ever. Well, we should all learn from past mistakes.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

@mike2000 is back I was talking about the Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Number of tanks, Airplanes, Ships doesn't dictate winners and losers, it's the will to continue fighting. Saddam thought Iran would be a pushover, and he'll be marching through the streets of Tehran.

Take out Saddam's use of WMDs and it could be said Iran would have had more to show for it to be considered victor.

@mike2000 is back I was talking about the Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Number of tanks, Airplanes, Ships doesn't dictate winners and losers, it's the will to continue fighting. Saddam thought Iran would be a pushover, and he'll be marching through the streets of Tehran.

Take out Saddam's use of WMDs and it could be said Iran would have had more to show for it to be considered victor.

 

[Aepsilons]

Objectively speaking, however, North Korea plays a pivotal role in that she represents the realm of anti-American world view and represents, albeit in the radical sense, of independent Korean policy outside the confines of American sovereignty. In the patriotic East Asian sense of self sustenance and defense orientation, North Korea actually teaches Japan (and to similar degree, South Korea) of the importance of how nuclear deterrence can be influential in even staving the hands of American interventionism. And implicitly teaches nations such as Japan (+S. Korea) of the importance of acquiring nuclear deterrence or the effectivity of North Korean notion of Juche.

North Korea has a function in this overall region-specific development. And I believe that Tokyo must (and actually she already does in some degree through organizations such as the Chungryon -- a North Korean-Japanese organization) creatively develop relations with Pyongyang. Pyongyang will play a role in Japan's own intra-exogenous solidarity processes.

Thus i believe Japanese must rise above the American-heralded notion of North Korea as a threat. Pyongyang may pose a threat to Washington's interests in the region , not necessarily sovereignty of Tokyo and Seoul. Pyongyang may prove essentially useful in these aspects.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Western propaganda at its best. Please do some research.
If United States had taken N Korea, THEY WILL NOT STOP THERE. MacArthur wanted to march on and attack Beijing from N Korea and hand mainland China back to the nationalists.

What MacArthur wanted doesn't matter since he wasn't the one in a position to make that decision. There is no shortage of time during warfare when a top general says they want to do something only to be overuled

 

[anon45]

Objectively speaking, however, North Korea plays a pivotal role in that she represents the realm of anti-American world view and represents, albeit in the radical sense, of independent Korean policy outside the confines of American sovereignty. In the patriotic East Asian sense of self sustenance and defense orientation, North Korea actually teaches Japan (and to similar degree, South Korea) of the importance of how nuclear deterrence can be influential in even staving the hands of American interventionism. And implicitly teaches nations such as Japan (+S. Korea) of the importance of acquiring nuclear deterrence or the effectivity of North Korean notion of Juche.

North Korea has a function in this overall region-specific development. And I believe that Tokyo must (and actually she already does in some degree through organizations such as the Chungryon -- a North Korean-Japanese organization) creatively develop relations with Pyongyang. Pyongyang will play a role in Japan's own intra-exogenous solidarity processes.

Thus i believe Japanese must rise above the American-heralded notion of North Korea as a threat. Pyongyang may pose a threat to Washington's interests in the region , not necessarily sovereignty of Tokyo and Seoul. Pyongyang may prove essentially useful in these aspects.

Except North Korea isn't self sustaining in any meaningful sense, unless you view an Asia devolving back into an Agrarian community with periodic famines as progress. Frankly I'm unsure how you view North Korea as an example to follow in any way aside from its anti-Americanism. Its policy of Juche is self-evident as a failure, and contradictory to your stated goal of an integrated Asian community.

Pyongyang has already threatened Japan with war, and said it would be one of its first targets. The Cassus Belli? A Japanese declaration that any missiles heading for Japanese soil would be shot down.


North Korea states 'nuclear war is unavoidable' as it declares first target will be Japan | World | News | Daily Express

More evidence that Japan stands by America, and America stands by Japan.

http://www.newsweek.com/us-south-korea-japan-boost-data-sharing-response-north-korea-threat-425338

Military chiefs of S. Korea, U.S., Japan vow stern action against N. Korea

Japan, U.S., ROK must unite on North Korea - The Japan News

US, South Korea, Japan boost military ties in response to North Korea threat - Breaking News - Jerusalem Post

Japan OKs 946.5 billion yen in support for U.S. military bases - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun

Our alliance with Korea is also strong as the Thaad talks show, we are not withdrawing, and we are actively trying to bring Korea and Japan to a new state of relations.

I'm not optimistic given the emotionally compelling territorial dispute that exists, but I'd be thrilled if relations between the 2 warmed.

 

[gambit]

Wait I thought america and it's european dogs are so powerful and can take down any country just like what they did in Iraq, how come they can't do the same in North Korea and instead came crying to China? Woah China truly has become so powerful these days that they are the one being asked to put an end to Kim.

It is a test for China. Looks like China is losing. Too scared of pissing off Kim ?