China, Pakistan, India, BDesh, and Turkey: How fat are their wallets?

[FaujHistorian]

This is truly a HUGE crisis time, because we have almost run out of cash to pay for our international obligations.

And yet we are either asleep or doing dharnas. No forking politician or intellectual is telling us the dire situation.


Here is a quick Summary

Please note that Most of the rich countries listed here were at our level or pooerer than us in 60s


Pakistan's dollar/Euro/gold reserves ---------- roughly $14 billion
India----------------------------------------------------------$250-300 billion
S, Korea------------------------------------------------------$500-600 billion
Turkey--------------------------------------------------------$100-125 billion
..

..
Drum roll please

China--------------------------------------------------------$3,600 billions and climbing

How did Turkey,India, S Korea, or China accumulate so much wealth?

By doing Dharnas, or electing parties whose leaders are caught with 400,000 british pounds cash?

Nah

They have all worked and provided any and all services to the West. And the West paid them with dollars and Euros and even gold.





So where are we when it comes to the size of our wallet?


Yemen $6.158 billion (31 December 2012 est.)
Bdesh $12.75 billion (31 December 2012 est.)
Afghanistan $5.983 billion (31 December 2012 est.)
Sri Lanka $7.105 billion (31 December 2012 est.)
Egypt $14.93 billion (31 December 2012 est.)


Yes we are among the beggers or shall I say a poorer member even among the beggars.

Yes we have quit working for the global customers. We do dharnas, and we fork each other and everyone and make lots and lots of babies.

We pray 5 times, persecute our minorities on charges of blasphemy

And

look our actions have brought our country among the beggars of the world.



Anyone wants to see Pakistani face in the mirror

or

it is time to get another drag of religious bhung (weed) and get high?


Anyone?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Chinese Quom (nation) is working day and night and soon their wallet will be even fatter with 4,000 billions.


While Pakistani quom and especially our marxist leftist intellectuals want to sing
alhamdulillah and inshallah hazrat umar mashaallah
while keeping their eyes closed and their ears shut.

like that old bollywood song

-- Dum maro Dum
-- Mit Jai Ghum
-- Bolo Subha Shaam
-- Haray Krishna Haray raam.

Just replace the last line

with

-- Haray Mullah Haray Ayatullam

 

[Android]

By doing Dharnas, or electing parties whose leaders are caught with 400,000 british pounds cash?

Similar $#!+ happens in India but after liberalization which took place in early 90s situation has improved substantially and continues to improve fast

 

[FaujHistorian]

There two Indian characteristics we Pakistanis could have followed

1. Mega industrialists
2. Humble and hardworking pro-West Indian masses in all the urban centers.


**A***
======
Liberalization removed the shackles from decades of energy pent up in Tatas, Azim jis, etc. and kick started the economic engine.


**B***
======
This economic engine then provided opportunities to the "Humble and hardworking pro-West Indian masses in all the urban centers. "


Combination of A and B is now showing up as $250 billion dollar cash and gold stored in Indian gov's wallet


Hope this helps.


Pakistan liberalized on two occasions.

Gen. Ayub;s 60s

And

Nawaz Sharif's 90s


60s liberalization bore huge amount of economic fruits
but unfortunately it was destroyed by commies and socialists in 70s


90s liberalization put India and Pakistan neck and neck in some ways (but no way in the same league)
But we did the $tupid monkey see monkey do nuclear explosions copycatting Indians. Thus the flight of dollars and thus the utter destruction of liberalization and economy.


peace

 

[joekrish]

Most of the S. Asian politicians and people lack accountability including me. The very famous Chalta hai attitude I guess.

 

[RescueRanger]

Pakistan's dollar/Euro/gold reserves ---------- roughly $14 billion

Time to stock up tinned food old chap.

 

[T-123456]

Its time to see reality and wake up.

 

[banvanaxl]

The very famous Chalta hai attitude I guess.

The "chalta hai" attitude was shown the door with the demise of the license raaj by the early 1990s. This is the time of the RTI and the Jan Lokpal. We've fought hard against insurmountable odds (read as the babudoms of south delhi corridors of powers and elsewhere) to be where we are.

Long way to go, but i guess we can take a breather and a lil pat on our backs.

 

[FaujHistorian]

The "chalta hai" attitude was shown the door with the demise of the license raaj by the early 1990s. This is the time of the RTI and the Jan Lokpal. We've fought hard against insurmountable odds (read as the babudoms of south delhi corridors of powers and elsewhere) to be where we are.

Long way to go, but i guess we can take a breather and a lil pat on our backs.

Even though we all tend to gravitate towards political tamasha in Dilli


but this is just a side show.

For progress and prosperity, India has been gifted with the following

1. Mega industrialists
2. Humble and hardworking pro-West Indian masses in all the urban centers.



And

This is the same formula being used with 100 times more success in China

and S Korea.


Thank you.

 

[banvanaxl]

Even though we all tend to gravitate towards political tamasha in Dilli
but this is just a side show.
For progress and prosperity, India has been gifted with the following
1. Mega industrialists
2. Humble and hardworking pro-West Indian masses in all the urban centers.

I'll refer back to your post from the thread How Pakistan can become an economic force in the region? | Page 8.

The Tatas, Birlas and Ambanis (or the Warren Buffets and the Rockefellers for that matter) did not come blessed with exceptional genes. They were just regular people born in liberated, multi-cultural, multi-ethnic societies that encouraged freedom of speech and expression and rewarded innovation and individuality.

In the days of the Raaj you had business icons and stalwarts of the likes of Sir Abdullah Haroon of Karachi and the Adamjees of Lahore. Had history taken a different path for Pakistan, Karachi and not Bombay would have been the financial capital of S.E Asia (it was, afterall a major hub of commerce and primary port for trade for whole of the undivided NW India under the Raaj).

Would do good for my Pakistani friends here to take a while and ponder on the decisions which prompted the state of affairs they find themselves in. Everyone knows what they are, and how they can be rectified, its just a matter of getting past the denial, the complacency and acting pro-actively now instead of dillly-dallying and going the Indian "chalta hai" way. Its not going to be easy, definitely was not easy for us but no theres bloody reason not to.

Peace out

 

[Donatello]

There two Indian characteristics we Pakistanis could have followed

1. Mega industrialists
2. Humble and hardworking pro-West Indian masses in all the urban centers.


**A***
======
Liberalization removed the shackles from decades of energy pent up in Tatas, Azim jis, etc. and kick started the economic engine.


**B***
======
This economic engine then provided opportunities to the "Humble and hardworking pro-West Indian masses in all the urban centers. "


Combination of A and B is now showing up as $250 billion dollar cash and gold stored in Indian gov's wallet


Hope this helps.


Pakistan liberalized on two occasions.

Gen. Ayub;s 60s

And

Nawaz Sharif's 90s


60s liberalization bore huge amount of economic fruits
but unfortunately it was destroyed by commies and socialists in 70s


90s liberalization put India and Pakistan neck and neck in some ways (but no way in the same league)
But we did the $tupid monkey see monkey do nuclear explosions copycatting Indians. Thus the flight of dollars and thus the utter destruction of liberalization and economy.


peace

You missed out Musharraf's time. As much as i would disagree with his policies, he doubled the nominal GDP of Pakistan from 90 billion (est 1999) to 180 billion USD (est 2007) and liberalized the economy. That's when we saw all this Internet/IT/Telecom/Media boom. Pakistan was much richer in 2003-2007 era than now. We were buying billions of dollars of weapons from here and there.

 

[FaujHistorian]

....

In the days of the Raaj you had business icons and stalwarts of the likes of Sir Abdullah Haroon of Karachi and the Adamjees of Lahore. Had history taken a different path for Pakistan, Karachi and not Bombay would the financial capital of S.E Asia

Excellent point.


There were some old families you mentioned. Please do not forget trader/thinker/visionary family of Cowasjis.


Then there were new ones like the latif family of BECO fame
Sehgals
and

off course Sharifs (dad of the current PM, and CM-Punjab).


They all pushed Pakistani economy way beyond one could have ever imagined in the challenging days of 1947.


However 70s changed all that when marxist, socialists looted all those factories, banks, and even colleges and schools.
While the commie Bhutto destroyed the economic engine,

he also started consuming Wahabi poison from the likes of Shah faisal.

Islamo fascism started as an outcrop of Islamo-socialism.


It was like turning Pakistan's industrial heartland into a rust belt within a short span of 2 years.

All these business families were crushed under the full weight of state.

Once economy and economic engine was gone.

Pakistanis dug themselves even deeper by continuing with Islamo-socialism all the way until mid 90s.


peace

 

[banvanaxl]

However 70s changed all that when marxist, socialists looted all those factories, banks, and even colleges and schools.
While the commie Bhutto destroyed the economic engine,
he also started consuming Wahabi poison from the likes of Shah faisal.
Islamo fascism started as an outcrop of Islamo-socialism.
It was like turning Pakistan's industrial heartland into a rust belt within a short span of 2 years.
All these business families were crushed under the full weight of state.
Once economy and economic engine was gone.
Pakistanis dug themselves even deeper by continuing with Islamo-socialism all the way until mid 90s

From our perspective, (and this can be a wee bit controversial, so I apologize for any ill-feeling caused, in advance), I have always wondered why your people took the decisions as you've mentioned above in the first place. When I was young, I naively believed that it was because of Islam and the intolerance preached therein that was the root cause of all issues. And then I compared Pakistan with Turkey both of which were countries formed at a similar time with similar social structures and problems and the grossly different paths they took.

What happened to the liberals, the thinkers, the intellectuals and the educated masses amidst all the chaos ? Why did they choose to exile themselves to the western countries when they were needed the most ? Why did politics remain in the realms of the moneyed elite ? Why wasn't student politics given a more important stage ?

We in India had a similar tryst with marxism and extremism, albeit in a different way. The naxalite movement claimed countless young souls and brainwashed them but our people (well most of them anyway) never let us down. The maoists where crushed and alienated.
The Hindutva brigade had their moment in the spot light for a few years till better sense prevailed and were resoundingly defeated in the polls, so much so that hard core activists and big names of a certain political party back flipped on their religious agendas and had to portray themselves as secular entities to ensure political survival. Most of them did not survive ..

The Aam Janta of our country always had a voice. It was subdued on occasions but they always came good when needed. What happened to the regular folk in Pakistan, the voice of reason ?

Peace out ...

 

[Sliver]

- The fact that many people from Pakistan are recognizing the problems is the first step.
- The second is to find out what went wrong. This is mostly where Pakistan hasnt been able to do well with almost all the time putting the responsibility on poweres outside of the state and hence the state gave up rectifying the issues.
- May be PDF can start a small brainstorm session just to discuss micro issues and try and fix responsibility. It will be a bright discussion if you allow only those known to be "value additions" to the brain storm instead of every member.
- You can do a bit of research and come up with your papers on what was responsible for the debacle and what needs to be done.

 

[FaujHistorian]

What happened to the liberals, the thinkers, the intellectuals and the educated masses amidst all the chaos ? Why did they choose to exile themselves to the western countries when they were needed the most ? Why did politics remain in the realms of the moneyed elite ? Why wasn't student politics given a more important stage ?.

Pakistanis liberals didn't go anywhere. They are right here amongst us.

Before I explain their role.

I have a question for you.


What's common between Pakistani Liberals and Pakistani Islamists?