China may give india a taste of it's own medicine

[Developereo]

i know its tough to digest this but the only end result of chinese dam will be more dams in Kashmir....

It's not hard to digest at all.

China kicks your *** so, just because you can't stand up to China, you run away and go and take someone else's water.

What a pathetic, loser attitude...

 

[Goodperson]

i know its tough to digest this but the only end result of chinese dam will be more dams in Kashmir....

India does not indend to block water of rivers The rivers flowing through Kashmir are governed by IWT, Pakistan can take India to WB or ICJ for disputes which it has taken and lost last time about Baghliar project..

 

[pkd]

India Quakes Over China Water Plan | International RiversIndia Quakes Over China Water Plan

November 9, 2008
Sudha Ramachandran, Asia Times Online

Originally published in Asia Times Online

BANGALORE - Even as India and China are yet to resolve their decades-old territorial dispute, another conflict is looming. China's diversion of the waters of a river originating in Tibet to its water-scarce areas could leave India's northeast parched. This is expected to trigger new tensions in the already difficult relations between the two Asian giants.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is reported during his recent Beijing visit to have raised the issue of international rivers flowing out of Tibet. Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao has said that water scarcity threatened the very "survival of the Chinese nation".

The river in question is the Brahmaputra, which begins in southwestern Tibet where it is known as the Yalong Tsangpo River. It flows eastwards through southern Tibet for a distance of about 1,600 kilometers and at its easternmost point makes a spectacular U-turn, known as the Shuomatan Point, or the "Great Bend". This is just before the river enters India, where it is joined by two other major rivers; from this point of confluence it is known as the Brahmaputra. It then snakes into Bangladesh, where it is joined by the Ganges River to create the world's largest delta before emptying into the Bay of Bengal.

It is at the Great Bend that China plans to divert water, in addition to its hydroelectric power project that is expected to generate 40,000 megawatts of power. The diversion of the waters is part of a larger hydro-engineering project, the South-North water diversion scheme, which involves three man-made rivers carrying water from the icy Tibetan plateau to the arid north.

This water diversion scheme will draw from the waters of the Yalong,Dadu and Jinsha rivers, which rise in the Tibetan plateau, and channel them to the Yellow River. The aim of the project is to provide water for human use, including farming and industry in China's water-scarce areas in the north and northwest. This water diversion project involves three diversion routes - the eastern, central and western routes. The diversion of the Yalong Tsangpo at the Great Bend is the western route of the project - the most technologically challenging and controversial of the three routes.

For Beijing, the argument in favor of the water diversion project is simple. More than a quarter of China is classified as desert. Its north and northwest areas are water scarce. Increasing consumption of water, rapid industrialization and pollution have rendered the waters of many of China's rivers unusable. Besides, sections of the Yellow River run dry. In contrast, rivers that rise in the Tibetan plateau's glaciers have much water. Once completed, the water diversion scheme is expected to transfer over 40 billion cubic meters of water annually to China's water scarce areas, relieving China's thirst to a significant extent.

It is true the Tibetan plateau is a source of much water. It is Asia's principal watershed and the source of 10 of its major rivers, including the Yalong Tsangpo/Brahmaputra, the Sutlej and the Indus. China, India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Pakistan, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam, indeed 47% of the world's population, are dependent on water rising in the Tibetan plateau.

But while rivers with sources in the icy Tibetan plateau are rich in water, critics of the water diversion project say they are not inexhaustible, as Chinese officials claim. The Tibetan plateau is ice-covered but it is an arid desert with very little rainfall. The source of much of its water bodies and rivers is glaciers, which are melting due to global warming. If, alongside the impact of rising temperatures on glaciers, China diverts water from its natural course, Tibet will be a water-scarce region in a few decades. Critics also point to the nvironmental and ecological destruction it is likely to cause.

The water diversion project at the Great Bend spells disaster not only for the Tibetan plateau but also for the lower riparian countries - India and Bangladesh. These countries view the project with some concern as it represents a direct threat to the lives and livelihoods of millions of people living downstream.

With the Yalong Tsangpo's waters being diverted, the amount of water in the Brahmaputra will fall significantly, affecting India's northeast and Bangladesh. It will severely impact agriculture and fishing there as the salinity of water will increase, as will silting in the downstream area.

A shortage of water in the Ganges has already affected the lives and livelihoods of millions in Bangladesh, pushing them to migrate to India, especially to its northeast. This migration of Bangladeshis has changed the demographic composition of vast tracts in the northeast especially in Assam) and triggered serious ethnic conflicts there. A shortage of water in the Brahmaputra will accentuate these problems to dangerous levels.

There is concern too that with the water diversion project taking off, China will acquire great power and leverage over India, worsening tensions between these two countries.

Analysts have drawn attention to incidents in the past to show how vulnerable downstream areas are to what takes place upstream in Tibet. In June 2000, for instance, the breach of a dam in Tibet led to floods and left over 100 people dead or missing in Arunachal Pradesh. In August that year, swollen lakes in Tibet caused severe flooding of the River Sutlej in the northern Indian state of Himachal Pradesh, sweeping away around 100 bridges and killing scores of people. If floods upstream have a serious impact on downstream areas, the diversion of waters will have "even more devastating consequences", an India-China watcher in India, Claude Arpi, warned.

Underscoring the implications of the project, Arpi said that issues of concern "not only pertain to the environment but also to national and international security. If Beijing goes ahead with the Tsangpo project it would practically mean a declaration of war against South Asia."

India is watching the water diversion project with concern. It does not have a water sharing treaty with China, so it is at Beijing's mercy with regard to the Brahmaputra's waters. China's reluctance to pay heed to concerns of lower riparian countries is evident from the fact that it is unwilling to share even hydrological data on flood waters with India; this despite the fact that it is obliged under an agreement with India to do so, with regard to flood waters of the Sutlej. The two countries had also agreed to set up a joint expert-level mechanism on interstate river waters, but it has not showed any enthusiasm about moving forward on that either.

It seems that India can only watch helplessly as China steams ahead with its water diversion ambitions.

 

[sathruvinasakh]

It's not hard to digest at all.

China kicks your *** so, just because you can't stand up to China, you run away and go and take someone else's water.

What a pathetic, loser attitude...

you are wrong.Just taking on a person strong than you wont make you wise.Politics are not only meant for political leaders.Same politics can be used to take down a horde of lions using few rabbits.

What I can suggest you in this regard is,we I mean India will get the work done with no dust on its hands.

Strenght always dont work.A small amount of brain needs to be sharped in cases acumulating to the victory .

It is only after the early 2000`s the foreign policy of India saw the appication of Chanakyas "Arthasatra"

And in the coming decades the same principles will be used to a large extent to bring the legacy of "Bharatavarsha" alive.

Peace.

P.S: As a wise man think of urself and analyse the situation of the Indo-Chinese water row.So far India has no major dams on the river.Hence BD is using the waters at the max to fullfil its needs.If the so called chinese dam the waters and let BD starve,It will the same jehadi mentality of the few in BD that are currently taking on India will see the new whole where the light is coming from i.e China and will be after China.
As a result,the prophecy will come true that there will be a Democratic government ruling China by 2020.
The democratic gov will be due to the implications of the masses revolutions in both Tibet and Xingxiang fueled by both state and non-state actors with the BD jihadists and Talibans.Either a loose of tibet/Xinxiang will lead to the demose of CCP.
No CCP=Democratic china.

It was written all over the natal and astrologic charts analysed by the famous astrologists world wide.No one can change the fate.can you?

A soon to be put off fire burns so high and brright.same goes with China.History repeats always.

And the Indian help in bringing democracy in china will be? Being a silent spectator and having fun watching the decade long movie.

I personally advice china to build as many dams .

 

[praveen]

1)The Monsoons bring the highest amount of rainfall to the NE and its the largest catchment area .Anybody remember Cherrapunji.So dam or no dam India will be getting the required water

Please don't be disappointed

2)The Chinese won't go for another dam because of this

Why could China's Three Gorges Dam cause an environmental disaster?

by Stephanie Watson

Why could China's Three Gorges Dam cause an environmental disaster?

Is it a feat of mo*dern engineering, or an environmental disaster in the making? China's Three Gorges Dam project has the potential to be both, depending on whether you talk to government officials or environmentalists. According to the Chinese government, Three Gorges is the solution to two of the country's biggest problems -- flood control and energy production. Yet many scientists say the dam could have devastating implications, including water pollution, earthquakes, landslides and the destruction of natural species and historical sites.

Three Gorges is an engineering marvel. When fully constructed and operational in 2009, it will surpass Brazil's Itaipu Dam to become the largest and most powerful hydropower project in the world.

Once completed, this $24 billion concrete dam will extend 1.5 miles (2.4 kilometers) across the river, and reach heights of more than 600 feet (183 meters) [source: Hvistendahl]. It will create a reservoir nearly 400 miles (644 kilometers) long (about the distance from Los Angeles to San Francisco) along the Yangtze, the third-largest river in the world. It will have the capacity to store 5 trillion gallons (18 trillion liters) of water [source: PBS].

The dam will house 26 turbine generator units, which will produce 18,000 megawatts of energy -- eight times the energy produced by the Hoover Dam, and enough to power 18.2 million homes and provide one-ninth of China's total power [sources: Hvistendahl, International Rivers, PBS].

Construction on the dam began in 1994 and was finished in October 2006. Three Gorges is set to be fully operational in 2009 -- four years ahead of schedule.

The original intent of Three Gorges Dam was for flood control. Over the past 2,000 years, there have been more than 200 catastrophic floods along the Yangtze's banks [source: PBS]. The dam is also needed to provide an important source of energy for a rapidly growing and modernizing society. China is the second-largest energy consumer in the world, just behind the United States. Right now 70 percent of its energy comes from coal [source: Energy Information Administration]. Over the next decade China aims to expand its use of alternative energy sources such as solar, nuclear and wind power. Hydropower will play a big part in that push for cleaner energy.

Three Gorges will also bring shipping into China's interior.

Finally, Three Gorges will serve as a symbol of China's engineering might -- a massive construction project on a scale never before seen. The Chinese are hoping that Three Gorges will become a major tourist attraction.

Environmental Risks of the Three Gorges Dam
A man in a half-flooded house.
Goh Chai Hin/AFP/*Getty Images
This man still lives in a half-demolished building nearly submerged by the Yangtze's rising waters.

*Environmental experts cite not one, but several potential catastrophes that could occur in the wake of the dam's construction.

Pollution. As it fills, the enormous reservoir will submerge 13 cities, 140 towns and 1,350 villages [source: International Rivers]. Homes, factories, mines and waste dumps will all end up underwater, along with their contents, which likely include toxic chemicals. Add to that the estimated 1.35 billion tons (1.25 billion metric tons) of sewage already being dumped in the river each year, which will have nowhere to go but into the reservoir -- a major source of drinking water for the region [source: China Three Gorges Project]. Putting a dam on the Yangtze will slow its flow from 13 feet (4 meters) per second to 1 foot (0.3 meters) per second, which means pollutants will float lazily in the river instead of being flushed quickly out to sea [source: Kuhn]. In a country where more than half of the major waterways are polluted to the point of being unsafe for drinking, polluted water is a big concern.

Earthquakes. Three Gorges Dam sits on two major fault lines -- Jiuwanxi and Zigui-Badong. Geologists fear that rapid changes in water pressure when the reservoir levels are changed during flood season could activate already shaky ground and trigger an earthquake (a phenomenon known as reservoir-induced seismicity). In the seven months following the 2006 increase in water level, geologists recorded 822 tremors around the reservoir [source: Hvistendahl].

Landslides and mudslides. The raising and lowering of the water level in the reservoir also destabilizes the land around it. Water seeps into the soil in the cliffs surrounding the reservoir, causing enough erosion to make the ground slip. The shore of Three Gorges reservoir has already collapsed in more than 90 places [source: Macartney]. Villagers in the area have reported mudslides and cracks appearing in their backyards. In 2003, 700 million cubic feet (20 million cubic meters) of rock slid into the Qinggan River just a couple of miles from where it flows into the Yangtze. The rockslide spawned 65-foot (20-meter) waves that killed 14 people [source: Hvistendahl].

Changes in the weather. The alteration in water flow from the dam is so significant that scientists are saying it's actually changing the weather in the area. Researchers at NASA discovered that Three Gorges was creating a sort of lake effect, decreasing rainfall in the area around it, while increasing rainfall in the surrounding mountains. In areas where rainfall increased, temperatures dropped by an average of 1.2 degrees Fahrenheit (less than 1 degree Celsius) because cloud cover limited the amount of sunlight reaching the ground. NASA scientists say these temperature fluctuations could become even more dramatic when the dam becomes fully functional in 2009 [source: NASA].

Drought. Ironically, just as the Three Gorges project seeks to prevent flooding, it's causing drought by reducing water levels in the Yangtze River. In 2008, the China Daily newspaper reported that the river had hit its lowest level in 142 years [source: Reuters]. That precipitous drop in water level strand*ed ships and led to water shortages in central and eastern China, including in Shanghai, China's largest city.

Lost species. The dam will flood some animal and plant habitats, while leaving others high and dry. Pollution in the water will make it impossible for many fish to survive. Three Gorges threatens more than 400 plant species, including the Chinese dove tree and dawn redwood, as well as a number of fish and the rare Baiji dolphin.

*Historic relics. The reservoir will inundate ancient villages, temples and burial grounds, destroying thousands of years' worth of irreplaceable history. Archaeologists and historians say almost 1,300 important historical sites will be submerged, including the 4,000-year-old homeland of the ancient Ba people [source: Kennedy].

Dire Warnings of the Three Gorges Dam

Human rights activists, scientists and environmentalists have been voicing serious concerns about Three Gorges since plans were approved in the early 1990s. Even Chinese Premier Zhu Rongji issued a dire warning when he toured the dam site in 1999, saying, "The responsibility on your shoulders is heavier than a mountain. Any carelessness or negligence will bring disaster to our future generations and cause irretrievable losses" [source: Kennedy]. Chinese journalist Dai Qing has been one of the most outspoken critics of Three Gorges. She once called the project "The most environmentally and socially destructive project in the world" [source: Kennedy]. In 1989, Qing spent 10 months in prison for her views.

For many years the Chinese government hailed the virtues of the project and downplayed any harm it might cause. Then, in a September 2007 meeting in the city of Wuhan, the government's tune seemed to change. Officials warned of the project's "hidden dangers," and said it had the potential to cause a "huge disaster […] if steps are not taken promptly" [source: Yang].

The Chinese government is taking steps -- to the tune of billions of dollars -- to make the dam and reservoir safer. It's spending $3.2 billion on water treatment projects, and another $1.6 billion on fortifying the reservoir banks to prevent landslides [sources: China Environmental News Digest and International Rivers]. It's finding new spawning areas for threatened fish species, and it moved many ancient relics before they ended up underwater.

However, despite serious concerns about its safety, the Three Gorges Dam project continues. Not only is it proceeding, but there are also plans under way to create 12 more hydropower facilities on the middle and upper Yangtze. The Chinese government is also looking to replicate the Three Gorges model elsewhere, with 13 dams planned for the Nu River and eight dams on the Lancang (Upper Mekong) River, all in an effort to increase the country's hydropower capacity to 300 gigawatts (300 million kilowatts) by 2020 [source: Yardley]. These dams could potentially displace thousands more people, and cause ecological nightmares of their own.

*To learn more about dams and China, look over the next page.

The Link

Howstuffworks "Why could China's Three Gorges Dam cause an environmental disaster?"

The References

Sources

* BBC News. "Three Gorges dam wall completed." May 20, 2006. BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Three Gorges dam wall completed
* China Three Gorges Project.
CHINA THREE GORGES PROJECT
* Gettleman, Elizabeth. "Conspiracy Watch: Three Gorges Dam." Mother Jones.
Conspiracy Watch: Three Gorges Dam | Mother Jones
* "Great Wall Across the Yangtze." PBS.
Great Wall Across the Yangtze, Three Gorges Dam
* Hvistendahl, Mara. "China's Three Gorges Dam: An Environmental Catastrophe?" Scientific American. March 25, 2008.
China's Three Gorges Dam: An Environmental Catastrophe?: Scientific American
&print=true
* International Rivers. "Three Gorges Dam: The Cost of Power." http://internationalrivers.org/en/china/three-gorges-dam/three-gorges-
dam-the-cost-power
* Kennedy, Bruce. "China's Three Gorges Dam." CNN.com.
CNN In-Depth Specials - Visions of China - Asian Superpower
/three.gorges/
* Kuhn, Anthony. "Concerns Rise with Water of Three Gorges Dam." NPR. Nov. 19, 2008. Concerns Rise with Water of Three Gorges Dam : NPR
* Macartney, Jane. "Three Gorges Dam is a disaster in the making, China admits." Times Online. Sept. 27, 2007.
Three Gorges Dam is a disaster in the making, China admits - Times Online
* "NASA Satellites Watch as China Constructs Giant Dam." NASA. June 14, 2007.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2007/dam_
construct.html
* Oster, Shai. "World News: China Clears The Last Town For Huge Dam." The Wall Street Journal, July 24, 2008, pg. A 7.
* "Three Gorges Dam." PBS.
BUILDING BIG: Databank: Three Gorges Dam
* Yang, Lin. "China's Three Gorges Dam Under Fire." Time. Oct. 12, 2007.
China's Three Gorges Dam Under Fire -- Printout -- TIME
* Yardley, Jim. "Chinese Dam Projects Criticized for Their Human Costs." The New York Times. Nov. 19, 2007.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/world/asia/19dam.html?_r=1

This shows the CCP engineers have enough headaches so they will not try another dam

Please don't get disappointed by this

3)The Tibetian terrain is such that nothing short of nuclear bombs will
help in diverting a river .If they use nukes near a river whose waters
are used by other countries .It is equivalent to unilateral declaration of war.

4)Even if they build the dam then China will set an International example.Then we can build all the dams India want on the Indus and you cannot even take it for granted because .You dont have the scale of rainfall in Pakistan .

So please pray that the Chinese won't build the dam

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

To all Chinese members,

Please do not get emotional or confrontational with Indians. Be patient and compassionate. Put our selves in theirs sandels. Peace!

 

[sonofakila]

^^^^
Please contribute something constuctive and informative relating to the topic sino. Your contribution to almost every thread is almost always off topic.

 

[EjazR]

Well if this is true, this will definitely help Bangladeshis partner with India to counter Myanmar-China. I think its time India supports Bangladesh with its confrontation with Myanman forces as we all know its China supporting the anti-Bangladesh military Junta there.

 

[Goodperson]

Well if this is true, this will definitely help Bangladeshis partner with India to counter Myanmar-China. I think its time India supports Bangladesh with its confrontation with Myanman forces as we all know its China supporting the anti-Bangladesh military Junta there.

The matter is between India and China. India does not interfere in other country's affairs.

 

[Spitfighter]

It's not hard to digest at all.

China kicks your *** so, just because you can't stand up to China, you run away and go and take someone else's water.

What a pathetic, loser attitude...

You're one to talk, we don't need to cheer for anyone besides ourselves to get through the day. We don't hope and pray that China will come to our rescue nor do we expect them to fight our battles.

Exhibit A: Just because Pakistan can't stand up to India (besides the usual macho 10 = 1 'we never needed bangladesh' BS) you jump for joy at the slightest hint of a diplomatic tussle.

Everyone enjoys watching a bully get whipped!

That's right, you can only watch from the sidelines. We can fend for ourselves thank you very much.

 

[dvk1982]

It's not hard to digest at all.

China kicks your *** so, just because you can't stand up to China, you run away and go and take someone else's water.

What a pathetic, loser attitude...

so if building dams in ur own lands is losers attitude what do u say when u can't build dams which u want to !!!

Whatever India can do.. can be done only through negotiations... and whoever china or india or xyz builds dams in the up streams can't be stopped unless both parties want to do sth together.... ignorant post at the best...

 

[gogbot]

fresh water is becoming scarce all over the world.
Climate change has already affected the refreshment of the rivers, by lowering rains and increasing melt rate..

Unless better technologies are developed to make use of sea water. we may soon find ourselves fighting over fresh water.

Hopefully this idea can deliver.
desalination systems is be the only way we can generate the fresh water we need at this point.

 

[indiatech]

Before the Dibang river in Arunachal becomes Brahmaputra in assam it meets 2 other rivers Dihing and Lohit. Dibang(Tsangpo in Tibet) is not the only source of Brahmaputra. Besides there are 40 rivers in assam that meets Brahmaputra from the north and the south , Some of which originates from Bhutan. Each of these rivers itself are a flood havoc , and then there is the mighty Brahmaputra.

Water is not an issue considering volumes of rain in assam and its natural water sources and rivers. Hardly any minicipalty uses Brahmaputra water for treatment.

Well its upto us to let the nature be as it is or try to disturb it. Changing the course of nature to fulfill mans materialistic needs is one thing.


Take as much water you want to anywhere we want. The left over Brahmaputra will still be good enough for India and Bangladesh.

 

[sathruvinasakh]

Well if this is true, this will definitely help Bangladeshis partner with India to counter Myanmar-China. I think its time India supports Bangladesh with its confrontation with Myanman forces as we all know its China supporting the anti-Bangladesh military Junta there.

that is the most speculative approach huh?
But on the ground the reality bites.
India needs both Bangla and Myanmar.

There will a trilateral pact.

 

[oceanx]

It was written all over the natal and astrologic charts analysed by the famous astrologists world wide.No one can change the fate.can you?

A soon to be put off fire burns so high and brright.same goes with China.History repeats always.

And the Indian help in bringing democracy in china will be? Being a silent spectator and having fun watching the decade long movie.

I personally advice china to build as many dams .

D@mn dam! I feel cheated - why didn't you bring the astrology, I mean, destiny chart to me before? So that's all it will take to bring Democracy to China? Heell, why did I demonstrate in highschool even the day after 6.4 back then?

Now PRC would have to build the dams and let's make sure the dams go big ... for who doesn't want democracy? And people lose hair over "how to bring democracy" to China ...

This is affordable democracy indeed. Now I really wanna know when the ground-breaking will take place for the dams. 2020 - only 10 years left.

to the Saffron Jihad for World Wide Democracy!