China Hong Kong SAR: News and Images

[AgentOrange]

loool what type of logic are you using here man? and what point are you trying to make? Truth be told, you shouldn't even be posting the link you just posted, since it instead shows that what i was saying is even more true. Look at it this way bro, how is our leader deciding not to meet the Dalai lama link with China interfering in our internal Affairs?lol Instead, our leaders should never have met the Dalai Lama in the first place, since he is considered a seperatist by China(similar to a traitor/ennemy of state), so if you really had the power as you seem to think, then no country would have ever dared harbour/meet such a seperatist figure in the first place(much less countries who have close trade links with your country, like the U.S, U.K, France, Japan, etc). So our leaders meeting the Dalai Lama in the first place is already a failure for Chinas government 'influence'. The hell, he has even been living in your neighbouring country India now for decades without you people ever being able to do anything about it. If you cant even exert influence/pressure on a much weaker neghbour of yours then how do you expect to ever influence our internal affairs giving we are much wealthier/developed country? lol Lets say the U.S/western country was in china's situation , can you imagine the U.S/west ever allowing a seperatist tolive freely and propagate negative news/call for protests againt the U.S say in Mexico? lool That wont ever happen, the hell, just look at eduard snowden and Julian assange who daredgo against the U.S government and constituted a threat to U.S security(though they dont even compare to Dalai lama seperatist tendency as a threat), the former is still hiding in Russia after Hong Kong-China got too scared of the U.S to be courageous enough to allow him to stay in China(though had it been the U.S then of course they would have be more than happy to welcome such a chinese dissident to seek refuge/protection in the U.S.lol), so thats why he went to Russia , at least though our governments despise the Russians, we still respect them because they have balls(even though they are far more weaker economically). Why didnt China allow snowden to seek refuge in China like the U.S happily does with Chinese dissidents? We all know the answer. As for the second one(Julian assange) he is still hold up in Ecuadorian embassy here in U.K for years now he hasnt even been able to see the outside world as he cant even leave the place for fear of being arrested and 'put on trial' alias rape charges for leaking government files/secrets to the public and 'harming U.S/western interests'.

Now thats how a real power is exercised, apart from Russia, i dont see any major power out there who is strong/willing enough to stand up to our governments in the west/U.S and welcome our dissidents openly like we do with other developing countries(china included). So on this one i must say i admire/respect the Russians(they even went as far as killing Alexander Litvinienko here in London, who was a fugitive officer of the Russian FSB secret service and he was working for our secret service, but twas working for our secret services, those Russian bastards.), they still got those soviets era guts to challenge us openly like we do with them(kinda like tit for tat) Cant say the same for the Chinese though(who got too scared to even host Snowden who's 'security/freedom' was being threatened by the U.S and its allies). To be honest, China is trying/growing fast though still being a developing/relatively poor country(about $7000 GDP per capital), but you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong, and much less being able to inlfuence the internal affairs of we in the west/U.S. You still have a long wayyy to go in terms of learning how to do covert operations overseas/forment internal unrest/issues like we in the west/U.S have been doing for decades now.. Note im just making an observation, nothing personal. Since all what i stated is just our governments foreign policies, most of which i dont support/im against.

You don't make any sense. Chinese influence made you compromise your democratic principles for renewed access to Chinese markets. You Brits sold out, basically, by refusing to meet with the Dalai Lama and essentially apologizing for even having contemplated further interaction with him. All so you wouldn't be shunned by China. That's a clear demonstration of Chinese influence over Britain. Did you even read the article?

As for the Dalai Lama living in India, if you were even the slightest bit informed, it is he who wants back into China and it is he who wants negotiations with China. China is operating from a position of power and is waiting for him to die, while refusing to acknowledge his existence in the meantime. China has all the leverage yet you come to the complete opposite conclusion somehow.

With regards to Snowden, Hong Kong let him stay there until he decided to go to Russia. US officials were pressing to get him back but no dice. China effectively said "FU" to the US and let the local Hong Kong authorities handle it. That's a slap in the face if I ever saw it. Trivialize, what to Americans, amounted to a huge national security issue by letting local cops take care of Snowden's protection and refusing to allow American authorities to see him. I mean, you had your chance to nab him - Britain should have used its "almighty influence" (according to you, and you alone) over Hong Kong, yet Hong Kong let him leisurely choose his place of residence and he left after exposing a ton of western secrets publicly and privately giving Chinese intelligence agencies a bunch of classified materials. I fail to see how you claim that as a Western victory? Delusion again?

As for the Hong Kong protest thing, you said "you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong." News flash, it's not illegal to protest in Hong Kong. It was orderly and there was no rioting. It's the same in the UK. That's why people have flown the ISIS flag in downtown London even in the aftermath of foreign jihadis murdering British soldiers on their own soil. (talk about not being able to maintain law and order ) Freedom of expression and assembly is a hallmark of "democratic societies" yes? I assume you understand that simple truth since you say you're British. In which case, why is it a law and order issue when people are exercising their legal rights in an orderly manner?

People who broke any laws during the protests were arrested and the protests died out on their own after gaining no traction amongst the vast majority of Hong Kong residents. From hundreds of thousands of protesters to a few hundred today with the remaining few agreeing to police instructions to not block roads or storefronts. That's why they were all hanging out under bridges like homeless people last week and that's why they're in front of the British consulate now. Legally protesting British weakness and inability to effect any democratic change in Hong Kong while your British officials cower in shame at their utter impotence. So much for British influence.

So basically you've disproved none of my points and managed to look uninformed in the process. Congrats? It's clear we're talking past each other at this point.

P.S. It's not the job of the "secret service" to handle protesters, either in China or the United States. Do you even know what a "secret service" does before you claim that China doesn't have one? Scratch that, you obviously have no idea. Seriously, my friend, you need to do some reading and educate yourself before you post anymore in the future. Just some friendly advice from one PDFer to another. Cheers bud.

 

[terranMarine]

If China had succumbed to American pressure, HK police would have taken Snowden into custody and deported him back to US.
Instead order came from Beijing to HK for letting him travel to Moscow.

On June 22—18 days after publication of Snowden's NSA documents began—U.S. officials revoked his passport.[205] On June 23, Snowden boarded the commercial Aeroflot flight SU213 to Moscow, accompanied by Sarah Harrison of WikiLeaks.[206][207] Hong Kong authorities said that Snowden had not been detained as requested by the United States, because the United States' extradition request had not fully complied with Hong Kong law,[208][209] and there was no legal basis to prevent Snowden from leaving.[210][211][Notes 1] On June 24, U.S. State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell said "we're just not buying that this was a technical decision by a Hong Kong immigration official. This was a deliberate choice by the government to release a fugitive despite a valid arrest warrant … though the Privacy Act prohibits me from talking about Mr. Snowden's passport specifically, I can say that the Hong Kong authorities were well aware of our interest in Mr. Snowden and had plenty of time to prohibit his travel."[214] That same day, Julian Assange said that WikiLeaks had paid for Snowden's lodging in Hong Kong and his flight out.[215]

Now i'd like to see some British influence on how to "rescue" the killer of two Indonesian women, you know the British banker

 

[AgentOrange]

If China had succumbed to American pressure, HK police would have taken Snowden into custody and deported him back to US.
Instead order came from Beijing to HK for letting him travel to Moscow.

On June 22—18 days after publication of Snowden's NSA documents began—U.S. officials revoked his passport.[205] On June 23, Snowden boarded the commercial Aeroflot flight SU213 to Moscow, accompanied by Sarah Harrison of WikiLeaks.[206][207] Hong Kong authorities said that Snowden had not been detained as requested by the United States, because the United States' extradition request had not fully complied with Hong Kong law,[208][209] and there was no legal basis to prevent Snowden from leaving.[210][211][Notes 1] On June 24, U.S. State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell said "we're just not buying that this was a technical decision by a Hong Kong immigration official. This was a deliberate choice by the government to release a fugitive despite a valid arrest warrant … though the Privacy Act prohibits me from talking about Mr. Snowden's passport specifically, I can say that the Hong Kong authorities were well aware of our interest in Mr. Snowden and had plenty of time to prohibit his travel."[214] That same day, Julian Assange said that WikiLeaks had paid for Snowden's lodging in Hong Kong and his flight out.[215]

Now i'd like to see some British influence on how to "rescue" the killer of two Indonesian women, you know the British banker

He's actually going to completely misconstrue what happened and declare China's acquisition of Snowden's secrets and Snowden's ultimate refuge in Russia as a great victory for the influential and powerful United Kingdom. For some people, it's hard to accept that their crappy little island is powerless and irrelevant. Even though the truth hurts, it doesn't make it any less true.

 

[terranMarine]

He's actually going to completely misconstrue what happened and declare China's acquisition of Snowden's secrets and Snowden's ultimate refuge in Russia as a great victory for the influential and powerful United Kingdom. For some people, it's hard to accept that their crappy little island is powerless and irrelevant. Even though the truth hurts, it doesn't make it any less true.

Definitely, the guy must be daydreaming of the British Empire influence. That's long gone, we are living in the 21st Century. Recent events showed they almost lost Scotland, the EU is telling the Brits to shut up and pay the bill, Merkel also would love to see UK out if Cameron is having issues with the immigration policy. It appears UK is not that relevant as the poor chap wished it to be.

Indeed the Lama is trying to beg China for letting him return back to Tibet, i guess his host country isn't the utopia he thought it was. There's no need for us to kill the old geezer, his time is running out that is why he wishes to die in his birth place. To no avail his callings are ignored

 

[AgentOrange]

Definitely, the guy must be daydreaming of the British Empire influence. That's long gone, we are living in the 21st Century. Recent events showed they almost lost Scotland, the EU is telling the Brits to shut up and pay the bill, Merkel also would love to see UK out if Cameron is having issues with the immigration policy. It appears UK is not that relevant as the poor chap wished it to be.

Indeed the Lama is trying to beg China for letting him return back to Tibet, i guess his host country isn't the utopia he thought it was. There's no need for us to kill the old geezer, his time is running out that is why he wishes to die in his birth place. To no avail his callings are ignored

Yep, and there are threats of *another* Scottish independence referendum if the UK becomes isolationist and backs out of the EU. Some influence eh? Stuck on a sh1tty little island only to realize that part of your sh1tty little island doesn't even want anything to do with you. The best thing the Brits can do is to die quietly in the corner while Islamists take over what little territory they have left. No more dreams of grandeur. Just sleep.

 

[terranMarine]

Yep, and there are threats of *another* Scottish independence referendum if the UK becomes isolationist and backs out of the EU. Some influence eh? Stuck on a sh1tty little island only to realize that part of your sh1tty little island doesn't even want anything to do with you. The best thing the Brits can do is to die quietly in the corner while Islamists take over what little territory they have left. No more dreams of grandeur. Just sleep.

The only pride they have left is the mastering of turbofans, that's not what i would classify as global influence *yawns*
Even the Japanese have achieved that through animation, and for a short period of time the Koreans with their gangnam style had spread through the globe causing a massive hysteria. Face it the British has no global cultural influence, hardly a global political leverage. The arrogance of the British Empire must still be living on in his mind, he should just move on and accept reality.

 

[northeast]

Come on,Who really cares,a bunch of baby cowards and bitches.

 

[mike2000]

If China had succumbed to American pressure, HK police would have taken Snowden into custody and deported him back to US.
Instead order came from Beijing to HK for letting him travel to Moscow.

On June 22—18 days after publication of Snowden's NSA documents began—U.S. officials revoked his passport.[205] On June 23, Snowden boarded the commercial Aeroflot flight SU213 to Moscow, accompanied by Sarah Harrison of WikiLeaks.[206][207] Hong Kong authorities said that Snowden had not been detained as requested by the United States, because the United States' extradition request had not fully complied with Hong Kong law,[208][209] and there was no legal basis to prevent Snowden from leaving.[210][211][Notes 1] On June 24, U.S. State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell said "we're just not buying that this was a technical decision by a Hong Kong immigration official. This was a deliberate choice by the government to release a fugitive despite a valid arrest warrant … though the Privacy Act prohibits me from talking about Mr. Snowden's passport specifically, I can say that the Hong Kong authorities were well aware of our interest in Mr. Snowden and had plenty of time to prohibit his travel."[214] That same day, Julian Assange said that WikiLeaks had paid for Snowden's lodging in Hong Kong and his flight out.[215]

Now i'd like to see some British influence on how to "rescue" the killer of two Indonesian women, you know the British banker

lolYou still dont get my point. For China not to have taken Eduard snowden and accepted him to come seek refuge on chinese soil in itself already shows your government was scared of U.S reaction. If you indeed were that powerful as you said you will have obviously allowed him to come seek permanent refuge in China itself, but your government didnt for obvious reasons. Which is why he decided it will be better for him to travelto Russia, since the Russians openly admitted they would grant him permanent refuge/even residency and protect him from any U.S prosecution. Now thats what i expected from China, to be honest i was hoping/thinking your government will grant him refuge just like the U.S has been doing with all your dissidents for decades, but the one opportunity your government had, they got scared of taking it. Let me just ask you a simple question: Lets assume Snowden was a chinese and did that to chinas government, then fled to the U.S , do you think the U.S wouldnt have given him refuge and openly support him? As i said, only Russia has the balls to play the tit for tat game we have been playing with them for decades now(like they proved by allowing snowden to seek permanent refuge in Russia openly unlike China).. China is still trying to learn how to play this game.

You didnt even tell me why your government has been unable to exert pressure over an immediate much weaker country India for them allowing their soil to be used for Tiebtans who frequently protests against Chinas 'dictatorial regime/oppression of Tibetans' in Tibet. If a seperatist leader/traitor as your government claims, can be allowed to freely live in your immediate neighbourhood, then its enough prove by itself that your government has failed in this department. They even hold rallies veery year when your prime ministers/president Vists India.lool How come China hasnt force India to stop giving refuge/protection to this seperatists/self proclaimed governemnt in exile? Can you imagine a U.S seperatist leader living freely in Mexico for decades and his followers keep poking/holding protests when U.S president visits Mexico?lol Mexico will be bomb back to the stone age if they ever tried that believe me. As i said before China still has a long way to go before they can truly know how to use their economic(and growing military) power to coerce countries/influence internal affairs of countries like the U.S has been doing to China for decades now. Indias harbouring of tibetans dissidents/seperatists is a clear illustration of that. I dont know how you people can say that Dalai lama wanting to return back to China is a victory for China.. He shouldnt have been living in your neighbourhood and carrying out his activvities in the first place. Its indeed a failure.If you cant see that, then i dont know what else will be considered a foreign policy failure for you to be honest. Im sure if Russia had been in your shoes, they will have long got rid of him(like they did with Alexander Litvinienko in London which i far far more a daunting/difficult task than taking on the Dalai Lama in India).

 

[mike2000]

The only pride they have left is the mastering of turbofans, that's not what i would classify as global influence *yawns*
Even the Japanese have achieved that through animation, and for a short period of time the Koreans with their gangnam style had spread through the globe causing a massive hysteria. Face it the British has no global cultural influence, hardly a global political leverage. The arrogance of the British Empire must still be living on in his mind, he should just move on and accept reality.

lool you talking of Britsh cultural influence bros? Do you even know that there are many T.V shows/programs in the U.S who mimick Britsh T.V shows? and there has been several british musicians/artists who even topped american tv charts(you just might not know about them since we and the U.S are quite similar, so some people might not even know the difference), moreover our language alone is spoke the world over as defacto world language(there is no further prove a country influence than when a foreign country speaks your language, imagine Chinese was spoken all over Asia, can you imagine how you people here will be boasting about it day and night? lol . You shouldnt even talk of cultutral influence, since we have wayyyyyy more than China. You should have talked about another field which china might be ahead, not cultural influence in which China lags wayyy behind even its east asian peers(mainly due to the communist party past cultural revolution which destroyed almodst all chinese traditional culture, luckily for Tiwan it escaped that onslaught) talk less of Britain.

China should be the one dominating east Asia cultural cultural scene, not South Korea or Japan since both countries derived much of their language and culture from China. So it should instead be a shame you are now lagging behind them, and your youths are now being influenced by them instead of it being the opposite since you are the bigger one.

This is something your own most nationalistic media acknowledged not me

Beijing needs crash course from S.Korea in soft power PSY-chology - Global Times

5 Great British Shows America Got Right With Remakes And 5 They Cocked Up

 

[cnleio]

Ladies and Gentlemen, a good news ... soon HongKong police start to clean all protesters on streets ... next week watch the HongKong Show on time.


APEC is over, HongKong police get ready ... !

 

[mike2000]

He's actually going to completely misconstrue what happened and declare China's acquisition of Snowden's secrets and Snowden's ultimate refuge in Russia as a great victory for the influential and powerful United Kingdom. For some people, it's hard to accept that their crappy little island is powerless and irrelevant. Even though the truth hurts, it doesn't make it any less true.

It was a failure, China should have given him refuge and openly supported him like our governments in the U.S/west have been doing with your dissident for decades. Moreover as i said, the protest in Hong Kong were not entirely an internaa matter as even your most nationalistic Chinese member here(Biedou) admitted, it was financed/encourgaed by foreign powers as well, this is why i said your secret serviced failed on preventing this miserably. I dont understand how you people cant even recognise this Or you are just being too nationalistic(not more than Beidou who himself admitted this.lool)I thought one chinese members here posted pictures of U.S officilas/agents meeting with Occupy Hoing kong activist before the Protests. Yet you still claim its all an internal affair?lol Ok if thats what you people truly think, then good for you then, stop blaming the protetsers as traitors/foreign slaves then if thats the case. On one side you claim we had no influence over the protests and on another one you claim the protesters are foolish youths who are being fooled/manipulated by foreign agents/powers(like Hong Long Chief executive himself admitted). So im confused, which one is it finally man?

Note that if you have red my posts on here , im actually against our governments foreign policies of getting involve in other soverign countries internal affairs in the first place, i believe each country should be allowed to solve their problems themselves, we have our own iissues to sort out internally as wel. But our leaders in the west/U.S are already used to telling others what to do/getting involve in others internal affairs for a long time now, guess old habits die hard. Anyway it geo politics and i know its never a clean game. So theres nothing much we civilians can do about it other than analysze how events unfold/play out. So im just making observations, not taking sides.

 

[mike2000]

Definitely, the guy must be daydreaming of the British Empire influence. That's long gone, we are living in the 21st Century. Recent events showed they almost lost Scotland, the EU is telling the Brits to shut up and pay the bill, Merkel also would love to see UK out if Cameron is having issues with the immigration policy. It appears UK is not that relevant as the poor chap wished it to be.

Indeed the Lama is trying to beg China for letting him return back to Tibet, i guess his host country isn't the utopia he thought it was. There's no need for us to kill the old geezer, his time is running out that is why he wishes to die in his birth place. To no avail his callings are ignored

Check my posts above, morever you havent been able to ever influence our internal affairs like we do with you regularly, even when we had riots in U.K your government never uttered a single words on this. Just shows they know they cant change anything/influence anything on our soil. Moreover while we are talking the U.S is taking even more open approach in Hong LKong than us lately, read the following news:

US Congress Tables Bill Seeking To Monitor Democratic Progress In Hong Kong

The U.S. congress has tabled a bill calls for the country to monitor democratic development in Hong Kong. The city has been rocked by pro-democracy protests for the last six weeks. Getty Images
HONG KONG -- A bipartisan bill was tabled in the U.S. Congress Thursday, seeking to monitor the development of democracy and political rights in Hong Kong under a 1992 law, according to reports.

The Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Bill was submitted to both the House of Representatives and the Senate, and called for the revival of annual reports by the U.S. government to Congress on political developments in Hong Kong, according to Radio Free Asia.

“Hong Kong’s autonomy and freedoms -- essential to its relations with the US -- are under threat from China,” said Senator Sherrod Brown, a Democrat and co-chairman of the commission, according to a report from the South China Morning Post. “At this critical time, we must strongly support the universal rights of the people of Hong Kong, including free and fair elections in 2017 and beyond.

“Our bipartisan bill would ensure that the United States can continue to monitor Hong Kong while ensuring that its democracy and freedoms remain a cornerstone of US policy.”

Under the proposed bill, the state department would be required to reinstate and strengthen an annual report to Congress on the situation in Hong Kong, according to the Journal of Turkish Weekly.

The legislation would also "require the [U.S.] President to certify that Hong Kong is sufficiently autonomous before enacting any new laws or agreements affording Hong Kong different treatment from the People's Republic of China."

The committee's move comes as relations between the U.S. and China appear to have at least partially thawed, with the announcement earlier this week of a historic deal between the two countries to limit greenhouse gas emissions and tackle climate change.

China has repeatedly expressed concern that the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong are the result of “foreign interference,” a claim Chinese President Xi Jinping repeated at the APEC summit this week. President Barack Obama specifically denied such assertions at the same summit this week.

“Our primary message has been to make sure that violence is avoided as the people of Hong Kong try to sort through what the next phase is of their relationship to the mainland,” Obama said in response to reporters' questions at the U.S. embassy in Beijing, according to Politico.

Lawmakers in Hong Kong have told the International Business Times, before and during the outbreak of pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong, that China is deeply concerned at the prospect of allowing the city's chief executive to be elected without political vetting from Beijing. According to highly placed sources in the city's political structure, China's Communist Party government considers fully democratic elections as an invitation to the U.S. or U.K. to influence the city's political development.

Concern about foreign influence is widespread in China. Many Chinese online commenters, some of whom are suspected to be employed by Chinese government agencies, cite the nineteenth-century Opium Wars between the U.K. and China as a reason for their distrust of Western countries.

China's state-run People's Daily newspaper published an editorial in October, which stated: “Of course, the US will not admit it is manipulating 'Occupy Central', just as they will not admit it is controlling other anti-Chinese forces. They will legitimize their moves under the values of 'democracy, freedom and human rights',” according to the SCMP.

In October, U.S. politicians and administration officials called on Washington to become more vocal in its support of pro-democracy forces in Hong Kong, describing local democracy aspirations as an increasingly important human rights issue, according to the Wall Street Journal.

Pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong have occupied sites around the city for six weeks, and are now facing the prospect of eviction, after a local court ruling decreed that bailiffs and police could take action to clear protesters and their barricades from the streets.


US Congress Tables Bill Seeking To Monitor Democratic Progress In Hong Kong

 

[AgentOrange]

It was a failure, China should have given him refuge and openly supported him like our governments in the U.S/west have been doing with your dissident for decades. Moreover as i said, the protest in Hong Kong were not entirely an internaa matter as even your most nationalistic Chinese member here(Biedou) admitted, it was financed/encourgaed by foreign powers as well, this is why i said your secret serviced failed on preventing this miserably. I dont understand how you people cant even recognise this Or you are just being too nationalistic(not more than Beidou who himself admitted this.lool)I thought one chinese members here posted pictures of U.S officilas/agents meeting with Occupy Hoing kong activist before the Protests. Yet you still claim its all an internal affair?lol Ok if thats what you people truly think, then good for you then, stop blaming the protetsers as traitors/foreign slaves then if thats the case. On one side you claim we had no influence over the protests and on another one you claim the protesters are foolish youths who are being fooled/manipulated by foreign agents/powers(like Hong Long Chief executive himself admitted). So im confused, which one is it finally man?

Note that if you have red my posts on here , im actually against our governments foreign policies of getting involve in other soverign countries internal affairs in the first place, i believe each country should be allowed to solve their problems themselves, we have our own iissues to sort out internally as wel. But our leaders in the west/U.S are already used to telling others what to do/getting involve in others internal affairs for a long time now, guess old habits die hard. Anyway it geo politics and i know its never a clean game. So theres nothing much we civilians can do about it other than analysze how events unfold/play out. So im just making observations, not taking sides.

I'm going to copy/paste the responses that I wrote to you earlier since you completely avoided addressing any of them while still repeating the same tired arguments that I had already previously addressed (and that you avoided). Here you go:

Part 1)
You don't make any sense. Chinese influence made you compromise your democratic principles for renewed access to Chinese markets. You Brits sold out, basically, by refusing to meet with the Dalai Lama and essentially apologizing for even having contemplated further interaction with him. All so you wouldn't be shunned by China. That's a clear demonstration of Chinese influence over Britain. Did you even read the article?

As for the Dalai Lama living in India, if you were even the slightest bit informed, it is he who wants back into China and it is he who wants negotiations with China. China is operating from a position of power and is waiting for him to die, while refusing to acknowledge his existence in the meantime. China has all the leverage yet you come to the complete opposite conclusion somehow.

With regards to Snowden, Hong Kong let him stay there until he decided to go to Russia. US officials were pressing to get him back but no dice. China effectively said "FU" to the US and let the local Hong Kong authorities handle it. That's a slap in the face if I ever saw it. Trivialize, what to Americans, amounted to a huge national security issue by letting local cops take care of Snowden's protection and refusing to allow American authorities to see him. I mean, you had your chance to nab him - Britain should have used its "almighty influence" (according to you, and you alone) over Hong Kong, yet Hong Kong let him leisurely choose his place of residence and he left after exposing a ton of western secrets publicly and privately giving Chinese intelligence agencies a bunch of classified materials. I fail to see how you claim that as a Western victory? Delusion again?

As for the Hong Kong protest thing, you said "you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong." News flash, it's not illegal to protest in Hong Kong. It was orderly and there was no rioting. It's the same in the UK. That's why people have flown the ISIS flag in downtown London even in the aftermath of foreign jihadis murdering British soldiers on their own soil. (talk about not being able to maintain law and order ) Freedom of expression and assembly is a hallmark of "democratic societies" yes? I assume you understand that simple truth since you say you're British. In which case, why is it a law and order issue when people are exercising their legal rights in an orderly manner?

People who broke any laws during the protests were arrested and the protests died out on their own after gaining no traction amongst the vast majority of Hong Kong residents. From hundreds of thousands of protesters to a few hundred today with the remaining few agreeing to police instructions to not block roads or storefronts. That's why they were all hanging out under bridges like homeless people last week and that's why they're in front of the British consulate now. Legally protesting British weakness and inability to effect any democratic change in Hong Kong while your British officials cower in shame at their utter impotence. So much for British influence.

So basically you've disproved none of my points and managed to look uninformed in the process. Congrats? It's clear we're talking past each other at this point.

P.S. It's not the job of the "secret service" to handle protesters, either in China or the United States. Do you even know what a "secret service" does before you claim that China doesn't have one? Scratch that, you obviously have no idea. Seriously, my friend, you need to do some reading and educate yourself before you post anymore in the future. Just some friendly advice from one PDFer to another. Cheers bud.

Source: Hong Kong protesters to occupy British consulate over 'lack of UK government support' | Page 5

Part 2) You wrote:
"For our governments to have even stated that and pressured China not to execute him (which made headlines news the world over by the way) to me shouldnt even had happned in the first place. How many Chinese have been imprisoned in the west for crimes without the Chinese government even knwoing about/protesting at all? lool The answer to this is all Chinse citizen who commit crimes abroad are not even talked about at all unlike western citizens who if they travel to any country in the world(China included) and commit a crime and are imprisoned/executed, then it will make headline news the world over. Meanwhile,Other non western countries, its not the case at all, since when it happens, nobody eve gives a shit/cares to talk about them. The World is really unfair."

Source: Hong Kong protesters to occupy British consulate over 'lack of UK government support' | Page 5

I responded (and you avoided):
It made the news because no Western countries execute people for drug smuggling and other non-violent offences whereas China does and did. Otherwise, I don't think there would have been any public pressure. Similar to western news talks about westerners in trouble overseas. Chinese news has plenty of articles about Chinese people who get in trouble overseas. Just because you're completely ignorant of Chinese affairs doesn't mean it isn't happening. I mean, you are aware there are a multitude of Chinese newspapers and news sites that focus on Chinese matters and don't give a crap about what happens to random westerners in Chinese prisons right? I mean, you understand that the one or two news sites you visit aren't the only ones on planet earth?


One last point about Snowden - it was a huge intelligence windfall for China and one of the worst intelligence disasters in recent Western history. There's literally no way you can spin that as a "win" even though your hurt British pride is telling you to do so. Even your beloved Western media decried it as a huge catastrophe. But anyways, from now on, I'm going to keep reposting my old responses to you until you are capable of addressing them point by point. Show me that I'm not debating with a wall and I'll spend more effort on your "replies."

 

[mike2000]

I'm going to copy/paste the responses that I wrote to you earlier since you completely avoided addressing any of them while still repeating the same tired arguments that I had already previously addressed (and that you avoided). Here you go:

Part 1)
You don't make any sense. Chinese influence made you compromise your democratic principles for renewed access to Chinese markets. You Brits sold out, basically, by refusing to meet with the Dalai Lama and essentially apologizing for even having contemplated further interaction with him. All so you wouldn't be shunned by China. That's a clear demonstration of Chinese influence over Britain. Did you even read the article?

As for the Dalai Lama living in India, if you were even the slightest bit informed, it is he who wants back into China and it is he who wants negotiations with China. China is operating from a position of power and is waiting for him to die, while refusing to acknowledge his existence in the meantime. China has all the leverage yet you come to the complete opposite conclusion somehow.

With regards to Snowden, Hong Kong let him stay there until he decided to go to Russia. US officials were pressing to get him back but no dice. China effectively said "FU" to the US and let the local Hong Kong authorities handle it. That's a slap in the face if I ever saw it. Trivialize, what to Americans, amounted to a huge national security issue by letting local cops take care of Snowden's protection and refusing to allow American authorities to see him. I mean, you had your chance to nab him - Britain should have used its "almighty influence" (according to you, and you alone) over Hong Kong, yet Hong Kong let him leisurely choose his place of residence and he left after exposing a ton of western secrets publicly and privately giving Chinese intelligence agencies a bunch of classified materials. I fail to see how you claim that as a Western victory? Delusion again?

As for the Hong Kong protest thing, you said "you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong." News flash, it's not illegal to protest in Hong Kong. It was orderly and there was no rioting. It's the same in the UK. That's why people have flown the ISIS flag in downtown London even in the aftermath of foreign jihadis murdering British soldiers on their own soil. (talk about not being able to maintain law and order ) Freedom of expression and assembly is a hallmark of "democratic societies" yes? I assume you understand that simple truth since you say you're British. In which case, why is it a law and order issue when people are exercising their legal rights in an orderly manner?

People who broke any laws during the protests were arrested and the protests died out on their own after gaining no traction amongst the vast majority of Hong Kong residents. From hundreds of thousands of protesters to a few hundred today with the remaining few agreeing to police instructions to not block roads or storefronts. That's why they were all hanging out under bridges like homeless people last week and that's why they're in front of the British consulate now. Legally protesting British weakness and inability to effect any democratic change in Hong Kong while your British officials cower in shame at their utter impotence. So much for British influence.

So basically you've disproved none of my points and managed to look uninformed in the process. Congrats? It's clear we're talking past each other at this point.

P.S. It's not the job of the "secret service" to handle protesters, either in China or the United States. Do you even know what a "secret service" does before you claim that China doesn't have one? Scratch that, you obviously have no idea. Seriously, my friend, you need to do some reading and educate yourself before you post anymore in the future. Just some friendly advice from one PDFer to another. Cheers bud.

Source: Hong Kong protesters to occupy British consulate over 'lack of UK government support' | Page 5

Part 2) You wrote:
"For our governments to have even stated that and pressured China not to execute him (which made headlines news the world over by the way) to me shouldnt even had happned in the first place. How many Chinese have been imprisoned in the west for crimes without the Chinese government even knwoing about/protesting at all? lool The answer to this is all Chinse citizen who commit crimes abroad are not even talked about at all unlike western citizens who if they travel to any country in the world(China included) and commit a crime and are imprisoned/executed, then it will make headline news the world over. Meanwhile,Other non western countries, its not the case at all, since when it happens, nobody eve gives a shit/cares to talk about them. The World is really unfair."

Source: Hong Kong protesters to occupy British consulate over 'lack of UK government support' | Page 5

I responded (and you avoided):
It made the news because no Western countries execute people for drug smuggling and other non-violent offences whereas China does and did. Otherwise, I don't think there would have been any public pressure. Similar to western news talks about westerners in trouble overseas. Chinese news has plenty of articles about Chinese people who get in trouble overseas. Just because you're completely ignorant of Chinese affairs doesn't mean it isn't happening. I mean, you are aware there are a multitude of Chinese newspapers and news sites that focus on Chinese matters and don't give a crap about what happens to random westerners in Chinese prisons right? I mean, you understand that the one or two news sites you visit aren't the only ones on planet earth?


One last point about Snowden - it was a huge intelligence windfall for China and one of the worst intelligence disasters in recent Western history. There's literally no way you can spin that as a "win" even though your hurt British pride is telling you to do so. Even your beloved Western media decried it as a huge catastrophe. But anyways, from now on, I'm going to keep reposting my old responses to you until you are capable of addressing them point by point. Show me that I'm not debating with a wall and I'll spend more effort on your "replies."

lool ok, if thats what you think, then i respect your opinion bro. at least we can agree to disagree respectfully. each p;erson has his own point of view. So was nice exchanging points with you on this.

For now, im just following U.S congress bill on Hong Kong 'democracy/freedom' waiting to see what happens next.

 

[AgentOrange]

lool ok, if thats what you think, then i respect your opinion bro. at least we can agree to disagree respectfully. each p;erson has his own point of view. So was nice exchanging points with you on this.

For now, im just following U.S congress bill on Hong Kong 'democracy/freedom' waiting to see what happens next.

Cheers friend.