AgentOrange
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loool what type of logic are you using here man? and what point are you trying to make? Truth be told, you shouldn't even be posting the link you just posted, since it instead shows that what i was saying is even more true. Look at it this way bro, how is our leader deciding not to meet the Dalai lama link with China interfering in our internal Affairs?lol Instead, our leaders should never have met the Dalai Lama in the first place, since he is considered a seperatist by China(similar to a traitor/ennemy of state), so if you really had the power as you seem to think, then no country would have ever dared harbour/meet such a seperatist figure in the first place(much less countries who have close trade links with your country, like the U.S, U.K, France, Japan, etc). So our leaders meeting the Dalai Lama in the first place is already a failure for Chinas government 'influence'. The hell, he has even been living in your neighbouring country India now for decades without you people ever being able to do anything about it. If you cant even exert influence/pressure on a much weaker neghbour of yours then how do you expect to ever influence our internal affairs giving we are much wealthier/developed country? lol Lets say the U.S/western country was in china's situation , can you imagine the U.S/west ever allowing a seperatist tolive freely and propagate negative news/call for protests againt the U.S say in Mexico? lool That wont ever happen, the hell, just look at eduard snowden and Julian assange who daredgo against the U.S government and constituted a threat to U.S security(though they dont even compare to Dalai lama seperatist tendency as a threat), the former is still hiding in Russia after Hong Kong-China got too scared of the U.S to be courageous enough to allow him to stay in China(though had it been the U.S then of course they would have be more than happy to welcome such a chinese dissident to seek refuge/protection in the U.S.lol), so thats why he went to Russia , at least though our governments despise the Russians, we still respect them because they have balls(even though they are far more weaker economically). Why didnt China allow snowden to seek refuge in China like the U.S happily does with Chinese dissidents? We all know the answer. As for the second one(Julian assange) he is still hold up in Ecuadorian embassy here in U.K for years now he hasnt even been able to see the outside world as he cant even leave the place for fear of being arrested and 'put on trial' alias rape charges for leaking government files/secrets to the public and 'harming U.S/western interests'.
Now thats how a real power is exercised, apart from Russia, i dont see any major power out there who is strong/willing enough to stand up to our governments in the west/U.S and welcome our dissidents openly like we do with other developing countries(china included). So on this one i must say i admire/respect the Russians(they even went as far as killing Alexander Litvinienko here in London, who was a fugitive officer of the Russian FSB secret service and he was working for our secret service, but twas working for our secret services, those Russian bastards.), they still got those soviets era guts to challenge us openly like we do with them(kinda like tit for tat) Cant say the same for the Chinese though(who got too scared to even host Snowden who's 'security/freedom' was being threatened by the U.S and its allies). To be honest, China is trying/growing fast though still being a developing/relatively poor country(about $7000 GDP per capital), but you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong, and much less being able to inlfuence the internal affairs of we in the west/U.S. You still have a long wayyy to go in terms of learning how to do covert operations overseas/forment internal unrest/issues like we in the west/U.S have been doing for decades now.. Note im just making an observation, nothing personal. Since all what i stated is just our governments foreign policies, most of which i dont support/im against.
You don't make any sense. Chinese influence made you compromise your democratic principles for renewed access to Chinese markets. You Brits sold out, basically, by refusing to meet with the Dalai Lama and essentially apologizing for even having contemplated further interaction with him. All so you wouldn't be shunned by China. That's a clear demonstration of Chinese influence over Britain. Did you even read the article?
As for the Dalai Lama living in India, if you were even the slightest bit informed, it is he who wants back into China and it is he who wants negotiations with China. China is operating from a position of power and is waiting for him to die, while refusing to acknowledge his existence in the meantime. China has all the leverage yet you come to the complete opposite conclusion somehow.
With regards to Snowden, Hong Kong let him stay there until he decided to go to Russia. US officials were pressing to get him back but no dice. China effectively said "FU" to the US and let the local Hong Kong authorities handle it. That's a slap in the face if I ever saw it. Trivialize, what to Americans, amounted to a huge national security issue by letting local cops take care of Snowden's protection and refusing to allow American authorities to see him. I mean, you had your chance to nab him - Britain should have used its "almighty influence" (according to you, and you alone) over Hong Kong, yet Hong Kong let him leisurely choose his place of residence and he left after exposing a ton of western secrets publicly and privately giving Chinese intelligence agencies a bunch of classified materials. I fail to see how you claim that as a Western victory? Delusion again?
As for the Hong Kong protest thing, you said "you still dont have any credible secret service to even maintain law and order in your own country from external/foreign powers like we have witnessed in Hong Kong." News flash, it's not illegal to protest in Hong Kong. It was orderly and there was no rioting. It's the same in the UK. That's why people have flown the ISIS flag in downtown London even in the aftermath of foreign jihadis murdering British soldiers on their own soil. (talk about not being able to maintain law and order ) Freedom of expression and assembly is a hallmark of "democratic societies" yes? I assume you understand that simple truth since you say you're British. In which case, why is it a law and order issue when people are exercising their legal rights in an orderly manner?
People who broke any laws during the protests were arrested and the protests died out on their own after gaining no traction amongst the vast majority of Hong Kong residents. From hundreds of thousands of protesters to a few hundred today with the remaining few agreeing to police instructions to not block roads or storefronts. That's why they were all hanging out under bridges like homeless people last week and that's why they're in front of the British consulate now. Legally protesting British weakness and inability to effect any democratic change in Hong Kong while your British officials cower in shame at their utter impotence. So much for British influence.
So basically you've disproved none of my points and managed to look uninformed in the process. Congrats? It's clear we're talking past each other at this point.
P.S. It's not the job of the "secret service" to handle protesters, either in China or the United States. Do you even know what a "secret service" does before you claim that China doesn't have one? Scratch that, you obviously have no idea. Seriously, my friend, you need to do some reading and educate yourself before you post anymore in the future. Just some friendly advice from one PDFer to another. Cheers bud.
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