China communist party paper says China should join TPP

[70U63]

Not sure some of you guys are professional trollers or simply having fun here. We all knew that Chinese governance system is neither communism nor dictatorship. It is one party state.

 

[sweetgrape]

Can't help laughing, may I can understand Vietnam is on the way to color revolution, Japan stagnate in 20 years, and will continue, no one really know China, economy and democracy, hehe "expert"！

Back to topic:
Whether join to TPP or not, there will be more such kind of article, and discuss, don't exciting.

Not sure some of you guys are professional trollers or simply having fun here. We all knew that Chinese governance system is neither communism nor dictatorship. It is one party state.

They don't know or understand China. so they need keep arguing, although some of they sound like expert, but still know nothing on China, Japan argue on Economy, Vietnamese on democracy, What a big joke! let alone connect them with China, hehe!

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

I can not read Chinese, please use English so I can understand.



Thank you. So its like what the Reuter article said, there is a warning that there can be negative things about the TPP, but there are also many positive things. So he is suggesting that China should be open minded, and if it is good in the future, China should join the TPP, compromising as smallest as China can.

Why does your countrymen here get so upset about that?

Never compromise principles. Japanese know the saying: 宁为玉碎不为瓦全。

There is no way that China can join the current TPP. Fact. The future TPP may be suitable for current China, also fact. However, it will be future China that faces future TPP, not current China. Literally the whole argument for TPP can be summed up as: they'll be reforms that China undertakes anyways. Well if they are reforms that will be undertaken anyways, why unnecessarily bind yourself to a treaty you did not write?

lol, lol, you sound like some diehard CPC party members who disagreed that China would join the WTO in 2000.

We extracted a ton of concessions from the WTO such as developing country status that allows us to protect our markets while forcing others to accept our exports for a long period of time. The TPP has no such advantage.

 

[tranquilium]

Umm, I’m not even sure what you are saying. Maybe you are being a bit too paranoid.




The article they got it from was directly published by a journal of the Party school for central committee of CCP (or something like that), they didn’t get it from People’s Daily, etc.

Also, Sputnik news has just published their own article on this.



What do you think about this analysis/comments from an anonymous guy?

与美国相比，我国的实力尚有差距，但正在迅速进步，迎头赶上。提升我国实力的根本途径，除了全面深化改革和扩大对外开放，别无他途。TPP的规则与我国改革开放方向相契合，在许多方面都有所体现。第一，我国在加快完善现代市场体系过程中，将建立公平开放透明的市场规则，在制定负面清单基础上，实行统一的市场准入制度，反对垄断和不正当竞争。这与TPP倡导的政策目标基本一致，符合TPP投资章节和竞争政策章节的核心理念。我国目前正在与美国商谈双边投资协定，以“准入前国民待遇＋负面清单”模式为谈判基础，符合TPP规定要求。第二，TPP在技术性贸易壁垒、规则协调等多个章节中制定了旨在简化行政程序，提高行政效率，降低交易成本的规则，同时也注意保护成员国政府为促进公共政策而对经济进行合理管制的权力。我国深化改革的重要内容之一是加快转变政府职能，进一步简政放权，与此同时加强政府对市场活动的监管和宏观调控，加强各类公共服务提供，这与TPP规则的基本精神一致。第三，《中共中央关于全面深化改革若干重大问题的决定》设立专章要求加快生态文明制度建设，实行最严格的损害赔偿制度和责任追究制度，独立进行环境监管和行政执法，及时公布环境信息。TPP则要求成员国加强环境执法，不得以损害环境为代价获取贸易和投资优势，甚至明确规定环境争议属于TPP争端解决受案范围，这与《决定》精神是契合的。
　　尽管TPP的基本原则与我国改革开放方向有相通之处，这并不意味着我国应马上加入TPP。对于TPP，我国应持续紧密关注，根据国内改革进展，适时选择加入，最大限度降低为加入付出的代价。

The article from studytimes is quite appropriate. Reuter's title is pretty misleading.

 

[Jlaw]

I disagree. I believe one thing is true if you notice CPC Plennum is their ability to adapt. In fact on its very systemic functionalism , the CPC and the Chinese Congress is democratic and participatory in nature, the only difference is the mechanisms are more so socialist in functionality. The fact that they have the framework is more proof that China , specifically the CPC can modify governance modules to be more "democratic" in the western contextual understanding.

yes, Chinese leaders are very liberal. that is why if they continue this path they will be just another Song dynasty.

 

[Yizhi]

The article from studytimes is quite appropriate. Reuter's title is pretty misleading.

yes title is misleading.

学习时报
如何面对 TPP How to Face/Confront/Deal with TPP
作者：徐程锦 顾宾 来源：学习时报 字数：2228

2015年10月5日，美国等12国经贸部长发表联合声明，宣布结束《跨太平洋伙伴关系协定》（TPP）谈判。TPP谈判历时5年多，从一 开始即广受关注。TPP的影响力不仅来源于成员国巨大的经济体量，更在于其致力于打造“21世纪国际经贸规则”的战略定位。TPP规则的特点在于议题新、标准高。与我国已经加入的区域贸易协定相比，TPP不仅涉及传统贸易议题，还涉及诸多与贸易有关的新议题；不仅将货物、服务贸易开放水平提升到前所未有的新高度，还试图在具有“道德”意义的环境、劳工、国有企业等议题上取得突破。
　　TPP在国内舆论界如一石激起千层浪，各种评论层出不穷。其中有三类观点比较有代表性。一是阴谋论，认为TPP是美国孤立和遏制中国的手段，中国将被挤出亚太经贸圈。二是冲击论，认为即使中国不被孤立，对外贸易也将受到重大冲击，出口受挫。三是速入论，认为中国应当尽快加入TPP，一方面可以享受TPP规则带来的贸易便利，另一方面可以复制当年加入WTO的经验，以国际规则倒逼国内改革。如何看待这三种观点，在当前TPP详细文本尚未公布的情况下，有些问题并不容易回答。但一个基本判断不会改变，那就是，无论阴谋也好，阳谋也罢，以及中国将受到多少冲击或者在谈判中将要付出多少代价，根本上取决于中国自身的实力。
　　国际经贸关系中的国家实力来源于四个维度：深广的国内市场、活跃的对外投资、富有创新精神和竞争力的企业、良好的法治环境。过去30多年，我国主要扮演出口国和国际投资东道国角色，出口创汇和吸引外资使中国深度融入国际经贸体系。但是，中国的实力要向更高水平迈进，还需要创造深广的国内进口市场并成为活跃的全球投资者，作为全世界的买家和金主参与甚至主导国际经贸规则制定权。企业竞争力是国家竞争力的基础，只有富有创新精神和竞争实力的企业才能抵御开放带来的冲击，进而走向国际市场。良好的法治环境是经济繁荣的重要保障。法律制度透明、程序简捷、执行力强，不仅有利于吸引外国投资者，也有利于培育本国企业的创新精神和竞争力。依这四个维度衡量，美国无疑是当今世界上最具实力的国家。美国经济的规模和多样性，以及美国企业长期对外贸易投资的实践经验，为其提供了提出国际贸易新议题的丰富素材，并使其具有主导国际规则制定的实力。
　　与美国相比，我国的实力尚有差距，但正在迅速进步，迎头赶上。提升我国实力的根本途径，除了全面深化改革和扩大对外开放，别无他途。TPP的规则与我国改革开放方向相契合，在许多方面都有所体现。第一，我国在加快完善现代市场体系过程中，将建立公平开放透明的市场规则，在制定负面清单基础上，实行统一的市场准入制度，反对垄断和不正当竞争。这与TPP倡导的政策目标基本一致，符合TPP投资章节和竞争政策章节的核心理念。我国目前正在与美国商谈双边投资协定，以“准入前国民待遇＋负面清单”模式为谈判基础，符合TPP规定要求。第二，TPP在技术性贸易壁垒、规则协调等多个章节中制定了旨在简化行政程序，提高行政效率，降低交易成本的规则，同时也注意保护成员国政府为促进公共政策而对经济进行合理管制的权力。我国深化改革的重要内容之一是加快转变政府职能，进一步简政放权，与此同时加强政府对市场活动的监管和宏观调控，加强各类公共服务提供，这与TPP规则的基本精神一致。第三，《中共中央关于全面深化改革若干重大问题的决定》设立专章要求加快生态文明制度建设，实行最严格的损害赔偿制度和责任追究制度，独立进行环境监管和行政执法，及时公布环境信息。TPP则要求成员国加强环境执法，不得以损害环境为代价获取贸易和投资优势，甚至明确规定环境争议属于TPP争端解决受案范围，这与《决定》精神是契合的。
　　尽管TPP的基本原则与我国改革开放方向有相通之处，这并不意味着我国应马上加入TPP。对于TPP，我国应持续紧密关注，根据国内改革进展，适时选择加入，最大限度降低为加入付出的代价。以国有企业章节为代表的部分TPP规则还可能与我国基本经济制度产生潜在冲突，对此应加强研究，审慎应对。鉴于所有TPP成员国都有国有企业，TPP承认国有企业，且其规则义务只适用于商业类国有企业，对公益类国有企业不作要求。但是有两条值得注意：一是要求国有企业的采购和销售只能基于商业考量，换言之，不能基于政府意志；二是承认国家对国有企业的非商业援助，但要求不得损害其他成员国利益。这两方面与我国的国有企业政策可能存在冲突。《中共中央、国务院关于深化国有企业改革的指导意见》指出，国有企业是我们党和国家事业发展的重要物质基础和政治基础，并将国有企业分为商业类和公益类。无论是商业类还是公益类国企，都必须紧紧围绕服务国家战略，落实国家产业政策和重点产业布局调整总体要求，优化国有资本重点投资方向和领域。即使是商业类国企，其经营行为也不能仅依据商业考量，服务国家战略是我国国企政策的底线。另外，为使国企做强做优做大，政府不可避免要给予各类支持，很难保证不对其他市场主体造成负面影响。国有企业问题事关我国基本经济制度，尽管TPP的国有企业规则允许各国做出例外保留，对于如何协调《指导意见》与TPP相关规则的潜在冲突，仍需全面而慎重的评估。
　　孟子讲，生于忧患，死于安乐。TPP为正处于改革攻坚阶段的我国又增加了一重外部不确定因素，但这未尝不是一件好事。面对TPP，我国的基本态度应当是有信心、有定力；基本原则是坚持双边、多边、区域次区域开放合作；具体方针则应当是审慎评估，适时加入。

it's a general introduction of the TPP and how China should deal with it, nowhere close to the 'China should join' in the title.

Yes, right now none of us know what the discussion is like inside the CCP, and don’t know 100% what their decision will be in the future.

But the fact that the Central Party School has publically published an article mentioning the positive things, and that joining the TPP should be an option, that alone is a significant step for the pro-TPP side. I mean, I haven’t seen that institute’s journal publish any anti-TPP article arguing against the posibility of joining the TPP, so that means something, it may not mean anything big, but still mean something. Baby steps.

frankly ever since very begining of TPP drama this 'TPP has positives, should study if to join' voice exist, i myself read it before since maybe 2013, so not news at all.

and you only copied the pro TPP part, the 'anti' argument is just the next paragraph....i put it in red, they are very strong by CPC standard.

 

[Edison Chen]

Not sure some of you guys are professional trollers or simply having fun here. We all knew that Chinese governance system is neither communism nor dictatorship. It is one party state.

agree

 

[senheiser]

Confucian societies are inherently fertile grounds for the social constructionist theories of democracy and republicanism.

Proof is in:

1. Japan
2. South Korea
3. Taiwan
4. Singapore
5. Hong Kong

yeah after they are developed

-look at South Koreas History that country killed its own people on the streets ounce even because they protested. Only up to the 90s they became more democatric but still there is a lot of censorship and look whos president again? Parks daughter. People cry about Kim dynasty in North Korea but Park Dynasty is fine and dendy?


-Taiwan was founded by a Chinese dictator (at the time what you would classify him) so i think it had similar process.

- And Singapore to this day is still autocratic

 

[sweetgrape]

Not sure some of you guys are professional trollers or simply having fun here. We all knew that Chinese governance system is neither communism nor dictatorship. It is one party state.

yeah after they are developed

-look at South Koreas History that country killed its own people on the streets ounce even because they protested. Only up to the 90s they became more democatric but still there is a lot of censorship and look whos president again? Parks daughter. People cry about Kim dynasty in North Korea but Park Dynasty is fine and dendy?


-Taiwan was founded by a Chinese dictator (at the time what you would classify him) so i think it had similar process.

- And Singapore to this day is still autocratic

Not only these three, budy, but for him, not important, hehe. so I say they know nothing about economy, although they seems "very professional", always can't help laughing.

 

[Zsari]

China is a big country so they need to take baby steps. Joining TPP could maybe be one of those baby steps. And before this baby step, China would maybe need to take even more baby steps first, like start publically defending the good things about the TPP and argue for the possibility and option of joining it.

Baby steps bro...If you take a look at that list of confucian countries listed by Nihonjin, you can maybe picture China as a big baby getting ready to grow up to join her older democratic confucian brothers, but growing needs to be done in baby steps, just like how all of us older humans has gone through.

TPP is certainly no baby step. There are three major issues with TPP. First and fore most is the surrendering of sovereign jurisdiction to foreign entity, where investors are held legally above the nation states. Secondly, it removes capital control, where financial manipulation will wreck havoc in smaller market. Thirdly it directly targets SOE in the name of privatization. Many believe that further economic reform should be the privatization of SOE, I think that would be a grave mistake. While SOE are less efficient than private enterprise, it is however a counter to the MNC that nation state where they originates are benefitting less and less from. Between a SOE & MNC, at least from a point of a nation, SOE would be a more reliable and beneficial choice.

By Obama's word, "instead of letting China creating the rules that would benefit China", TPP is basically the US setting the rule that would benefit the US, or at the very least to retain its advantage in the near future.

 

[JaiMin]

lol, lol, you sound like some diehard CPC party members who disagreed that China would join the WTO in 2000.

lol.

lol.

LMFAO.



In fact the CPC is actually very liberal compared to the more conservative chinese society, the CPC has been trying to liberalize since the 1980s. THE PROBLEM TO PROgress have been the old guard mentality of the older generation. Let them die off in 2-3 decades time, then you will see Chinese younger generation tilt in favor of inclusiveness with Japan and the rest of the pacific member states in TPP.

Haha, bro. i think it is funny, citizens everywhere in the world are actually more liberal than government or the society. Social change usually happen when people get access to good information using engaging and participatory method, many people such as Galileo Galilei got end up badly and oppressed by the Pope or Vatican. Remember that throughout history, many countless forms and numbers of governments have created and held onto their power by controlling information and the spreading of ideas. Because of social media and improving in communication, many of these types of governments can no longer function this way any longer.One good example from India literature field:
Amitav Ghosh: ‘There is now a vibrant literary world in India – it all began with Naipaul’ | Books | The Guardian

But it is also depend on their ability to adopt u know, maybe China will become more democratic and liberal in the future but certainly not in the form of the West, maybe more like Singapore or new model that suit themselves? As Democracy, or democratic government, is "a system of government in which all the people of a state, nation or polity ... are involved in making decisions about its affairs, typically by voting to elect representatives to a parliament or similar assembly

Anyway, quite relevance article:
Asian Values RIP by Ian Buruma - Project Syndicate
BBC - Future - Will dictators disappear?

Also, you need to take note that being surrounded by a certain type of people throughout their entire lives, would play a vital role in determining their value system and how they see the world, and most importantly, how they define their role/position. And in Confucius culture, families ties are more important, right? So certainly the candidates for position in govt or party usually or often be party members or have close ties. Sure there are really outstanding talents working for the top echelon or outside party but their influence and contribution is limited for obvious reasons. I think the same can be applied for VN. But in small province, i think China is quite transparent and democratic?
Hey bro, this is quite interesting and detail PDF about govt structure, institutions, functions and recruitment in both countries, i think it is quite interesting, published in August 2010,so some aspect might be change by now. (They put the chart at the end of the PDF)

You can read it here: Vietnam Through Chinese Eyes: Divergent Accountability in Single-Party Regimes by Regina M. Abrami, Edmund J. Malesky, Yu Zheng :: SSRN

Yeah I think they are more liberal than what many people think. Lets not forget that this CCP central party school has publically published an article discussing the positive aspects of the TPP and that China should leave open the possibilty for joining the TPP in the future. This shows that they are quite open minded and not that conservative, or at least this institution is so.

That alone is telling.

Actually, China is funding RCEP to counter TPPs, as bilateral FTAs is not bring much benefits such as trade block FTAs nowaday, CCPs surely understand that and i don't think China want to join soon unlike 2013 like this info graph

But RCEP still got many obstacle to go through though, but they got more urge after TPPs negotiation finished, you can see this article @Yorozuya, quite good explain
Lộ diện đối thủ của TPP - CafeF
and
http://www.erct.com/2-ThoVan/NKTri/TPP-hay-RCEP.htm

Read some from this blog too, quite informative:
Tóm tắt Hiệp định TPP (phần 2),

www.cpv.org.vn - Lợi ích và bất lợi từ TPP