China communist party paper says China should join TPP

[mike jones]

Hi Mike,

If India can be democraticized, if Indonesia can be democraticized, if Brazil can be democraticized, then China can be democraticized. In fact China can be democraticized successfully --- the case study of Hong Kong and Taiwan and Singapore is proof.

I don't think Jinping would like to be like America. China has a big pride and that is preserving and protecting its culture. I don't know if the CCP is ready for that. I know Japan did it. Like the old wise Chinese man said "wait and see"

 

[Aepsilons]

No way its gonna happen and it doesn't make any sense. To join TPP you have to negotiate with All 12 TPP members one by one, and of course it will be more time-consuming and tougher than only a deal with USA. And BIT is only part of FTA, only addressing on the open market issues. Though it is the most important part of FTA, it is still not all.

lol, lol, you sound like some diehard CPC party members who disagreed that China would join the WTO in 2000.

lol.

lol.

LMFAO.

I don't think Jinping would like to be like America. China has a big pride and that is preserving and protecting its culture. I don't know if the CCP is ready for that. I know Japan did it. Like the old wise Chinese man said "wait and see"

In fact the CPC is actually very liberal compared to the more conservative chinese society, the CPC has been trying to liberalize since the 1980s. THE PROBLEM TO PROgress have been the old guard mentality of the older generation. Let them die off in 2-3 decades time, then you will see Chinese younger generation tilt in favor of inclusiveness with Japan and the rest of the pacific member states in TPP.

 

[mike jones]

I disagree. I believe one thing is true if you notice CPC Plennum is their ability to adapt. In fact on its very systemic functionalism , the CPC and the Chinese Congress is democratic and participatory in nature, the only difference is the mechanisms are more so socialist in functionality. The fact that they have the framework is more proof that China , specifically the CPC can modify governance modules to be more "democratic" in the western contextual understanding.

Until the voting system is in place in China like the west (USA and Canada) then I would say China is ready for a democratic system. Until then, I doubt it. China still wants to take over the world.

 

[70U63]

I still don't understand, for some people who have already see the world and interested in geopolitic, they still think democratic is the best system for everyone. Unless you mean we just create a two party system and control everything behind the scene. There are so many failed democratic countries around the world. You can always say they will keep improving, but i will say some country will find a way of governance best suit their own nation.

 

[William Hung]

lol, lol, you sound like some diehard CPC party members who disagreed that China would join the WTO in 2000.

lol.

lol.

LMFAO.



In fact the CPC is actually very liberal compared to the more conservative chinese society, the CPC has been trying to liberalize since the 1980s. THE PROBLEM TO PROgress have been the old guard mentality of the older generation. Let them die off in 2-3 decades time, then you will see Chinese younger generation tilt in favor of inclusiveness with Japan and the rest of the pacific member states in TPP.

Yeah I think they are more liberal than what many people think. Lets not forget that this CCP central party school has publically published an article discussing the positive aspects of the TPP and that China should leave open the possibilty for joining the TPP in the future. This shows that they are quite open minded and not that conservative, or at least this institution is so.

That alone is telling.

 

[Aepsilons]

I still don't understand, for some people who have already see the world and interested in geopolitic, they still think democratic is the best system for everyone. Unless you mean we just create a two party system and control everything behind the scene. There are so many failed democratic countries around the world. You can always say they will keep improving, but i will say some country will find a way of governance best suit their own nation.

Democratic is the best. Pray tell me you prefer theocratic absolutism say in Wahabist Saudi Arabia? Or the do you prefer military junta-ism of North Korea? LOL.

All the great successful economies and progressive societies are liberal democracies:

1. The United States
2. Canada
3. Australia
4. New Zealand
5. Japan
6. South Korea
7. Germany
8. France
9. United Kingdom
10. Belgium
11. Sweden
12. Netherlands
13. Norway
14. Denmark
15. Luxembourg
16. Israel
17. Singapore
18. Taiwan

et al.

 

[William Hung]

Until the voting system is in place in China like the west (USA and Canada) then I would say China is ready for a democratic system. Until then, I doubt it. China still wants to take over the world.

China is a big country so they need to take baby steps. Joining TPP could maybe be one of those baby steps. And before this baby step, China would maybe need to take even more baby steps first, like start publically defending the good things about the TPP and argue for the possibility and option of joining it.

Baby steps bro...If you take a look at that list of confucian countries listed by Nihonjin, you can maybe picture China as a big baby getting ready to grow up to join her older democratic confucian brothers, but growing needs to be done in baby steps, just like how all of us older humans has gone through.

 

[mike jones]

Yeah I think they are more liberal than what many people think. Lets not forget that this CCP central party school has publically published an article discussing the positive aspects of the TPP and that China should leave open the possibilty for joining the TPP in the future. This shows that they are quite open minded and not that conservative, or at least this institution is so.

That alone is telling.

We all know they seek power.

 

[Aepsilons]

Yeah I think they are more liberal than what many people think. Lets not forget that this CCP central party school has publically published an article discussing the positive aspects of the TPP and that China should leave open the possibilty for joining the TPP in the future. This shows that they are quite open minded and not that conservative, or at least this institution is so.

That alone is telling.

The President of China, Xi Jinping, sent his only daughter to attend Harvard University, the cream of the liberal ivy league. That is the future of the CPC ideation, my friend. China will be a Liberal Democracy.

 

[mike jones]

Democratic is the best. Pray tell me you prefer theocratic absolutism say in Wahabist Saudi Arabia? Or the do you prefer military junta-ism of North Korea? LOL.

All the great successful economies and progressive societies are liberal democracies:

1. The United States
2. Canada
3. Australia
4. New Zealand
5. Japan
6. South Korea
7. Germany
8. France
9. United Kingdom
10. Belgium
11. Sweden
12. Netherlands
13. Norway
14. Denmark
15. Luxembourg
16. Israel
17. Singapore
18. Taiwan

et al.

Democracy allows people to think outside the box and that's what you don't get when you're a communist country or dictatorship. Communist and dictatorship controls people's behavior such that they don't become so unpredictable. But here in USA and Canada, they promote that. They want people to think outside the box that's why we got things like Windows, Apple, Google, Etc. When we look at China, it's not the same.

 

[Aepsilons]

Baby steps bro...If you take a look at that list of confucian countries listed by Nihonjin, you can maybe picture China as a big baby getting ready to grow up to join her older democratic brothers, but growing needs to be done with baby steps, just like all of us older humans has gone through.

Historically speaking China was democratic even before it was socialist or bolshevik-turned Maoist. In fact the creation of the 1st Chinese Republic under the urge of Dr. Sun Yat Sen created the first Republic in Asia. It was just the environment at the time was not conducive for nurturing China's infantile democratic experiment. CPC came to power because of war, something that Japanw as guilty of. So China investing time and energy to become a democracy wont be a 'new thing' rather, a return to its earlier Republican roots. Remember China was a democratic Republic in the same functionalist making as that of the United States before it ever was communist or socialist. It only became communist out of necessity because of the inherent problems of the time, that and the existential threat of Japanese Imperialistic military adventurism.

China turned to communism out of necessity, not by primary choice. Originally she preferred democracy. It was just that the time and environment that she was in was not conducive for democracy to flourish, yet.

 

[Yizhi]

I can not read Chinese, please use English so I can understand.



Thank you. So its like what the Reuter article said, there is a warning that there can be negative things about the TPP, but also there is also many positive things. So he is suggesting that China should be broad minded, and if it is good in the future, China should join the TPP.

Why does your countrymen get so upset about that?

urh of course for everything there will be both negatives and positives, the point is how to do the math.

it's a huge IF in his comment, if you can read Chinese you'll know. i said it earlier if it's only about economy and trade, TPP with it shining 'free trade' slogan sounds OK (to the ones really buy into it). but it's NOT just about trade, isn't it? the creation of TPP itself is deeply intertwined with geopolitics and strategical thinking, which is ultimately about politics and so far no evidence the gain will outweigh the loss.

that comment is probably part of the internal policy debate, but if that's the best argument the pro TPP side can offer, i don't think China will join TPP any time soon, just like he says:

尽管TPP的基本原则与我国改革开放方向有相通之处，这并不意味着我国应马上加入TPP

"although some basic TPP principle share similarity with our reforms, that does not mean China should join TPP immediately"

now Xi has 8 more years to go, so when one in CPC saying 'not immediately' it probably means a LOT longer than you think.

 

[mike jones]

Historically speaking China was democratic even before it was socialist or bolshevik-turned Maoist. In fact the creation of the 1st Chinese Republic under the urge of Dr. Sun Yat Sen created the first Republic in Asia. It was just the environment at the time was not conducive for nurturing China's infantile democratic experiment. CPC came to power because of war, something that Japanw as guilty of. So China investing time and energy to become a democracy wont be a 'new thing' rather, a return to its earlier Republican roots. Remember China was a democratic Republic in the same functionalist making as that of the United States before it ever was communist or socialist. It only became communist out of necessity because of the inherent problems of the time, that and the existential threat of Japanese Imperialistic military adventurism.

China turned to communism out of necessity, not by primary choice. Originally she preferred democracy. It was just that the time and environment that she was in was not conducive for democracy to flourish, yet.

I agree. It seems like China is confused about herself. She doesn't know which direction to take yet.
We all know knowledge is power and imagination is beyond both. We know that Democracy allows for imagination and freedom of speech, human rights and freedom, copyright protection, etc. We know China wants power, therefore, it has to scrap Communism and adopt Democracy for her to become powerful.

 

[Pangu]

I agree. It seems like China is confused about herself. She doesn't know which direction to take yet.
We all know knowledge is power and imagination is beyond both. We know that Democracy allows for imagination and freedom of speech, human rights and freedom, copyright protection, etc. We know China wants power, therefore, it has to scrap Communism and adopt Democracy for her to become powerful.

There is no confusion, otherwise we would not have achieved what we've gotton thus far. Whether TPP or not ultimately has to align with our interest of course, no use joining a merry bunch without concrete advantages to what we had already planned for the next few decades or so. All this talk of -ism are just a means to an end, nothing more.

 

[William Hung]

that comment is probably part of the internal policy debate, but if that's the best argument the pro TPP side can offer, i don't think China will join TPP any time soon, just like he says:

"although some basic TPP principle share similarity with our reforms, that does not mean China should join TPP immediately"

now Xi has 8 more years to go, so when one in CPC saying 'not immediately' it probably means a LOT longer than you think.

Yes, right now none of us know what the discussion is like inside the CCP, and don’t know 100% what their decision will be in the future.

But the fact that the Central Party School has publically published an article mentioning the positive things, and that joining the TPP should be an option, that alone is a significant step for the pro-TPP side. I mean, I haven’t seen that institute’s journal publish any anti-TPP article arguing against the posibility of joining the TPP, so that means something, it may not mean anything big, but still mean something. Baby steps.