China Civil Aviation, AVIC (MA600) & COMAC (ARJ21/C919/C929)

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

Ususually the west/american subsystem contractors can only obtain a export liscence to China on the condition of 'non-military use', if COMAC turn out to be military aircraft supplier, that will make such liscence alot harder to obtain.

Like I said before, the whole purpose of COMAC is to having a pure civil aircraft producer to make China access to international civil aircraft market, including obtain necessary airworthness certificate from FAA and the like easier, otherwise we have already have AVIC.

So just forget about puting COMAC's aircraft for military usage, it is not possible and meaningful to do so in the forseeable future, China military dont lack platform for any of the mission C919 can do, and dont lack research team to design platform just as capable, if not more, than C919 for specific military purpose.

atually im just curious about the negotiations going on for US certfication by Comac for the C919. i bet there must be some behind the scenes lobbying by Boeing to undermine that process. Like what the Airbus CEO said- there's not enough room for half a dozen civilian aircraft manufacturers in the world.

 

[Deino]

Pardon if this is a silly question... but WHY can't Y-20 be plotted for this task instead of teasing around the commercial C919 ???

IMO this very nice CG is at least for now nothing more than a nice fan-art. I'm sure at first the next generation AEW-bird will be based on the Y-20 and only then later when the C919 is established there will be military versions.

However even then at first I expect a VIP-transporter replacing the current A.319 and B737s ...

Imagine a C919 in these colours ?!

And even then later maybe as a medium-sized AEW, EW (replacing the Tu-154MD) or ASW-bird.

 

[JSCh]

I think it is possible to modify C919 for military use.

Since COMAC design the aircraft, then COMAC has the design and specification for the parts.

Just source the parts from local or non-western bidder. Unless they are unable to produce parts in line with spec. Biggest hurdle is obviously the engine.

I know it is probably more complicated that this, since integrating many new parts that are not identical to existing one would not be easy. And it is possible that it would not even worth the effort to try.

 

[clibra]

View attachment 394889 View attachment 394890 View attachment 394891 View attachment 394892 View attachment 394893 View attachment 394894 View attachment 394895 View attachment 394896

excellent photo.
I believe the drag coefficient of C919 is smaller than A320 & B737, the curve of the C919 nose is so smooth and beautiful.

Yeah bro probably Just like Turkish and Australian AWACS with rotodome or maybe plate antenna

E919 can use the same AESA radar on KJ-500, without rotation.

 

[Shotgunner51]

C919 have many subsystems from the foreign supplier, not just for technique reasons, but for accquiring FAA liscences to enter oversea market etc.

Yes, using matured subsystems can help obtaining FAA licenses which is essential for C919 to fly international. As a matter of fact, globalized supply chain is a general practice, chart below is only part of the supplier list (fuselage, wings, landing gears, engine) of B787:

And extensive usage of special alloy, battery, IFE, carbon fiber from foreign suppliers:

Complete list of foreign suppliers is even much longger than this. Like its counterparts, COMAC is a systems integrator, aviation industry has a huge supply chain. As C919 volume climbs I expect to see more and more Chinese firms in the upstream go for FAA compliance, supplying their components to COMAC.

 

[clibra]

It's time to think the flight refueling version, P-8 version and AWAC version of C919.

C919 is kinda small to be a tanker，C929 will be ok for that.

 

[razgriz19]

atually im just curious about the negotiations going on for US certfication by Comac for the C919. i bet there must be some behind the scenes lobbying by Boeing to undermine that process. Like what the Airbus CEO said- there's not enough room for half a dozen civilian aircraft manufacturers in the world.

That's the nature of the bussiness. When the demand is high (like right now) manufacturers will survive, but as soon as tge demand plunges, you will see them struggling or even becone defunct

 

[WarFariX]

C919 will be a very strong competitor to A320 & B737. I think Pakistan must place order for C919 for short to medium haul flights with some TOT.

Its not easy...Its hell of a money eating step , you need local overhauling capacity specific to C-919 , You need workforce training , place , plus having an airliner from more companies will create complexities in maintaining and thus having a bad end.. C-919 needs to prove itself safe for a decade then only it can recieve big orders...

 

[waja2000]

Pardon if this is a silly question... but WHY can't Y-20 be plotted for this task instead of teasing around the commercial C919 ???

It because
1) commercial aircraft wings and Engine located below body of plane means less block to radar surveillance area, typically military plane like c130/Y9/Y20 block radar surveillance about 25-27%, but commercial aircraft just about 14-16%.
2) commercial aircraft much more quiet less vibration than military plane means more advantage for command/communication and discussion between jet figther & AEW&C , also less damage to equipment.
3) comfortable and than military plane. with lavatory and galley/storage provide long endurance flight requirement.
4) commercial aircraft provide long range.
5) Y20 a bit waste resources. but China no choice due to no medium class commercial plane like B767/A330 class.

 

[samsara]

Thanks waja2000 for taking time to explain... though I don't agree that Y-20 is "a bit waste resources", each has its own development path, which is clearly different, military vs commercial uses, just allow some time to see the Y-20 ramification into other functions in future.

Another video of COMAC C919 conducted the maiden flight on 2017-05-05, done by aviation fan... see the crowd of fans there

 

[grey boy 2]

Desktop background quality picture of C919 1st flight

 

[TaiShang]

Baosteel switches gears, lands big deal from COMAC
By MENG FANBIN in Beijing and WU YIYAO in Shanghai | China Daily | Updated: 2017-05-10


On Friday, when COMAC's C919, China's first homebuilt passenger plane, took off from, and then landed safely at, Shanghai Pudong International Airport, it not only completed its first test flight successfully but marked a major milestone for the Shanghai-based Baosteel Special Steel Co Ltd.

For, the C919 used landing gear made by Baosteel Special Steel, also known as Baosteel, which is now the first Chinese supplier of such hardware for passenger jets.

"It is the first time that the 300M steel researched and produced by the company is used in the production of landing gear in China and it shows we have made a breakthrough in this sector," said Zhao Suwu, a senior engineer from Baosteel Special Steel.​

"Baosteel Special Steel's landing gear improves greatly China's steel and high-end special steel metallurgy expertise, which has been recognized globally," said Yang Zhiyong, director of the Special Steel Institute,which is part of the Iron and Steel Research Institute.​

It also marks the first global foray of Chinese makers of high-end special steel and high-end aviation parts, Yang said.

Landing gear, being the largest and heaviest steel part of an aircraft, is critical as the whole weight of a plane rests on it and it should be able to withstand strong impact during landing.

Special steel that is used to make landing gear is difficult to produce. Standards are exacting to ensure the hardware's stability, impact resistance and fatigue resistance, Zhao said.

The amount of homemade alloy used in the C919 is not much because Chinese special steel and alloy makers' research, quality control and cost control processes are not as mature as foreign competitors', according to a report in China Metallurgical News.

"Steel accounts for only about 10 percent of the whole weight of the jet, so as to reduce weight and save energy. Most of the materials in the plane are alloys and nonmetals," said Yang.​

Baosteel Special Steel and Fushun Special Steel Shares Co Ltd, in Liaoning province, are the only two certified domestic steel suppliers for jumbo aircraft, compared with four foreign players, including India's Tata Group and US major Carpenter Technology Corp.

However, COMAC's decision to use Baosteel Special Steel's landing gear is bound to help develop China's aviation steel segment.

After 60 trials for industrial-scale production, the company has developed a homegrown process spanning the whole chain for special steel manufacturing technology for the C919, said Zhao. The research and development process lasted more than seven years, she said.

Over the years, China's steel makers had been blocked from becoming qualified suppliers to aircraft makers and hence have been eager for their big break in the aviation steel segment.

HBIS Group Co Ltd provides high-end steel materials for the die forging machine that makes the C919 landing gear. COMAC's component platform uses modular design,which means each supplier can be replaced.

The China Metallurgical News report quoted a COMAC expert: "It's only a matter of time before China's domestic materials replace the imported ones, given the improvement in the quality of Chinese suppliers' products and their cost control."​

Zhang Yu contributed to this story.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Baosteel switches gears, lands big deal from COMAC
By MENG FANBIN in Beijing and WU YIYAO in Shanghai | China Daily | Updated: 2017-05-10


On Friday, when COMAC's C919, China's first homebuilt passenger plane, took off from, and then landed safely at, Shanghai Pudong International Airport, it not only completed its first test flight successfully but marked a major milestone for the Shanghai-based Baosteel Special Steel Co Ltd.

For, the C919 used landing gear made by Baosteel Special Steel, also known as Baosteel, which is now the first Chinese supplier of such hardware for passenger jets.

"It is the first time that the 300M steel researched and produced by the company is used in the production of landing gear in China and it shows we have made a breakthrough in this sector," said Zhao Suwu, a senior engineer from Baosteel Special Steel.

"Baosteel Special Steel's landing gear improves greatly China's steel and high-end special steel metallurgy expertise, which has been recognized globally," said Yang Zhiyong, director of the Special Steel Institute,which is part of the Iron and Steel Research Institute.

It also marks the first global foray of Chinese makers of high-end special steel and high-end aviation parts, Yang said.

Landing gear, being the largest and heaviest steel part of an aircraft, is critical as the whole weight of a plane rests on it and it should be able to withstand strong impact during landing.

Special steel that is used to make landing gear is difficult to produce. Standards are exacting to ensure the hardware's stability, impact resistance and fatigue resistance, Zhao said.

The amount of homemade alloy used in the C919 is not much because Chinese special steel and alloy makers' research, quality control and cost control processes are not as mature as foreign competitors', according to a report in China Metallurgical News.

"Steel accounts for only about 10 percent of the whole weight of the jet, so as to reduce weight and save energy. Most of the materials in the plane are alloys and nonmetals," said Yang.

Baosteel Special Steel and Fushun Special Steel Shares Co Ltd, in Liaoning province, are the only two certified domestic steel suppliers for jumbo aircraft, compared with four foreign players, including India's Tata Group and US major Carpenter Technology Corp.

However, COMAC's decision to use Baosteel Special Steel's landing gear is bound to help develop China's aviation steel segment.

After 60 trials for industrial-scale production, the company has developed a homegrown process spanning the whole chain for special steel manufacturing technology for the C919, said Zhao. The research and development process lasted more than seven years, she said.

Over the years, China's steel makers had been blocked from becoming qualified suppliers to aircraft makers and hence have been eager for their big break in the aviation steel segment.

HBIS Group Co Ltd provides high-end steel materials for the die forging machine that makes the C919 landing gear. COMAC's component platform uses modular design,which means each supplier can be replaced.

The China Metallurgical News report quoted a COMAC expert: "It's only a matter of time before China's domestic materials replace the imported ones, given the improvement in the quality of Chinese suppliers' products and their cost control."

Zhang Yu contributed to this story.

Good news, good job Baosteel SS! Like mentioned above in #557, as C919 sales volume climbs it will pull more Chinese component (and advanced materials) firms into COMAC's supply chain.
http://www.baosteel-specialsteel.com/

 

[帅的一匹]

C919 is kinda small to be a tanker，C929 will be ok for that.

Its a perfect platform for ASW operation, or AWACS.

 

[Deino]

Preparing the future ...

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-...m=email&elq2=de38cfcce294438b9980911610ab167a

Comac Foresees A Future Of ‘Intelligent Aircraft’
May 12, 2017 Bradley Perrett | Aviation Daily

SHANGHAI—Comac is looking at supersonic speed and unconventional configurations among the technologies for aircraft to follow the widebody airliner it will develop with UAC. The two companies may register a joint company for the widebody aircraft program this month, Comac Vice President Shi Jianzhong said, referring to the event that would mark the launch of full-scale development. He spoke at a civil aviation conference in Shanghai organized by Galleon. For the future, Comac is ...