China Civil Aviation, AVIC (MA600) & COMAC (ARJ21/C919/C929)

[jhungary]

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WS-20 will be ready this year and install on Y-20 for full testing. Subsequently, it will be able to use on C919 military version. C919 will only debut and ready in 2017, So still got 2 more years to go for refining this engine.

how much thrust is on those WS20?

 

[gslv mk3]

best of luck !!!

 

[razgriz19]

Can you explain that further? Electronics are slow? Airplane is flimsy?

With more than 1000 aircraft built, you need to provide concrete evidence to support your notion that the plane is flimsy.

My friends work on it. And I work in that same hangar as well sometimes.
Is that enough credibility?
btw I'm talking about Air Canada.

 

[Beast]

how much thrust is on those WS20?

Estimate max thrust at 14000-15000kg.

 

[Deino]

I have a question, resulting from the same post in a German Forum. Several guys there - some including Airbus members - were surprised or even astonished that this prototype is currently nearly still completely empty !!

Even although it is certainly is "only" a prototype, but when the A320 fuselages were mated to the wings - and also at the production line in Tanjin - the hull is already significantly more equipped.


Their argument or question is therefore above all, why is so much missing and especially any form of wiring? The bird appears to be completely empty. And derived from this observation, why did they went so much a different way to assemble the prototype of the C919 especially if they have all the knowledge of the sequence of the A320?

In mind of these remarks they all expect some severe delays ....

Thanks in advance,
Deino

 

[帅的一匹]

It can, but you need to replace the CFM turbofan engine on C919 first, maybe to a Chinese own turbofan

I think CFM deal forbit China to turn the C919 into military use

Don't worry, CPC always able to give big surprise in th past.

 

[Donatello]

My friends work on it. And I work in that same hangar as well sometimes.
Is that enough credibility?
btw I'm talking about Air Canada.

Bhai, you are telling me what you do. I understand that and got that the first time. What i am asking is, can you explain why and what problems they have? All planes have some design issue or maintenance problem here and there. Does the ERJ jets have a higher than normal share of problems?

 

[razgriz19]

Bhai, you are telling me what you do. I understand that and got that the first time. What i am asking is, can you explain why and what problems they have? All planes have some design issue or maintenance problem here and there. Does the ERJ jets have a higher than normal share of problems?

it does break down more often than other aircraft. Routine maintenance is fine, but there is always something that stops working and pilots later complain about them. And about the avionics on board, it is pretty advance, however if you want to upgrade some software it takes a century. Many of those systems are by Honeywell and they still have windows 95 installed in them! (according to my friend)

 

[Donatello]

it does break down more often than other aircraft. Routine maintenance is fine, but there is always something that stops working and pilots later complain about them. And about the avionics on board, it is pretty advance, however if you want to upgrade some software it takes a century. Many of those systems are by Honeywell and they still have windows 95 installed in them! (according to my friend)

Hi,

You do realize that you cannot update electronics and software on an airplane just when a new operating system comes out? This is not a cheap 700$ iphone where you can offer a new OS and software, only to release the bug fixes over the air. Pilots don't have that luxury, software is made with respect to the hardware chosen. Each software has to be tested very thoroughly.
So if for example, B777 was designed in 1980s, then a B777 that rolls off the production line today (34 years later) will have the exact same electronics and software that those that were built in 1995. You cannot simply update the software just because a new technology came out.
Only vital bug fixes such as autopilot etc are offered and released to all fleets around the world.

So if the ERJ170 series was conceived and designed in 1990s, then it is safe to assume that the electronics and software would be from that time as well.

Same with the BLK52 F-16s.....i mean, your smartphone today has more processing power than the computer on board the BLK52 because BLK52 versions were designed in 1990s......... (Intel Core i5 is magnitudes of times better than the 1990s Pentium series)

So you can compare Aircraft to another aircraft of the same era.....B777vs A330/A340 and B787 vs A350...........you cannot compare the computer technology in those aircraft with what proprietary systems you use.

If you have access to the flight deck of the ERJ......go and have look when the screens are switched on......not very HD type screens, limited colors, limited graphics....because flashy graphics is not what is needed....but rather raw data and display.

 

[razgriz19]

Hi,

You do realize that you cannot update electronics and software on an airplane just when a new operating system comes out? This is not a cheap 700$ iphone where you can offer a new OS and software, only to release the bug fixes over the air. Pilots don't have that luxury, software is made with respect to the hardware chosen. Each software has to be tested very thoroughly.
So if for example, B777 was designed in 1980s, then a B777 that rolls off the production line today (34 years later) will have the exact same electronics and software that those that were built in 1995. You cannot simply update the software just because a new technology came out.
Only vital bug fixes such as autopilot etc are offered and released to all fleets around the world.

So if the ERJ170 series was conceived and designed in 1990s, then it is safe to assume that the electronics and software would be from that time as well.

Same with the BLK52 F-16s.....i mean, your smartphone today has more processing power than the computer on board the BLK52 because BLK52 versions were designed in 1990s......... (Intel Core i5 is magnitudes of times better than the 1990s Pentium series)

So you can compare Aircraft to another aircraft of the same era.....B777vs A330/A340 and B787 vs A350...........you cannot compare the computer technology in those aircraft with what proprietary systems you use.

If you have access to the flight deck of the ERJ......go and have look when the screens are switched on......not very HD type screens, limited colors, limited graphics....because flashy graphics is not what is needed....but rather raw data and display.

Ahhh actually they did upgrade them, but half the airplanes wouldn't accept the upgrade because they're piece of crap!
The guy from Honeywell spent days trying to fix the problem. Uploading would stop at 98% and go back to beginning. Anyway, You won't understand unless you have to work with these machines. They are slow and they break down all the time, I have two friends working on this aircraft, one is Avionics and the other one is maintenance.

 

[Donatello]

Ahhh actually they did upgrade them, but half the airplanes wouldn't accept the upgrade because they're piece of crap!
The guy from Honeywell spent days trying to fix the problem. Uploading would stop at 98% and go back to beginning. Anyway, You won't understand unless you have to work with these machines. They are slow and they break down all the time, I have two friends working on this aircraft, one is Avionics and the other one is maintenance.

I understand what you are saying.....and while i am not an avionics expert, i am an EE engineer so i understand the concepts and working principles of these systems very well and am willing to have a look and learn myself. I have accessed the electronics bay of a 777.....and that's not pretty either. When i found out they were still using 1980s RISC cpus i was as surprised as your are....but like i said...these systems are complex.....it is not easy upgrading them every year. Electronics become obsolete within months....there is no way you can keep updating the hardware/software for entire fleets (starts to cut into your profits).......If you were to meet a maintenance guy working on Airbus or Boeing jets....they'll have their share of long lists of problems.

But the fact is, if an aircraft has been deployed in large numbers like the ERJ family, then it means their benefits out weigh the cons.......and smaller, regional airlines will find them good enough who don't have the money or demand for bigger regional jets like A320/737

 

[damiendehorn]

Ideal regional airliners for Bangladeshi airlines.

 

[razgriz19]

I understand what you are saying.....and while i am not an avionics expert, i am an EE engineer so i understand the concepts and working principles of these systems very well and am willing to have a look and learn myself. I have accessed the electronics bay of a 777.....and that's not pretty either. When i found out they were still using 1980s RISC cpus i was as surprised as your are....but like i said...these systems are complex.....it is not easy upgrading them every year. Electronics become obsolete within months....there is no way you can keep updating the hardware/software for entire fleets (starts to cut into your profits).......If you were to meet a maintenance guy working on Airbus or Boeing jets....they'll have their share of long lists of problems.

But the fact is, if an aircraft has been deployed in large numbers like the ERJ family, then it means their benefits out weigh the cons.......and smaller, regional airlines will find them good enough who don't have the money or demand for bigger regional jets like A320/737

I guess you're right. Every aircraft has its own problems, but i would still shy away from Embraers.

 

[Donatello]

I guess you're right. Every aircraft has its own problems, but i would still shy away from Embraers.

Yea, but airlines don't have much choice in the 100(+- 20) passengers capacity airplanes. The duopoly of Airbus and Boeing doesn't play in that market, so you've got smaller firms like Embraer, Bombardier, ATR, etc. So they have to use these planes.

 

[Gufi]

what about orders for the plane?