China beats India in every way, finds report

[Max]

You don't need report to understand this fact.

 

[rambro]

You don't need report to understand this fact.

Cant agree more

 

[chengdusudise]

Trade doesn't consider PPP since it happens in dollars. But what you count is CAD or CAS. Basically Export - Import.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...c-this-fiscal-report/articleshow/63366451.cms
India's current account deficit is expected to be around 1.7 per cent of GDP in this financial year, largely owing to higher oil prices, says a report.

PPP is not fake simply because people live through it every day of their lives. A dozen eggs is cheaper in China than in the US.

Huh? All I see is CPC'ers run away when they attempt any semi-serious discussion on it:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/india-and-china-a-gdp-comparison.455611/page-4#post-8812159

Read that whole thread if you want. I don't get what you mean by "Indian PPP"....are you implying the ICP matrix is controlled/set by India?... because that is a very easy bubble to pop.

If a country is more export-growth + forex + USD liquidity oriented, of course its nominal/PPP realisation will be higher. Thats why there is barely any difference between the two for the highest trade+investment (esp in USD terms)/capita countries. That is not anything to do regarding a joke....PPP is the measure used by human development index for a very important reason (it is actual physical realised consumption on one standardised reference).



Huh? That's not what I was saying at all. In PPP terms, India has accomplished an average of 8.5% per annum for last 5 years.

More or less its same rate that China was growing at same point in development.

From 2002 - 2007, China grew from 4.5 to 9 trillion USD in PPP terms.

From 2008 to 2016, India grew from around 4.3 to 8.7 trillion USD.

Ok 3 years more....but this matters massively in the argument given the timeframes of century of humiliation and colonization etc for these two civilisations?



The average household buys a rafale? LOL. Another clueless CPC'er.

Have you taken even one look at the ICP matrix? Do you even know what that is?



LOL. So how much percentage are imports of Indian GDP even in current terms? Actually tell me what the net current account is of GDP first.

Import everyyyttthingggg. lol...waste of time discussing. Tell me when the smart ones like @Genesis and @GS Zhou arrive to talk.

Sir, you should Know：Fake money means that you can play it with youself happily but no one accept it.
PPP fits very well in this definition.
No one cares how many indian eggs you indian can buy!France only care how many french eggs you can buy,russia only care how many russian eggs you can buy。 you indian eggs means nonsense for international
community。 that means you can play PPP with youself happily but no one accept it.
so PPP is fake money,you can talk PPP in your indian forum and feel good,but should not bring it to chinese forum coz we do not care how many indian eggs you can buy,it has nothing to do with us .
by the way ,no one accept even your GDP rupee let alone your PPP rupee.we only accept dollar/pound/Euro，to some extent ,RMB.so please be realistic

 

[Nilgiri]

Sir, you should Know：Fake money means that you can play it with youself happily but no one accept it.
PPP fits very well in this definition.
No one cares how many indian eggs you indian can buy!France only care how many french eggs you can buy,russia only care how many russian eggs you can buy。 you indian eggs means nosense for international
community。 that means you can play PPP with youself happily but no one accept it.
so PPP is fake money,you can talk PPP in your indian forum and feel good,but should not bring it to chinese forum coz we do not accept it.

Blah blah blah, can't talk any sense....I am supposed to honour any of this BS about "fake money" and "french eggs vs russian eggs" from a random economics illiterate on some internet forum?....or an actual researched and published and vetted organisation?:

https://www.worldbank.org/en/programs/icp#6

Point me to where there is a major problem in the methodology?

If you cannot actually provide any argument, best to try inform yourself first before blabbing:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...omic-boom-in-2017.540184/page-2#post-10537257

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/india-and-china-a-gdp-comparison.455611/page-4#post-8811612

It's always hillarious when you CPC folk base your argument on nominal which is tied to US federal reserve basket + liquidity exposure, which is the same one you attack when its convenient some other way (say Chinese govt debt ramp). You simply choose the convenient groupthink/feelz narrative and pick which data supports it....rather than have consistent data/argument and form the narrative from that....because the latter needs good understanding, not mere parroting copy+paste ability.

@AUSTERLITZ @randomradio

Actually let us ask @vostok

Would you say Russian economy halved now from 2013? Which makes more sense from what you have seen living in Russia?:

@Vergennes @Gomig-21 @Hamartia Antidote @Desert Fox @Major Sam

 

[chengdusudise]

fake money is fake money no one accept it, sir, truth may be hurt you but still is truth
tell russia/Franc/American/S.korea/Irarel/British you will use your PPP rupee to buy their weapon, if they accept, then you PPP money is true money. tell any your trade partner that you will pay them PPP rupee, if they accept, your PPP money is true money。
THE only application of PPP is console yourself, that is also the goal of western invent the PPP for developing country

 

[Nilgiri]

fake money is fake money no one accept it, sir, truth may be hurt you but still is truth
tell russia/Franc/American/S.korea/Irarel/British you will use your PPP rupee to buy their weapon, if they accept, then you PPP money is true money

Sorry not interested in copy paste war with CPC guy who has clearly not read and understood a single thing on the issue. I again refer you to the Russian example of why nominal is flawed.

You tell me, Russian economy is now HALF of what it was in 2013...or simply about the same? Very simple question.

As for buying, that is what our forex reserves are for....and the current account deficit is what 2% of GDP for India? Including military imports (which is a small part of total imports). But here you are claiming 2% matters infinitely higher than the 98%? CPC feel-stronk logic I guess. Please explain it to the UN Human development Index too....they give a good description of WHY they use PPP and not nominal.....look it up yourself.

We are talking about actual level of consumption when a country does not forcibly inflate USD liquidity in its forex in essence to create a jobs subsidy.

You understand how bad it is to apply a US federal reserve (basket + price level) standard automatically to each and every country regardless of liquidity exposure to that federal reserve?

Tell me, say we come across a super advanced alien civilisation that has entirely 0 USD in its system and 0 trade with any country on earth because it sees no reason to do so.....it should be counted as having 0 production and thus poorer than Somalia? Or should we try count/compare by a better method? PPP is simply an argument that scales this same phenomenon so countries do not have to be penalised for varying liquidity exposure of trade and investment in USD. If you are too ignorant to understand that, not my problem.

 

[randomradio]

The problem is they don't even know it...


You really think population is a thing... Your illiterate population is just a burden... BTW, your economic growth is nothing, when our GDP per capita was at your level, our growth rate is 12% or so... You are struggling to achieve 7% which is even slower than our growth number... despite your less than Sub-Sahara Africa per capita GDP... And if not for Modi's Vedic math, your real growth number is 3%..


Sorry, the credibility of words from a indian mouth is zero...
View attachment 478082
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.IMP.GNFS.ZS?end=2016&locations=IN&start=1960

Good. Now what about our exports. Calculate that also.

Compare Delhi with Beijing... Lol... Your capital Delhi can not even compare to our poorest village...
If you compare your price in the slums, your PPP will be even higher...

BTW, the site you provided, like always, is full of B.S...

You must be too stupid to recognise economic activity even if the region concerned is poor.

In India, we do not discriminate. We open our cities to even the poorest of people, unlike China.

Holy... how do these people live like this??? Just watching that nearly drove me crazy.

Their quality of life and access to services is superior to the Chinese rural areas even today.

Really can't imagine this is from in a country's capital... I won't want to live in such a shithole even they give me a million dollars...

And for those delusional indians, this is their so-called "demographic dividend"...Lol...

Demographic dividend is real. That's what made China prosperous.

Don't blame us for the CCP's inability to manage its flock of sheep.

Sir, you should Know：Fake money means that you can play it with youself happily but no one accept it.
PPP fits very well in this definition.
No one cares how many indian eggs you indian can buy!France only care how many french eggs you can buy,russia only care how many russian eggs you can buy。 you indian eggs means nonsense for international
community。 that means you can play PPP with youself happily but no one accept it.
so PPP is fake money,you can talk PPP in your indian forum and feel good,but should not bring it to chinese forum coz we do not care how many indian eggs you can buy,it has nothing to do with us .
by the way ,no one accept even your GDP rupee let alone your PPP rupee.we only accept dollar/pound/Euro，to some extent ,RMB.so please be realistic

If you are living in China, then go to your local grocer and offer the shop the option of choosing dollars or yuan. Let's see what your own market chooses. This will tell you what's fake and what's real.

If you didn't know already, in India, the only legal tender is rupees, not dollars. So the value of rupees in India is much higher inside India compared to its value outside India. The dollar is completely worthless inside India.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Their quality of life and access to services is superior to the Chinese rural areas even today.

I see these conditions have driven you crazy; completely, incurably crazy.

 

[Kai Liu]

im not sure how much is it true

Good. Now what about our exports. Calculate that also.



You must be too stupid to recognise economic activity even if the region concerned is poor.

In India, we do not discriminate. We open our cities to even the poorest of people, unlike China.



Their quality of life and access to services is superior to the Chinese rural areas even today.



Demographic dividend is real. That's what made China prosperous.

Don't blame us for the CCP's inability to manage its flock of sheep.



If you are living in China, then go to your local grocer and offer the shop the option of choosing dollars or yuan. Let's see what your own market chooses. This will tell you what's fake and what's real.

If you didn't know already, in India, the only legal tender is rupees, not dollars. So the value of rupees in India is much higher inside India compared to its value outside India. The dollar is completely worthless inside India.

OMG, anybody except shameless and delusional indians will be uttermostly ashamed to see their capital city being such a shithole...while those from Gangadesh still feel no shame for their useless government at all.... Our countryside are million times better than your shithole capital and slumdog city mumbai....
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...rom-the-western-media-and-the-reality.551179/

Huh? All I see is CPC'ers run away when they attempt any semi-serious discussion on it:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/india-and-china-a-gdp-comparison.455611/page-4#post-8812159

Read that whole thread if you want. I don't get what you mean by "Indian PPP"....are you implying the ICP matrix is controlled/set by India?... because that is a very easy bubble to pop.

If a country is more export-growth + forex + USD liquidity oriented, of course its nominal/PPP realisation will be higher. Thats why there is barely any difference between the two for the highest trade+investment (esp in USD terms)/capita countries. That is not anything to do regarding a joke....PPP is the measure used by human development index for a very important reason (it is actual physical realised consumption on one standardised reference).



Huh? That's not what I was saying at all. In PPP terms, India has accomplished an average of 8.5% per annum for last 5 years.

More or less its same rate that China was growing at same point in development.

From 2002 - 2007, China grew from 4.5 to 9 trillion USD in PPP terms.

From 2008 to 2016, India grew from around 4.3 to 8.7 trillion USD.

Ok 3 years more....but this matters massively in the argument given the timeframes of century of humiliation and colonization etc for these two civilisations?



The average household buys a rafale? LOL. Another clueless CPC'er.

Have you taken even one look at the ICP matrix? Do you even know what that is?



LOL. So how much percentage are imports of Indian GDP even in current terms? Actually tell me what the net current account is of GDP first.

Import everyyyttthingggg. lol...waste of time discussing. Tell me when the smart ones like @Genesis and @GS Zhou arrive to talk.

Indian PPP is piece of shit... No need to deny, we know it:
Take transportation as an example:
You take a shitty no-AC bus with hundreds of people in india, vs take a AC pure electric bus in China, in terms of PPP, will count the same as "purchase power" but will not take account the quality and the operating cost of both...

vs

Same as take a little midget taxi in india vs take a pure electric taxi in China:

And needless to say your trains...
They all counted the same as transportation cost in your joke "PPP" , regardless of the quality of service (which will of course cost more for the operators and for the passengers) ...
Anyone with a IQ above 82 will be able to understand this.

Our car industry alone worth half of indian GDP, while cars in China are cheaper than in india where your people are sooooo poor, can not even afford a little midget car... How can india has almost half China's purchase power??? indian PPP is joke of the century brought about by your western masters who do the fanfare job for your "democracy"... Lol..,.
Look at random videos of what kind of cars are running on the road:
Shanghai: (30 million such cars sold here in China nationwide annually)

Mumbai: (less than 4 million such cars sold in whole india in a year)

Note, even this video is 2X speed to make the traffic look faster....(indian tricks again here..Lol)

 

[randomradio]

OMG, anybody except shameless and delusional indians will be uttermostly ashamed to see their capital city being such a shithole...while those from Gangadesh still feel no shame for their useless government at all.... Our countryside are million times better than your shithole capital and slumdog city mumbai....
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...rom-the-western-media-and-the-reality.551179/


Indian PPP is piece of shit... No need to deny, we know it:
Take transportation as an example:
You take a shitty no-AC bus with hundreds of people in india, vs take a AC pure electric bus in China, in terms of PPP, will count the same as "purchase power" but will not take account the quality and the operating cost of both...

vs

Same as take a little midget taxi in india vs take a pure electric taxi in China:

And needless to say your trains...
They all counted the same as transportation cost in your joke "PPP" , regardless of the quality of service (which will of course cost more for the operators and for the passengers) ...
Anyone with a IQ above 82 will be able to understand this.

All their lives are better than the lives of rural Chinese. And the rural Chinese are apparently richer than most Indians in cities as well. Delhi's per capita income is less than $5000, while China's total per capita income is twice that. That's pretty embarrassing to say the least for you lot.

 

[AndrewJin]

OMG, anybody except shameless and delusional indians will be uttermostly ashamed to see their capital city being such a shithole...while those from Gangadesh still feel no shame for their useless government at all.... Our countryside are million times better than your shithole capital and slumdog city mumbai....
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...rom-the-western-media-and-the-reality.551179/


Indian PPP is piece of shit... No need to deny, we know it:
Take transportation as an example:
You take a shitty no-AC bus with hundreds of people in india, vs take a AC pure electric bus in China, in terms of PPP, will count the same as "purchase power" but will not take account the quality and the operating cost of both...

vs

Same as take a little midget taxi in india vs take a pure electric taxi in China:

And needless to say your trains...
They all counted the same as transportation cost in your joke "PPP" , regardless of the quality of service (which will of course cost more for the operators and for the passengers) ...
Anyone with a IQ above 82 will be able to understand this.

Our car industry alone worth half of indian GDP, while cars in China are cheaper than in india where your people are sooooo poor, can not even afford a little midget car... How can india has almost half China's purchase power??? indian PPP is joke of the century brought about by your western masters who do the fanfare job for your "democracy"... Lol..,.
Look at random videos of what kind of cars are running on the road:
Shanghai: (30 million such cars sold here in China nationwide annually)

Mumbai: (less than 4 million such cars sold in whole india in a year)

Note, even this video is 2X speed to make the traffic look faster....(indian tricks again here..Lol)

OMG, non-A/C bus in a country where 40 degree is normal?
Do PDF RSSers know what is A/C?

Our car industry alone worth half of indian GDP, while cars in China are cheaper than in india where your people are sooooo poor, can not even afford a little midget car... How can india has almost half China's purchase power??? indian PPP is joke of the century brought about by your western masters who do the fanfare job for your "democracy"... Lol..,.
Look at random videos of what kind of cars are running on the road:
Shanghai: (30 million such cars sold here in China nationwide annually)

Tuktuk is their national pride...
PPP is indeed a joke, but PDF RSSer with their less-than-82, seriously believe in that joke like they believe in cows.

their first-tier city needs half a century to reach the CURRENT level of capital of China's poorest province.
Maybe, NEVER.
China's poorest province' capital has 5+ high-speed railways and, NO COW SHITS.

 

[dani191]

OMG, non-A/C bus in a country where 40 degree is normal?
Do PDF RSSers know what is A/C?


Tuktuk is their national pride...
PPP is indeed a joke, but PDF RSSer with their less-than-82, seriously believe in that joke like they believe in cows.

their first-tier city needs half a century to reach the CURRENT level of capital of China's poorest province.
Maybe, NEVER.
China's poorest province' capital has 5+ high-speed railways and, NO COW SHITS.

how much india gdp per capita?

 

[Nilgiri]

OMG, anybody except shameless and delusional indians will be uttermostly ashamed to see their capital city being such a shithole...while those from Gangadesh still feel no shame for their useless government at all.... Our countryside are million times better than your shithole capital and slumdog city mumbai....
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...rom-the-western-media-and-the-reality.551179/


Indian PPP is piece of shit... No need to deny, we know it:
Take transportation as an example:
You take a shitty no-AC bus with hundreds of people in india, vs take a AC pure electric bus in China, in terms of PPP, will count the same as "purchase power" but will not take account the quality and the operating cost of both...

vs

Same as take a little midget taxi in india vs take a pure electric taxi in China:

And needless to say your trains...
They all counted the same as transportation cost in your joke "PPP" , regardless of the quality of service (which will of course cost more for the operators and for the passengers) ...
Anyone with a IQ above 82 will be able to understand this.

Our car industry alone worth half of indian GDP, while cars in China are cheaper than in india where your people are sooooo poor, can not even afford a little midget car... How can india has almost half China's purchase power??? indian PPP is joke of the century brought about by your western masters who do the fanfare job for your "democracy"... Lol..,.
Look at random videos of what kind of cars are running on the road:
Shanghai: (30 million such cars sold here in China nationwide annually)

Mumbai: (less than 4 million such cars sold in whole india in a year)

Note, even this video is 2X speed to make the traffic look faster....(indian tricks again here..Lol)

Epic triggered CPC rant. Tell me when you have actual substance to discuss on PPP rather than cherrypick +extrapolate typical of Tianenmen 10,000 meat pie never happened groupthink.

Plenty of disgusting videos of China to post (overcrowding transport, people eating crap, sewage oil being used to make cooking oil etc etc), easily found on youtube....but whats the point?....Chinese attitude and denial complex is becoming more and more apparent even to your higher than mountains "friends":

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/uyghur-concentration-camps.560751/

Again please can one chinese member answer:

Russian economy is now HALF of what it was in 2013...or simply about the same? Very simple question.

 

[Cybernetics]

Russian economy is now HALF of what it was in 2013...or simply about the same? Very simple question.

There is a different view of GDP and economy by different groups. The critiques they present are different driven by the different end goals and in turn strategy that is implemented.

Most of the developing world is looking at GDP and economy in terms of basic services for improvements basic living standards along with some light industry (consumer goods). Nothing wrong with that as, desire for better living conditions is universal. China due to its large export orientated light industry has substantially reduced prices of its basic consumer goods compared to the global prices (often its less than half) and this includes many high tech consumer products. It has mostly resolved the basic issues of consumer services and consumer light industry. It is not something most Chinese worry about.

If we look at PPP, its based on a basket and the weighting of each category differs from nation to nation due to different lifestyles. The specific products that composes that category is also different, some products are more advanced than others.

The Russian economy is fairly self reliant in terms of many of its core technologies and light industries. Living standards will suffer somewhat if it doesn't have access to international markets but it's economy's technology level won't experience a collapse due to it. The Western sanctions on Russia did increase consumer prices but the important thing to note is that they still had most of its technology access from their domestic producers. Russia was cut off from its Ukrainian partners for its gas turbines but was able to in a fairly short amount of time replace that with domestic producers, resulting in maintaining of technology levels in its economy. This is partially a product of the Soviet economic legacy.

Long term nominal GDP (there are fluctuations) implies a certain degree of market competitiveness for your overall economy and its industrial exports. That's what many Chinese cares about, technological security is more important than purely living standards. You can't maintain advanced living standards securely without core-technologies.

There are very few nations that hold an ecosystem of core technologies.

China can produce many of its core-technologies, some are not advanced but access is there. The question of core-technology competency and security is what compels Chinese strategists. The purchasing power Chinese really cares about is industrial products and IP like auto manufacturing lines, robots, heavy machinery, integrated circuit manufacturing, aerospace, AI, etc. When China has a competitive player entering into these areas the global prices often drop by around 30%, increasing the purchasing power and technology security.

From China's internal perspective, many strategists are very against using PPP as an accurate measure of the overall economy. They think it hypnotises people into believing a false sense of security and progress. They bash the idea with anecdotes of the Opium wars and why it happened, lack of relevant core-technologies. It's nice that people can eat out more and providing more services to each other but a large country is only strong if it is competent in core technologies. Many of China's strategists don't even consider China an industrially "strong" country and officially announced the initiative to transition China from an industrially large nation to a "strong" one. The intense reactions you see from certain Chinese members is due to this perception difference. From their view, India announcing or implying its strong is ridiculous to them. They don't deny it's a large nation.

 

[Nilgiri]

There is a different view of GDP and economy by different groups. The critiques they present are different driven by the different end goals and in turn strategy that is implemented.

Most of the developing world is looking at GDP and economy in terms of basic services for improvements basic living standards along with some light industry (consumer goods). Nothing wrong with that as, desire for better living conditions is universal. China due to its large export orientated light industry has substantially reduced prices of its basic consumer goods compared to the global prices (often its less than half) and this includes many high tech consumer products. It has mostly resolved the basic issues of consumer services and consumer light industry. It is not something most Chinese worry about.

If we look at PPP, its based on a basket and the weighting of each category differs from nation to nation due to different lifestyles. The specific products that composes that category is also different, some products are more advanced than others.

The Russian economy is fairly self reliant in terms of many of its core technologies and light industries. Living standards will suffer somewhat if it doesn't have access to international markets but it's economy's technology level won't experience a collapse due to it. The Western sanctions on Russia did increase consumer prices but the important thing to note is that they still had most of its technology access from their domestic producers. Russia was cut off from its Ukrainian partners for its gas turbines but was able to in a fairly short amount of time replace that with domestic producers, resulting in maintaining of technology levels in its economy. This is partially a product of the Soviet economic legacy.

Long term nominal GDP (there are fluctuations) implies a certain degree of market competitiveness for your overall economy and its industrial exports. That's what many Chinese cares about, technological security is more important than purely living standards. You can't maintain advanced living standards securely without core-technologies.

There are very few nations that hold an ecosystem of core technologies.

China can produce many of its core-technologies, some are not advanced but access is there. The question of core-technology competency and security is what compels Chinese strategists. The purchasing power Chinese really cares about is industrial products and IP like auto manufacturing lines, robots, heavy machinery, integrated circuit manufacturing, aerospace, AI, etc. When China has a competitive player entering into these areas the global prices often drop by around 30%, increasing the purchasing power and technology security.

From China's internal perspective, many strategists are very against using PPP as an accurate measure of the overall economy. They think it hypnotises people into believing a false sense of security and progress. They bash the idea with anecdotes of the Opium wars and why it happened, lack of relevant core-technologies. It's nice that people can eat out more and providing more services to each other but a large country is only strong if it is competent in core technologies. Many of China's strategists don't even consider China an industrially "strong" country and officially announced the initiative to transition China from an industrially large nation to a "strong" one. The intense reactions you see from certain Chinese members is due to this perception difference. From their view, India announcing or implying its strong is ridiculous to them. They don't deny it's a large nation.

Loved the post buddy. Hope you get think tank status at some point given you have made a succession of well thought out posts now @waz @Jungibaaz @WebMaster

I am good with people to have difference in perspective and opinion on the matter and explaining where they are coming from regarding that...especially in long detailed post like yours. But to tag in such thread (as OP did) and then same motley crew parroting a narrative and refusing to give the same latitude to another country/society and say only one's own way of thinking is superior and absolute is what annoys me. If you look at the earlier post I made in another thread, its very much along the line of pros/cons that can be argued from either perspective:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/india-and-china-a-gdp-comparison.455611/page-4#post-8811612

But it does not mean one is more automatically/inherently valid/correct....it all depends on what the perspective and nuance is. I mean there is also a depth of reason why USD is used as the nominal reference (because of its abundance), without really acknowledging the larger economic flaws of doing this (permeation rates of that abundance...not to mention creeping problems with the source of the abundance). What is immediately/easily available versus what should be theoretically measured/analysed are rarely fully congruent sets when it comes to large macroeconomic aggregation.