China asks local airlines to ground Boeing 737 Max
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Götterdämmerung
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Crap Made in USA, what else?
gambit
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Yes, we would have. What the airlines are doing now is understandably PRECAUTIONARY. Do you understand that word?
But what professionals should not do is jump to conclusion while waiting for data. A Class A mishap is when there is $1mil or greater of property and/or lives loss. A Class A mishap can take months or even yrs to conclude that a particular engineering subsystem is at fault or a design flaw was missed or pilot errors or combination of factors.
For example...Asiana Flight 214 crashed on Jul 2013 and the investigation concluded on Jun 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214
Except on this forum, grounding a model of an aircraft DOES NOT constitute -- even by implication -- that there is something technically flawed with that model.
Pilot errors are ruinous to the reputation of individuals and the airline company that employs the pilots, and with the charge of 'pilot error', other pilots in that company can be tainted as well because of the hint that the quality of personnel is less than peers.
Engineering or design flaws are financially costly to airlines and manufacturers. It is often disruptive to travel as the airliners have to reschedule flights and to take affected aircrafts offline.
But trolls in this thread are not interested in being reasonable.
gambit
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Yup...What else are there? Airbus ain't cutting it, and your China still has a looooooooooooooong way to go in the international market. YOU can always walk, drive, rail, or swim.
Götterdämmerung
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Yup...What else are there? Airbus ain't cutting it, and your China still has a looooooooooooooong way to go in the international market. YOU can always walk, drive, rail, or swim.
My China?
LOL, k, then your Vietnam has an even looooooooooonger way or rather no way to go anywhere.
Lol.. you think B737 max 100% made in USA? And you think China can't made those things? It's more of marketing. And at least those engine are inspected by hard-working Chinese and not fat lazy fat American worker who will give a shabby work.You mean the COMAC C919 with junk avionics from Rockwell Collins and junk Engine from PW? Or ARJ21 with junk avionics from Rockwellcollins and Junk Engines from GE?
I will not pity u. B737 max is crap and airliner and victim shall sue Boeing to bankrupt.
U.K. grounds Boeing jet model following Ethiopian Airlines crash
By Minyvonne Burke with NBC News World News• last updated: 12/03/2019 - 14:51
Britain's Civil Aviation Authority is the latest to announce that it would be grounding all Boeing 737 Max aircraft following a fatal Ethiopian Airlines crash that killed all 157 people aboard.A spokesperson for the agency said Tuesday that out of precaution it "issued instructions to stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace.""Our thoughts go out to everyone affected by the tragic incident in Ethiopia on Sunday," the statement continued.
https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/12...-britain-grounds-boeing-737-jet-model-n982116
***************************
Europe Preparing to Ground Boeing 737 Max After U.K. Halts Flights
By BENJAMIN KATZ, CHRISTOPHER JASPER, GARCÍA PÉREZ, and BLOOMBERG Updated: March 12, 2019 11:15 AM ET
Europe is preparing a ban on flights with Boeing Co.’s 737 Max aircraft, according to a person familiar with the matter, in a move that could trigger a global grounding of the model after a crash in Africa on Sunday raised questions about its safety.
Britain’s Civil Aviation Authority has already joined countries banning the plane from its airspace, saying Tuesday that the measure was “precautionary” in the absence of information from the Ethiopian Airlines jet’s flight recorders.
The European Aviation Safety Agency plans to take a similar step shortly, according to the person, who asked not to be named before an announcement.
While China, Australia and Singapore had already grounded the Max, the spread of the ban to Europe represents a major blow to Boeing as it grapples with the aftermath of the African tragedy. Britain is the world’s third-biggest aviation market, while EASA is one of the industry’s two biggest regulators along with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, which says the plane is safe to fly.
“I’m watching this unfold with an element of astonishment and bemusement,” said Sandy Morris, an analyst at Jefferies International in London. “What we’re looking at here is almost a rebellion against the FAA. You’re now looking at American and Southwest and asking, can you really still operate this aircraft?”
Boeing said following the British declaration that the FAA is not mandating any further action at this time, with the U.S. planemaker adding that other agencies and customers have made decisions that they believe are “most appropriate for their home markets.”
Shares of the Chicago-based company were trading 5.3 percent lower as of 10:22 a.m. in New York, extending losses from Monday when the stock had its biggest intra-day drop since the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
The U.K. ban directly affects five planes at the British arm of TUI AG, the world’s biggest tour operator, plus a sixth that was schedule to start flights this week, according to the CAA.
Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA said it won’t operate further services with its fleet of about 20 Max jets until further notice and that the moratorium will apply across its network, not just in Britain. Shares of the company, which is grappling with a cash squeeze after British Airways owner IAG SA dropped a takeover bid, tumbled 9.2 percent in Oslo before trading 4 percent lower.
The British Airline Pilots’ Association said in an email that it welcomed the CAA action and that while its too early to know the cause of the Ethiopian crash, “safety must come first.”
Airlines and regulators have halted flights by at least 150 Max aircraft in the wake of the tragedy. While investigators are working to retrieve information from the jet’s black-box flight recorders, concerns have been raised about similarities to a crash involving a Lion Air 737 in October, which a preliminary probe suggested was caused by an automated safety system taking control of the plane in response to erroneous readings from a faulty sensor.
Boeing issued further guidance to pilots on how to cope with such a situation, and said again after the Ethiopian disaster, which killed 157 people, that the Max is an intrinsically safe aircraft.
With numerous operators in Asia, Africa, Latin America and now Europe grounding the plane in the absence of conclusive evidence, the U.S. is looking isolated in continuing to permit flights.
President Donald Trump weighed into the controversy Tuesday, saying just minutes after the U.K. restrictions that aircraft “are becoming far too complex to fly.”
http://fortune.com/2019/03/12/europe-uk-grounds-boeing-737-max/
By Minyvonne Burke with NBC News World News• last updated: 12/03/2019 - 14:51
Britain's Civil Aviation Authority is the latest to announce that it would be grounding all Boeing 737 Max aircraft following a fatal Ethiopian Airlines crash that killed all 157 people aboard.A spokesperson for the agency said Tuesday that out of precaution it "issued instructions to stop any commercial passenger flights from any operator arriving, departing or overflying UK airspace.""Our thoughts go out to everyone affected by the tragic incident in Ethiopia on Sunday," the statement continued.
https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/12...-britain-grounds-boeing-737-jet-model-n982116
***************************
Europe Preparing to Ground Boeing 737 Max After U.K. Halts Flights
By BENJAMIN KATZ, CHRISTOPHER JASPER, GARCÍA PÉREZ, and BLOOMBERG Updated: March 12, 2019 11:15 AM ET
Europe is preparing a ban on flights with Boeing Co.’s 737 Max aircraft, according to a person familiar with the matter, in a move that could trigger a global grounding of the model after a crash in Africa on Sunday raised questions about its safety.
Britain’s Civil Aviation Authority has already joined countries banning the plane from its airspace, saying Tuesday that the measure was “precautionary” in the absence of information from the Ethiopian Airlines jet’s flight recorders.
The European Aviation Safety Agency plans to take a similar step shortly, according to the person, who asked not to be named before an announcement.
While China, Australia and Singapore had already grounded the Max, the spread of the ban to Europe represents a major blow to Boeing as it grapples with the aftermath of the African tragedy. Britain is the world’s third-biggest aviation market, while EASA is one of the industry’s two biggest regulators along with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, which says the plane is safe to fly.
“I’m watching this unfold with an element of astonishment and bemusement,” said Sandy Morris, an analyst at Jefferies International in London. “What we’re looking at here is almost a rebellion against the FAA. You’re now looking at American and Southwest and asking, can you really still operate this aircraft?”
Boeing said following the British declaration that the FAA is not mandating any further action at this time, with the U.S. planemaker adding that other agencies and customers have made decisions that they believe are “most appropriate for their home markets.”
Shares of the Chicago-based company were trading 5.3 percent lower as of 10:22 a.m. in New York, extending losses from Monday when the stock had its biggest intra-day drop since the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
The U.K. ban directly affects five planes at the British arm of TUI AG, the world’s biggest tour operator, plus a sixth that was schedule to start flights this week, according to the CAA.
Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA said it won’t operate further services with its fleet of about 20 Max jets until further notice and that the moratorium will apply across its network, not just in Britain. Shares of the company, which is grappling with a cash squeeze after British Airways owner IAG SA dropped a takeover bid, tumbled 9.2 percent in Oslo before trading 4 percent lower.
The British Airline Pilots’ Association said in an email that it welcomed the CAA action and that while its too early to know the cause of the Ethiopian crash, “safety must come first.”
Airlines and regulators have halted flights by at least 150 Max aircraft in the wake of the tragedy. While investigators are working to retrieve information from the jet’s black-box flight recorders, concerns have been raised about similarities to a crash involving a Lion Air 737 in October, which a preliminary probe suggested was caused by an automated safety system taking control of the plane in response to erroneous readings from a faulty sensor.
Boeing issued further guidance to pilots on how to cope with such a situation, and said again after the Ethiopian disaster, which killed 157 people, that the Max is an intrinsically safe aircraft.
With numerous operators in Asia, Africa, Latin America and now Europe grounding the plane in the absence of conclusive evidence, the U.S. is looking isolated in continuing to permit flights.
President Donald Trump weighed into the controversy Tuesday, saying just minutes after the U.K. restrictions that aircraft “are becoming far too complex to fly.”
http://fortune.com/2019/03/12/europe-uk-grounds-boeing-737-max/
ohmrlobalobayeh
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So.....
what you gonna do about China grounding its entire fleet of 737 Max(and likely cancelling any remaining orders), as well as leading others to do the same:
Asia & Pacific
China’s ban on the Boeing 737 Max inspires others, ramps up pressure on U.S. regulator
China’s ban on the Boeing 737 Max inspires others, ramps up pressure on U.S. regulator
One of Boeing’s most important profit drivers, the 737 Max 8 jet, is facing renewed questions about its safety and reliability. (Luis Velarde/The Washington Post)
By Gerry Shih
March 12 at 5:31 PM
BEIJING — When China on Monday became the first country to order all Boeing 737 Max 8 planes grounded in the aftermath of an Ethiopian Airlines crash Sunday, its aviation regulator sent an unmistakable signal: The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration is no longer the only authority in civil aviation worldwide.....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ccfeec87a61_story.html?utm_term=.18e0cac0c462
And no, I'm only interested in the end result of the discussion here- and that is knowing what are you gonna do about it.
Thanks.
gambit
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The only thing you and your Chinese friends are good at is trolling. I stand by my record about this subject on this forum. It has been CONSISTENT since '09 that I have always advocated people to hold off their opinions until the investigation is complete. Waiting for information, especially technical information, have NEVER been you guys' strong suit. Simply put, you guys troll brains cannot process such sophisticated knowledge.
American Airlines, Southwest flight attendants ask carriers to ground Boeing 737 Max planes after crash
PUBLISHED TUE, MAR 12 2019 • 1:43 PM EDT | UPDATED 2 HOURS AGO
Leslie Josephs
KEY POINTS
*American Airlines’ flight attendant union asks carrier to ground planes until more is known about crash.
*Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302, a Boeing 737 Max 8, went down shortly after takeoff on Sunday, killing all 157 on board.
*It’s the second major crash for the plane and airlines and government around the world are suspending it from their skies.
American Airlines and Southwest Airlines flight attendants and ground crews urged the companies to take their Boeing 737 Max airplanes out of service after other carriers around the world suspended the jets following a fatal crash in Ethiopia over the weekend, the workers’ unions said Tuesday.
Aviation regulators in Europe on Tuesday joined officials in China, Indonesia and airlines from Mexico to Singapore in temporarily suspending the planes’ use in the wake of the crash — the second of one of the fastest-ever selling Boeing jets in less than five months.
American and Southwest on Tuesday told CNBC that they still have confidence in the aircraft and their crews. The Federal Aviation Administration deemed the planes are still airworthy in a notice Monday, saying it did not see a reason to ground the jets. Boeing late Monday said it is preparing updates to training manuals and software. That comes after concerns that automated systems played a role in bringing down a Lion Air Boeing 737 Max 8 in Indonesia in October, killing all 157 people on board.
Sixty percent of global 737 Max fleet now grounded
Still, passengers have fretted about the aircraft’s safety record and asked airlines to change flights to avoid it. American said it has not lifted its ticket-change fees, which can cost $200 or more, for travelers who want to avoid the Boeing 737 Max.
Southwest has 34 Boeing 737 Max 8 planes in its fleet and said it would “waive fare differences that might normally apply” for travelers who wish to “rebook their flight to another aircraft type,” spokesman Dan Landson told CNBC. The planes represent a small number of Southwest’s fleet of more than 750 Boeing 737s, which is mostly older models than the Max.
The issue is straining relations between the airlines and their largest employee groups, which are in the middle of contract negotiations.
“Our Flight Attendants are very concerned with the recent Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 crash, which has raised safety concerns with the 737 MAX 8,” said Lori Bassani, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, which represents American’s some 27,000 flight attendants. “Many respected global carriers are grounding the planes. We are calling on our CEO Doug Parker to strongly consider grounding these planes until a thorough investigation can be performed. ”
The Transport Workers Union of America, which represents Southwest’s more than 15,000 flight attendants and 13,400 ramp and other operations workers, wrote to the airline’s CEO Gary Kelly, asking him to take the Boeing 737 Max planes out of service ”until the results of the investigation into the voice and data recorders is completed and the cause of the catastrophe is determined. ”
The union, which also represents most of American’s mechanics, sent a similar note to American Airlines’ CEO.
The company said it believes the plane is safe and that its pilots are well-trained to fly it.
“Our flight, flight service, tech ops and our safety teams, along with the heads of our pilot and flight attendant unions, will continue to closely monitor the accident investigation from this weekend,” American said in a statement. “We are keen to learn any findings from the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder, which will provide a better understanding of the cause of this recent accident.”
Investigators have recovered the two black boxes from the crash site, which should provide information about what brought down Nairobi, Kenya-bound Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. That Boeing 737 Max 8 crashed in a rural area outside of Addis Ababa shortly after takeoff, killing all 157 passengers and crew, less than five months after the Lion Air crash.
Bassani said the union told flight attendants that they don’t have to work on a plane they don’t feel comfortable flying on.
American’s pilots’ union said it contacted company executives about the group’s “critical safety concerns” after the crash.
“It is important for you to know that if you feel it is unsafe to work the 737 Max, you will not be forced to fly it, ” the Allied Pilots Association told its members Tuesday.
There are more than 370 Boeing 737 Max planes flying worldwide, 74 within the United States, the FAA said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/12/ame...ax-planes-after-ethiopian-airlines-crash.html
PUBLISHED TUE, MAR 12 2019 • 1:43 PM EDT | UPDATED 2 HOURS AGO
Leslie Josephs
KEY POINTS
*American Airlines’ flight attendant union asks carrier to ground planes until more is known about crash.
*Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302, a Boeing 737 Max 8, went down shortly after takeoff on Sunday, killing all 157 on board.
*It’s the second major crash for the plane and airlines and government around the world are suspending it from their skies.
American Airlines and Southwest Airlines flight attendants and ground crews urged the companies to take their Boeing 737 Max airplanes out of service after other carriers around the world suspended the jets following a fatal crash in Ethiopia over the weekend, the workers’ unions said Tuesday.
Aviation regulators in Europe on Tuesday joined officials in China, Indonesia and airlines from Mexico to Singapore in temporarily suspending the planes’ use in the wake of the crash — the second of one of the fastest-ever selling Boeing jets in less than five months.
American and Southwest on Tuesday told CNBC that they still have confidence in the aircraft and their crews. The Federal Aviation Administration deemed the planes are still airworthy in a notice Monday, saying it did not see a reason to ground the jets. Boeing late Monday said it is preparing updates to training manuals and software. That comes after concerns that automated systems played a role in bringing down a Lion Air Boeing 737 Max 8 in Indonesia in October, killing all 157 people on board.
Sixty percent of global 737 Max fleet now grounded
Still, passengers have fretted about the aircraft’s safety record and asked airlines to change flights to avoid it. American said it has not lifted its ticket-change fees, which can cost $200 or more, for travelers who want to avoid the Boeing 737 Max.
Southwest has 34 Boeing 737 Max 8 planes in its fleet and said it would “waive fare differences that might normally apply” for travelers who wish to “rebook their flight to another aircraft type,” spokesman Dan Landson told CNBC. The planes represent a small number of Southwest’s fleet of more than 750 Boeing 737s, which is mostly older models than the Max.
The issue is straining relations between the airlines and their largest employee groups, which are in the middle of contract negotiations.
“Our Flight Attendants are very concerned with the recent Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 crash, which has raised safety concerns with the 737 MAX 8,” said Lori Bassani, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, which represents American’s some 27,000 flight attendants. “Many respected global carriers are grounding the planes. We are calling on our CEO Doug Parker to strongly consider grounding these planes until a thorough investigation can be performed. ”
The Transport Workers Union of America, which represents Southwest’s more than 15,000 flight attendants and 13,400 ramp and other operations workers, wrote to the airline’s CEO Gary Kelly, asking him to take the Boeing 737 Max planes out of service ”until the results of the investigation into the voice and data recorders is completed and the cause of the catastrophe is determined. ”
The union, which also represents most of American’s mechanics, sent a similar note to American Airlines’ CEO.
The company said it believes the plane is safe and that its pilots are well-trained to fly it.
“Our flight, flight service, tech ops and our safety teams, along with the heads of our pilot and flight attendant unions, will continue to closely monitor the accident investigation from this weekend,” American said in a statement. “We are keen to learn any findings from the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder, which will provide a better understanding of the cause of this recent accident.”
Investigators have recovered the two black boxes from the crash site, which should provide information about what brought down Nairobi, Kenya-bound Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. That Boeing 737 Max 8 crashed in a rural area outside of Addis Ababa shortly after takeoff, killing all 157 passengers and crew, less than five months after the Lion Air crash.
Bassani said the union told flight attendants that they don’t have to work on a plane they don’t feel comfortable flying on.
American’s pilots’ union said it contacted company executives about the group’s “critical safety concerns” after the crash.
“It is important for you to know that if you feel it is unsafe to work the 737 Max, you will not be forced to fly it, ” the Allied Pilots Association told its members Tuesday.
There are more than 370 Boeing 737 Max planes flying worldwide, 74 within the United States, the FAA said.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/12/ame...ax-planes-after-ethiopian-airlines-crash.html
Super Falcon
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737max a poor aircraft from boeing they should have produced a new aircraft
TheDarkKnight
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Sorry, to put it as mildly as possible, this sounds hypocritical. Your first post below was nothing but inflammatory calling the plane as 'shoddy engineering' and asking for 'firing engineers' etc.
Most of your other posts are also similar in quality. And the reaction to it was actually quite measured … just asking how are you coming up to this opinion, whether they are based on real life experiences or not - which you clearly don't other wise you would have given some explanations.
So China is also making junk - as you said your self 737 is all Junk?
Why you want to inspect junk? Inspecting junk doesn't make it non junk … a junk will remain junk no matter how much the hard working slave labor of China inspects them.And you think China can't made those things? It's more of marketing. And at least those engine are inspected by hard-working Chinese and not fat lazy fat American worker who will give a shabby work.
About marketing: Your post shows that you are bad at marketing as well,by propagating yourself on an international forum that the engines and avionics of your a/c are junk!
The question is if you know for sure its junk, then why are you using it in your a/c programs? If you can "made those things" then please save this world from US junk - actually save your self first from US junk by dumping GE, PW etc. Engines and avionics are the most critical portion of the a/c and you are importing them from US companies as I pointed out - the rest is airframe.
Boeing: Europe and India join wave of countries grounding the 737 Max
6 hours ago
The European Union and India have banned the Boeing 737 Max from flying over their airspace to ensure passenger safety.
They join a long list of countries in suspending the plane, including the UK.
It comes after an Ethiopian Airlines plane crashed on Sunday, killing 157 people on board. It was the second fatal accident involving the 737 Max 8 model in less than five months.
US officials say the aircraft are still safe to fly.
However, the US Association of Flight Attendants-CWA union is now calling for the Federal Aviation Administration "to temporarily ground the 737 Max fleet in the US out of an abundance of caution".
India's Ministry of Civil Aviation announced that it would ground the Boeing 737-Max planes "immediately".
It said: "These planes will be grounded till appropriate modifications and safety measures are undertaken to ensure their safe operations."
It following a similar decision by the EU Aviation Safety Agency which said it is suspending the aircraft "as a precautionary measure".
Earlier today, the UK's Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said it was banning the plane, joining other countries including China.
Investigators have recovered the flight recorders from the Ethiopian Airlines plane and are currently examining the data to determine what caused the crash.
EU Aviation Safety Agency said: "The accident investigation is currently ongoing, and it is too early to draw any conclusions as to the cause of the accident."
The CAA said its directive would remain in place until further notice.
It said it took the decision because it did not currently have "sufficient information" from the flight data recorder about the fatal crash.
Tui Airways and Norwegian both operate the Boeing Max 8 in the UK as part of their fleets.
One Turkish Airlines flight to Birmingham turned around and returned to Istanbul. And a Norwegian Air plane from Stockholm to Tel Aviv turned back over Romania.
A Tui statement confirmed their 737 Max 8 aircraft were grounded.
"Any customers due to fly home today on a 737 Max 8 from their holiday will be flown back on another aircraft," it read.
"Customers due to travel in the coming days will also travel on holiday as planned on other aircraft."
Norwegian said it had also suspended flights of the aircraft and apologised for the inconvenience to passengers.
India's SpiceJet, which has an estimated 13 Boeing 737 Max 8 planes in its fleet, has suspended the aircraft.
6 hours ago
The European Union and India have banned the Boeing 737 Max from flying over their airspace to ensure passenger safety.
They join a long list of countries in suspending the plane, including the UK.
It comes after an Ethiopian Airlines plane crashed on Sunday, killing 157 people on board. It was the second fatal accident involving the 737 Max 8 model in less than five months.
US officials say the aircraft are still safe to fly.
However, the US Association of Flight Attendants-CWA union is now calling for the Federal Aviation Administration "to temporarily ground the 737 Max fleet in the US out of an abundance of caution".
India's Ministry of Civil Aviation announced that it would ground the Boeing 737-Max planes "immediately".
It said: "These planes will be grounded till appropriate modifications and safety measures are undertaken to ensure their safe operations."
It following a similar decision by the EU Aviation Safety Agency which said it is suspending the aircraft "as a precautionary measure".
Earlier today, the UK's Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said it was banning the plane, joining other countries including China.
Investigators have recovered the flight recorders from the Ethiopian Airlines plane and are currently examining the data to determine what caused the crash.
EU Aviation Safety Agency said: "The accident investigation is currently ongoing, and it is too early to draw any conclusions as to the cause of the accident."
The CAA said its directive would remain in place until further notice.
It said it took the decision because it did not currently have "sufficient information" from the flight data recorder about the fatal crash.
Tui Airways and Norwegian both operate the Boeing Max 8 in the UK as part of their fleets.
One Turkish Airlines flight to Birmingham turned around and returned to Istanbul. And a Norwegian Air plane from Stockholm to Tel Aviv turned back over Romania.
A Tui statement confirmed their 737 Max 8 aircraft were grounded.
"Any customers due to fly home today on a 737 Max 8 from their holiday will be flown back on another aircraft," it read.
"Customers due to travel in the coming days will also travel on holiday as planned on other aircraft."
Norwegian said it had also suspended flights of the aircraft and apologised for the inconvenience to passengers.
India's SpiceJet, which has an estimated 13 Boeing 737 Max 8 planes in its fleet, has suspended the aircraft.
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