China asks local airlines to ground Boeing 737 Max

[sinait]

Boeing need to get more Chinese Engineers AGAIN.
Just like old times.

https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime...man-who-got-u-s-aircraft-giant-boeing-flying/
The Chinese Birdman Who Got US Aircraft Giant Boeing Flying

Gary Locke, the Chinese-American former Washington governor and U.S. ambassador to China, recalled the engineer’s story and asked Mr. Xi to remember that there are “many engineers and machinists working at Boeing who are Chinese.”

Mr. Wong’s(Wang Tsu) hiring by Boeing produced almost immediate results. He used wind tunnel data from MIT and research findings by the French engineer Gustav Eiffel to spearhead an effort that by November 1916 got flying the Model C seaplane, Boeing’s first military aircraft.
.

 

[gambit]

Ad hominem? I'm entitled to my opinion. Plus if the engineers did indeed find that the MCAS was at fault for the crash and sent out a bulletin for training the crew on new procedures; the appropriate action was "in my opinion" to shut the system for all take-off and landing segments of the flight; unless they had other "major" cascading failures to deal with if the MCAS was shut off.

Sure you are entitled to your opinions, but you are not entitled to your facts, which includes ideas and concepts that are unique and that requires specialized education and experience. Problematic for you is when you said 'Seems to me'. Serious people take that phrase -- seriously. The phrase automatically implies TO THE AUDIENCE that the speaker have at least conceptual understanding, if not detailed technical experience, of the subject at hand. Are you saying you have that level of understanding?

So let us see what you got, shall we?

"Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS), that automatically pulls the plane's nose down if data suggests it is at risk."

Why -- philosophically speaking -- would we want to 'nose down' the aircraft if certain data 'suggests' the aircraft is at risk? What kind of data? What kind of risk?

 

[Enigma SIG]

Sure you are entitled to your opinions, but you are not entitled to your facts, which includes ideas and concepts that are unique and that requires specialized education and experience. Problematic for you is when you said 'Seems to me'. Serious people take that phrase -- seriously. The phrase automatically implies TO THE AUDIENCE that the speaker have at least conceptual understanding, if not detailed technical experience, of the subject at hand. Are you saying you have that level of understanding?

AD HOMINEM again. Sigh; and you are a PROFESSIONAL.

"Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS), that automatically pulls the plane's nose down if data suggests it is at risk."
Why -- philosophically speaking -- would we want to 'nose down' the aircraft if certain data 'suggests' the aircraft is at risk? What kind of data? What kind of risk?

You should be asking Boeing engineers as to why the MCAS pulls down a plane on take-off?

In a detailed account of the flight’s final moments, Nurcahyo said the graphs from the flight recorder showed the plane experienced technical difficulties shortly after takeoff as the captain and co-pilot began receiving different airspeed readings.

The plane then began careering up and down, to a height of 5,000ft.

As the aircraft began to nosedive, the pilot attempted to offset the action, fighting to keep it in the air. However, it became “increasingly difficult to control the airplane”, said Nurcahyo, as the load on the steering wheel became too heavy for the pilot to manually control, and “then the plane drops”. The aircraft crashed into the sea at a speed of more than 400mph.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...pilot-fought-to-keep-plane-in-air-says-report

 

[phancong]

Good for China to be safe than killed all the passengers on board with the next Boeing 737 max crash in the near future.

Boeing stock will be in a nosedive if these deadly crashed becuase of defective part of the plane.

 

[gambit]

You should be asking Boeing engineers as to why the MCAS pulls down a plane on take-off?

But am asking you since you implied you know what you are talking about.

By the way, I do know why.

But I also know that this is not about the aircraft or crashes. This is about a convenient event for you to jab at US. You are that shallow.

 

[Enigma SIG]

But am asking you since you implied you know what you are talking about.
By the way, I do know why.

Enlighten us oh great one. You wouldn't me straw-manning me if you did.

But I also know that this is not about the aircraft or crashes. This is about a convenient event for you to jab at US. You are that shallow.

ADHOMINEM again.

I don't care enough about the US to be "shallow". Regarding my questions about a tragedy in which a major aircraft manufacturer was involved and which markets and sells its products on a global scale; i'm just a "concerned" person who "regularly flies" and loves aviation; views the safety of passengers as paramount.

 

[gambit]

Made in USA crap.

This coming from a country that is STILL struggling with its first indigenous airliner and still relies on foreigners to build it.

When -- not if -- your C919 have its first Class A mishap, unlike you, I will be adult enough to refrain from making juvenile comments like you have. It is because I understand what is involved in building a complex item like an aircraft and that I have far more respect for the builders -- regardless of national origins -- than you do.

I don't care enough about the US to be "shallow".

But you are that shallow.

As for the MCAS, I already posted an explanation of how it works back when Lion Air JT620 crashed after take off. See if you are smart enough to find it.

 

[Enigma SIG]

See if you are smart enough to find it.

ADHOMINEM again

 

[gambit]

ADHOMINEM again

So we can conclude that you do not know what you are talking about. In other words -- STFU.

 

[Enigma SIG]

So we can conclude that you do not know what you are talking about. In other words -- STFU.

Verbal Fallacy
You failed to answer my question. Why is the MCAS detecting a stall at take-off? Relying on a single sensor? The designers "probably" failed to add redundant sensors as a safety fail for one of the most important piece of avionics on the aircraft; considering they had to redesign it because of new aircraft design.

Nurcahyo Utomo, aviation head at the National Transport Safety Committee, told the BBC that "several problems occurred simultaneously" during the flight, including problems with measuring air speed and altitude, and with the stick shaker.

There appeared to be particularly serious problems with the anti-stall system.
However, during flight JT610, the plane's automatic anti-stalling system repeatedly forced the plane's nose down, even when the plane was not stalling - possibly due to a faulty sensor.

Pilots tried to correct this by pointing the nose higher, until the system pushed it down again. This

happened more than 20 times.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46373125

 

[gambit]

You failed to answer my question. Why is the MCAS detecting a stall at take-off? Relying on a single sensor?

I did not 'failed' to answer your question. I answered/explained long ago. You are just too lazy to do proper research.

Be careful before you reply. If I said I explained MCAS, what are the odds that I actually have?

I am a USAF veteran, F-111 Cold War and F-16 Desert Storm. After the USAF, I designed and conducted field radar tests for 'autonomous low altitude unmanned airborne vehicles' aka 'drones'.

The designers "probably" failed to add redundant sensors as a safety fail for one of the most important piece of avionics on the aircraft; considering they had to redesign it because of new aircraft design.

Yeah...Sure...

 

[Enigma SIG]

Be careful before you reply. If I said I explained MCAS, what are the odds that I actually have?
I am a USAF veteran, F-111 Cold War and F-16 Desert Storm. After the USAF, I designed and conducted field radar tests for 'autonomous low altitude unmanned airborne vehicles' aka 'drones'.

My question was innocent and without any preconceived notions about US made aircraft/products. I am an aviation enthusiast and was looking for answers about a new airplane / engine design and why it had 2 crashes in less than a year. You had to come in with your fascist; America **** YEAH agenda and ruin it for everyone who reads the thread.

I'm wary of people explaining themselves and their accomplishments on the internet.

If you really are what you say; well

Go to bed grandpa, time for meds now.

 

[Beast]

This coming from a country that is STILL struggling with its first indigenous airliner and still relies on foreigners to build it.

When -- not if -- your C919 have its first Class A mishap, unlike you, I will be adult enough to refrain from making juvenile comments like you have. It is because I understand what is involved in building a complex item like an aircraft and that I have far more respect for the builders -- regardless of national origins -- than you do.

Dont try innocent when many times you insulted Chinese product without valid reasoning. This is called , have a taste of your own medicine.

At least China own made jet liner is not a killing machine unlike US B737 Max which development date is so fast but shabby work. Indeed made in USA crap, cheap ,low quality sub standard product.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Sure you are entitled to your opinions, but you are not entitled to your facts, which includes ideas and concepts that are unique and that requires specialized education and experience. Problematic for you is when you said 'Seems to me'. Serious people take that phrase -- seriously. The phrase automatically implies TO THE AUDIENCE that the speaker have at least conceptual understanding, if not detailed technical experience, of the subject at hand. Are you saying you have that level of understanding?

So let us see what you got, shall we?

"Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS), that automatically pulls the plane's nose down if data suggests it is at risk."

Why -- philosophically speaking -- would we want to 'nose down' the aircraft if certain data 'suggests' the aircraft is at risk? What kind of data? What kind of risk?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/10/africa/ethiopian-airlines-crash-boeing-max-8-intl/index.html



Why does the MCAS engage at take-off or landing automatically? Seems to me like shoddy engineering. Engineers should be fired. This should have been fixed after the first crash

2nd crash of the same model in a year. Do any of our airlines operate this model?

AD HOMINEM again. Sigh; and you are a PROFESSIONAL.



You should be asking Boeing engineers as to why the MCAS pulls down a plane on take-off?


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...pilot-fought-to-keep-plane-in-air-says-report

Gambit is right. Pulling Nose down during TO is ok thing to do, to gain more airspeed. Speed based controll maintains airspeed by tuning the pitch or angle-of-attack of the a/c while Takeoff (TO) and keeping thrust mostly unchanged, as its more efficient than thrust based speed control.
A nose pull down may also be avoid a stall condition (which every aircraft is susceptible) - the data would be from a stall warning indicator of some kind, either through an annunciation on the PFD and/or voice alerts.

FYI. TO and Landing are the most dangerous phases in a flight.

 

[oprih]

When will us and canada jail the boeing executives, those people are guilty of killing hundreds of people with their murican-made junks.